Will Islam survive ISIS murdering Christians?

[BobRyan]

im interested have any famous or prominent Muslims come out and criticized isis publicly because i cant think of one to hand ,that speaks volumes ,

How can Muslims keep silence and not be viewed as complicit?

But what they will do is remain silent during atrocity - then when it is all over and some Christian Country has to come in and fix it for them - they will say it would be mean-spirited to view Islam in a negative light in view of the facts of history so sadly played out before the entire world.

And they will find sympathy among those who pay little or no attention to the details of history. Those who view it as "mean spirited" to learn from the lessons of history.

We are living through another period of "Amnesia" for liberals - for hollywood - for the politically correct. At time "soon to be forgotten" and soon to be declared "Taboo" to mention. Banned from the news, banned from any liberal reconstruction of the current atrocities.

But be that as it may - there is a billion muslims maybe a few of them will wake up at this time. Christians should be ready to offer an alternative to beheading children, to exterminating heretics and infidels "in a nice way".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[SolomonVII]

Is it possible that Muslims may get fed up with Islam when they view the atrocities of ISIS in Iraq? Or is there "no limit" to atrocities that they will accept in the name of Islam?

What if they renounce Islam in protest against the atrocities of ISIS?

What if they become Christians in disgust over those atrocities?

Is that possible?

in Christ,

Bob

I think it is very possible that Islam is a religion that is a thousand miles wide and a thousand miles long, and an inch deep.

There has to come a point where good people with a passion for God will have to become disgusted with what is being done in the name of God through their fellow coreligionists.

 

[SolomonVII]

from its inception after the Civil War until at least the 1970's the KKK portrayed itself as standing up for Southern Culture and Protestant Values

did the actions of this horrible terrorist group turn people away from Christianity as a whole?

Yes.
This, and other crimes against humanity done in the name of Christianity has turned many away from Christianity.

Atheism and agnosticism is so huge among us that it is fair to say we live in a post-Christian society.

 

[Albion]

from its inception after the Civil War until at least the 1970's the KKK portrayed itself as standing up for Southern Culture and Protestant Values

did the actions of this horrible terrorist group turn people away from Christianity as a whole?

The KKK never had the impact of ISIS, even though ISIS is new on the scene and still too young for us to know its potential. Also, you're speaking of at least three separate (and differently named) Klan organizations at different times during the course of the time period mentioned, so of course that analysis is not going to be accurate...and it's not.

 

[Rhamiel]

Yes.
This, and other crimes against humanity done in the name of Christianity has turned many away from Christianity.

Atheism and agnosticism is so huge among us that it is fair to say we live in a post-Christian society.

hmmmm

I am not sure if that is true....

Atheists like to bring up the darker parts of Christian history, but I am not so sure if that is really why they left Christianity or if it is just retroactive justifications

 

[SolomonVII]

hmmmm

I am not sure if that is true....

Atheists like to bring up the darker parts of Christian history, but I am not so sure if that is really why they left Christianity or if it is just retroactive justifications

What would be true for you then?
If the pope called for another Alibigensian type crusade against the apostates of, say, Sweden, resulting in the genocidal erasing of Lutherans there, and the return of Catholicism to Sweden, would you feel at home in your church still?

 

[Rhamiel]

What would be true for you then?
If the pope called for another Alibigensian type crusade against the apostates of, say, Sweden, resulting in the genocidal erasing of Lutherans there, and the return of Catholicism to Sweden, would you feel at home in your church still?

lol that seems kind of outrageous and very unlikely

I could not really see Pope Francis doing such a thing

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by SolomonVII

Yes.
This, and other crimes against humanity done in the name of Christianity has turned many away from Christianity.

Atheism and agnosticism is so huge among us that it is fair to say we live in a post-Christian society.
​

hmmmm

I am not sure if that is true....

Atheists like to bring up the darker parts of Christian history, but I am not so sure if that is really why they left Christianity or if it is just retroactive justifications

Not any more than a lot of Christians do.

They struggle with a lot of issues as far as the so called OT "genocides" God allowed, OECvsYEC, Evolution, Trinity and others.


.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

How can Muslims keep silence and not be viewed as complicit?

But what they will do is remain silent during atrocity - then when it is all over and some Christian Country has to come in and fix it for them - they will say it would be mean-spirited to view Islam in a negative light in view of the facts of history so sadly played out before the entire world.

And they will find sympathy among those who pay little or no attention to the details of history. Those who view it as "mean spirited" to learn from the lessons of history.

We are living through another period of "Amnesia" for liberals - for hollywood - for the politically correct. At time "soon to be forgotten" and soon to be declared "Taboo" to mention. Banned from the news, banned from any liberal reconstruction of the current atrocities.

But be that as it may - there is a billion muslims maybe a few of them will wake up at this time. Christians should be ready to offer an alternative to beheading children, to exterminating heretics and infidels "in a nice way".

in Christ,

Bob

The truth is they are not all silent. The truth is the Pope kind of asked that very question when he said of those not condemning this, their religion will lose all credibility.
Who do you think is doing the real fighting against ISIL? Muslims. They are being killed by them as well.

I think this may be the wake up call for Muslims to join against mass murder.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Is it possible that Muslims may get fed up with Islam when they view the atrocities of ISIS in Iraq? Or is there "no limit" to atrocities that they will accept in the name of Islam?

What if they renounce Islam in protest against the atrocities of ISIS?

What if they become Christians in disgust over those atrocities?

Is that possible?

in Christ,

Bob

Why would they? There are plenty of reasons within Islam that a Muslim could give to condemn ISIS.

 

[SolomonVII]

lol that seems kind of outrageous and very unlikely

I could not really see Pope Francis doing such a thing

It has happened before so it is not that outrageous.
Every ten years or so, there is another pope.
So the question remains...

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

What would be true for you then?

Even if he said yes, I think there's a difference between being driven away from the church for crimes committed six hundred years ago and being driven away from the church for crimes being committed in the present.

Claiming to have left the church because of the Albigensian Crusade smacks of post-facto justification.

Claiming to have left the church because of American and Irish clerical abuse scandals sounds much more likely.

 

[SolomonVII]

Even if he said yes, I think there's a difference between being driven away from the church for crimes committed six hundred years ago and being driven away from the church for crimes being committed in the present.

Claiming to have left the church because of the Albigensian Crusade smacks of post-facto justification.

Claiming to have left the church because of American and Irish clerical abuse scandals sounds much more likely.

My counter-factual is not meant to be six hundred years ago.
The reason why the Alibigensian Crusade is so pertinent is that it involves the whole of Western Christianity. It shows the scope of what is happening in Islam today, where whole countries are falling under oppressive and even murderous Islamist governments, from ISIS to Hamas, to the Iranians and the Saudis.
The local example of the KKK was much too small for comparison.
But if the major force in Christianity TODAY was oppressive and genocidal, would that drive you away from being a member of that kind of church?

It would drive me away. I would loathe to be known by such fruits.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

They are speaking out, the problem is that it isn't news worthy enough for us to be shown on the news.

The American Muslim (TAM)

 

[Targaryen]

They are speaking out, the problem is that it isn't news worthy enough for us to be shown on the news.

The American Muslim (TAM)

Radicalization makes for better TV ratings though man.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Well, idiots tend to speak louder than smart folk because it is the only way people will hear their ignorance. This transcends all religions or lack thereof.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Radicalization makes for better TV ratings though man.

Don Henley - Dirty Laundry - YouTube

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

My counter-factual is not meant to be six hundred years ago.
The reason why the Alibigensian Crusade is so pertinent is that it involves the whole of Western Christianity. It shows the scope of what is happening in Islam today, where whole countries are falling under oppressive and even murderous Islamist governments, from ISIS to Hamas, to the Iranians and the Saudis.
The local example of the KKK was much too small for comparison.
But if the major force in Christianity TODAY was oppressive and genocidal, would that drive you away from being a member of that kind of church?

It would drive me away. I would loathe to be known by such fruits.

Considering that only 10% of Muslims support the Salafi interpretation of Islam and its manifestation in organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, and ISIS- a scary thought politically because that's still a hundred million people- I think a parallel within Christianity would greatly disturb me, but not enough to cause me to abandon my church altogether. Unless, of course, it was specifically my church and my church officially supported such actions, in which case, yes, probably.

 

[SolomonVII]

Considering that only 10% of Muslims support the Salafi interpretation of Islam and its manifestation in organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, and ISIS- a scary thought politically because that's still a hundred million people- I think a parallel within Christianity would greatly disturb me, but not enough to cause me to abandon my church altogether. Unless, of course, it was specifically my church and my church officially supported such actions, in which case, yes, probably.

Given that those particularly blood thirsty ISIS Islamists are on the cusp of power, others like the Ayatollahs of Iran and the religious police of Saudi Arabia have swept into power through popular revolution, the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas have risen to power through popular vote, there is a general trend here that is disturbing indeed.

There is no direct comparison between Church authority, and the forms of religious authority in Islam, but it is a fair question if there is going to be some point when good-hearted Muslims will turn away in disgust at what is happening in their religion.

Muslims are modern people just like us, and vast swaths of their religion is on the equivalent of an Albigensian Crusade against the world, not 600 years ago, when sensitivities were different, but here and now.

It is an interesting question that the OP asks. Where are the 90% of Muslims who have good hearts going to go, if and when ISIS and like-minded forms of Islam come into fuller and fuller power?

 

[BobRyan]

What would be true for you then?
If the pope called for another Alibigensian type crusade against the apostates of, say, Sweden, resulting in the genocidal erasing of Lutherans there, and the return of Catholicism to Sweden, would you feel at home in your church still?

EWTN's Dr. Carroll made the statement that Billy Graham would have been burned at the stake in the RCC's dark ages - if he taught then - what he taught in the 20th century.


And Lateran IV calling for the extermination of heretics (see Fordham translation) -- is deemed to this very day "infallible".

So then the "loophole" that is left there - is not supposed to be noticed because "of course nobody would think to use it". So then why be so sensitive about protecting that open door? Why insist that it is still infallible?

in Christ,

Bob