Paul, the False Apostle: Rebuttal of Point 3

[IchoozJC]

Der Alter,

You said, You just told on yourself. You act like your some kind of expert on Scripture but you haven't any real Education in Scripture at all. Every college freshman in Theology knows who Wellhausen is. So don't pretend to be an expert with me! You have shown yourself to me. To you I say come back when you have your Masters of Theology and are working on your Dr. degree and we will discuss Scripture. You haven't got any formal education in Theology at all. Expert indeed. Ha. As to the rest of your silly comments and accusations I don't have to even address them because they are too stupid to even answer. Like I said come back when your working on your Dr.'s and we will discuss them!

To all my friends out there who are sincere students of the Bible I commend you. I have learned much from those without formal education as I like yourselves am teachable. It doesn't require a degree to discuss Biblical matters. But your not passing yourselves off as an expert either. So to you Thank you.

The documentary hypothesis (DH), sometimes called the Wellhausen hypothesis, proposes that the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) was derived from originally independent, parallel and complete narratives, which were subsequently combined into the current form by a series of redactors (editors). The number of these narratives is usually set at four, but this is not an essential part of the hypothesis.

The hypothesis was developed in the 18th and 19th centuries from the attempt to reconcile inconsistencies in the biblical text. By the end of the 19th century it was generally agreed that there were four main sources, combined into their final form by a series of redactors, R. These four sources came to be known as the Yahwist, or Jahwist, J (J being the German equivalent of the English letter Y); the Elohist, E; the Deuteronomist, D, (the name comes from the Book of Deuteronomy, D's contribution to the Torah); and the Priestly Writer, P.[1]

The contribution of Julius Wellhausen, a Christian theologian and Christian biblical scholar, was to order these sources chronologically as JEDP, giving them a coherent setting in a notional evolving religious history of Israel, which he saw as one of ever-increasing priestly power. Wellhausen's formulation was:

the Yahwist source (J) : hypothetically written c. 950 BCE in the southern Kingdom of Judah.
the Elohist source (E) : hypothetically written c. 850 BCE in the northern Kingdom of Israel.
the Deuteronomist (D) : hypothetically written c. 600 BCE in Jerusalem during a period of religious reform.
the Priestly source (P) : hypothetically written c. 500 BCE by Kohanim (Jewish priests) in exile in Babylon.
While the hypothesis has been increasingly challenged by other models, especially in the last part of the 20th century, its terminology and insights continue to provide the framework for modern theories on the composite nature and origins of the Torah[2] and Bible compilation in general.

And you don't want to credit the source that you copy/pasted from? Why? Because Wikipedia is a joke?

 

[TorahMan]

So, you just make things up as you go? Keep throwing until something sticks, eh?

I agree, Paul is like a sheet of glass. Its easy to see the truth in his teachings. Unlike the muddy waters of judaizers. Which law today should I struggle to obey? Maybe today I'll do better than yesterday and earn some more of God's favor? Nah, I'll just enter the rest and live by His Spirit.

[Staff Edit]

Do you even know what a Judaizer is? Let me inform you. According to Acts, it's someone who insists that a person has to be circumcised in order to get saved. It was a Jewish ploy to stop the gospel being taken to Gentiles. As you well know, I've never said anything here about circumcision, and I've also said more than once that a person's initial salvation is entirely works-free.

But I've also said that after a person is saved, they cannot fall back on the 'no-works' excuse to keep living in sin. That's what Jesus taught, but Paul taught against it. That's why he and I have parted company, and why I'm not afraid to highlight his dreadful behaviour and teachings.

[Staff Edit]

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter,

You deliberately misquoted me! You said; You are supposedly using my quote here, but you changed it! What I actually said was this. What kind of a man are you that you would deliberately misquote someone. It must have been done on purpose because you start the quote right but then you leave out the scripture which is the evidence and then you skip to the rest of my quote. This had to be on purpose! I'm going to go through everywhere that you quoted me and if I find any more I will post them here for all to see.

I deliberately misquoted nothing. When someone clicks the "quote" button to quote a post in a response it does not include quotes in the post. The scripture in the post I quoted were enclosed in quotes and were not included in my post. Please feel free to search any of my posts, you will not find anything deliberately deceptive. I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the forum rules and concentrate on the topic and refrain from personal attacks.

 

[The RedRose]

I agree, Paul is like a sheet of glass. Its easy to see the truth in his teachings. Unlike the muddy waters of judaizers. Which law today should I struggle to obey? Maybe today I'll do better than yesterday and earn some more of God's favor? Nah, I'll just enter the rest and live by His Spirit.

1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

RedRose

 

[IchoozJC]

1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

RedRose

Really? Is there ANY verse you can quote in context? Yes, in comparison, when we see Jesus we will see everything clearly. That does not mean that we can't be grounded and rooted in the simplicity that is in the gospel, today. God is not the author of confusion my friend. The twistianity I see in this thread coming from you anti-Paulians is another story.

 

[The RedRose]

You know the Lost Tribes like Benjamin weren't lost as much as they were punished for worshiping Baal and other idols. So really they lost themselves.

Judges 21:
15 And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that YHWH had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.

25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

RedRose

 

[The RedRose]

John 13
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another.


John 15:
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

14 Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

16 Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My Name, He may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.


18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


RedRose

 

[Sheraldo]

RedRose said:

John 13
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another.


John 15:
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

14 Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

AMEN!

 

[ananda]

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[Sheraldo]

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

A double AMEN!

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter,

If this is the case why didn't you insert the missing quote? Since your an expert on how things work.

It was not necessary. The absence of the scripture had no effect on my response. Which I repeat here.

You write a lot of stuff but you have not explained how you arrived at the transliteration Eashua or Yahshua? John 1:18 does not provide any evidence for the pronunciaton of the Hebrew יהושׁע. There is no such thing in Hebrew as a waw connecting agent. There is a waw conjunction and the waw consecutive. Who is Victor Alexander and what are his qualifications in Hebrew?

Here is the scripture which you quoted.

Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.​

If you think the omission of this verse affects my response, please show me how? I notice you quoted from Wiki which said the Documentary Hypothesis is sometimes known as the Wellhausen hypothesis. That means not always. I learned it as the Documentary Hyposthesis. And note it is still known as a hypothesis, i.e. not an established doctrine.

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter,

Again you misquote me! Where is the Scripture? If what you say is true about the quote button then it is your responsibility to make sure the quote is correct. I have a suggestion. Instead of using the quote button just copy and paste the text into the quote boxes. Simple easy and never any mistakes. Oh, but wait, you must know this already don't you. If not then use my suggestion.

It was not necessary to quote the scripture to clearly state my response. Whenever I think it is necessary I will take the extra steps to include embedded scripture quotations. If not WYSIWYG. Or you could simply quote the scripture without enclosing it in quotes.

 

[The RedRose]

Grow up Babes ... Brothers bickering is not Profitable ...

Matthew 7:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


RedRose

 

[Der Alte]

Grow up Babes ... Brothers bickering is not Profitable ...

RedRose

Is this what you call not arguing? Calling people babes and telling them to grow up?

Hi All,

I have decided to re-join this thread and read (and answer) very carefully because last time I must have made a dire mistake because I was accused of "arguing" -which is not in my character. I "thought" I was JUST asking questions?!! ...
RedRose

 

[The RedRose]

If the "baby" shoe fits - wear it

Soooo, I am "arguing" to get you guys to stop "arguing" ... ?!!

(((you twist my words)))

Hebrews 5:
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.


Hebrews 6:
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.


Bickering and arguing never got anyone anywhere ... but many of you continue to do it ... STOP IT !!!



RedRose

 

[JesusMartyr]

JesusMartyr,

You said, Yes that is absolutely correct! You don't see it but you are actually agreeing with me. This quote shows that Jesus' word are diamonds, something precious and valuable, a rare find. But it has been covered up with the rest of the New Testament, (Paul) which is the dung heap! Thanks for making my point!

I wasn't making your point. Jefferson was not a Christian, nor did He accept Christ as the Messiah. He was a brilliant politician, but in spiritual affairs, he was a blithering idiot. That was the point, I thought it was obvious...

As Paul brings forth the Word of God Perfectly, in revealing to us all that the Holy Spirit of Christ reveals, He is a proven apostle. Look at Ephesians for instance. We would have no idea that we who were "estranged" from God in the divorce he gave Israel, are now the ISRAEL BRIDE MARRIED to Jesus resurrected, and bringing fruitfully bringing forth Sons of God, Christ in us. No other Apostle goes into such detail in prophecy fulfilled.
No other Apostle had the background of Phariseeism to be equipped to bring forth these most beautiful prophecies and the showing of their fulfillment in the Bride of Christ, the Mother of us all.

The only folk so far I see who reject Paul, also reject Jesus. The one and same Word of God is Jesus, also spoken perfectly by Paul.

No, it is something else, a rebellious spirit can only be it. What a tremendous loss for that soul!

 

[The RedRose]

There will always be arguments when people who hate Gods word come on a Christian website and slander Apostles of God who are responsible for relaying to us the Word of God. You wanna see arguments stop? Then you and all the TS'ers can go back to your den and loath God's word all by yourselves. Your ministry of hate has been rejected here. Move on.

I can only speak for myself but I LOVE the WORD of YHWH

ALL OF IT !!! The Scriptures and the Word written in Red !!!

The Gospels (in black) and the letters I am a little more choosey with because I realize they were written by "man" and not infallible ... "men" come to their own conclusions ... but with the Helper and Teacher, His Holy Spirit, I can also make "heads and tails" of those, too ... HalleluYAH

RedRose

 

[JesusMartyr]

I can only speak for myself but I LOVE the WORD of YHWH

ALL OF IT !!! The Scriptures and the Word written in Red !!!

The Gospels (in black) and the letters I am a little more choosey with because I realize they were written by "man" and not infallible ... "men" come to their own conclusions ... but with the Helper and Teacher , His Holy Spirit, I can also make "heads and tails" of those, too ... HalleluYAH

RedRose

hAHaaAA!

The black and red letters were chosen by man.


Here is what I believe;

(2Ti 3:14) But abide thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

(2Ti 3:15) and that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

(2Ti 3:16) Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness:

(2Ti 3:17) that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.

So ALL SCRIPTURES ARE INSPIRED OF GOD. Not just the red ones lol.

 

[The RedRose]

Look at Ephesians for instance. We would have no idea that we who were "estranged" from God in the divorce he gave Israel, are now the ISRAEL BRIDE MARRIED to Jesus resurrected, and bringing fruitfully bringing forth Sons of God, Christ in us. No other Apostle goes into such detail in prophecy fulfilled.
No other Apostle had the background of Phariseeism to be equipped to bring forth these most beautiful prophecies and the showing of their fulfillment in the Bride of Christ, the Mother of us all.

Hosea 2:
7 ... then shall she say, "I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now."

14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.

19 And I will betroth thee unto Me for ever ...

Hosea 4:
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge ...

"... the Mother of us all ..."

((who is this?))


RedRose

 

[The RedRose]

hAHaaAA!

The black and red letters were chosen by man.


Here is what I believe;

(2Ti 3:14) But abide thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

(2Ti 3:15) and that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings (Scripture) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

(2Ti 3:16) Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness:

(2Ti 3:17) that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good "work". (( oh, my -the word "work" ...)

So ALL SCRIPTURES ARE INSPIRED OF GOD. Not just the red ones lol.

<staff edit>
The Words of Yahshua were written in red by "man" (not that we couldn't have went through and picked them out for ourselves ... ) Yes, from Timothy's youth he knew the sacred writing - Scriptures - which was the OT only ... that can be used for reproof and correction of the fallible "man" ...

RedRose