Questions for Muslims

[andy b]

where Islam has slipped up is having its leaders called mullahs because you can add mad before it and they automatically become mad mullah .....nothing really goes before say priest or father or vicar

 

[WoodrowX2]

Good words. I honestly think they are plain-old uneducated or at least ill-educated in their life, religion and even politically. Their logic is bizzare, their emotional maturity adolescent and their world-view strangely cloistered.

How do you think Muslims can respond effectively?

Also, it's been posited here before, but does Islam need a Reformation movement?

Reformation is not only not needed, it is an impossibility.

To reform something you have to have an organized something to reform.

The Madhabs can be adapted and modified to some degree. The Hanafi Madhab is the most adaptable and although it is the largest Madhab, only about 30% of the world's Muslims follow it.

It is a bit difficult to figure out how to contain terrorists without harming mostly innocents.

It is easy to list what needs to be done:

1. Elimination of corrupt government leaders

2. Education of the populace

3. Trained Imams, that actually follow Islam, that will be accepted by local Mosques.

4. Implementation of actual Sharia based upon one of the Accepted Madhabs.

Easy to write out but I have no idea as to how to implement them. Much of it will be simply getting the Majority to give up their comforts and choose to be Imams and teachers.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Maybe your description is correct in theory, but in practice there appear to be definite branches of Islam, religious degrees, leaders, laws, etc. Furthermore Islam often exists in nations with Islamic governments. The mosques can be nominally independent because the Islamic government provides the religious hierarchy.

Take a non-denominational congregational Christian church. Theoretically such a church is just a group of individuals gathering for fellowship, but in practice that church is part of an informal denomination with informal leadership - famous theologians, evangelists, etc.

IMO the lack of formal standards and government can facilitate gross misconduct by the local priests/imams/pastors. But I think Islam actually does have formal standards and government in practice. Part of this may be due to the Quran. I haven't read the Quran, but it seems to present the beliefs of Islam unambiguously so that individual interpretations should be fairly consistent. By comparison Christian beliefs come from the parables of Jesus and some church correspondence, and the interpretations can vary more.

In an actual Islamic Nation the Mosques would be built by the state and the Imams would be Civil Service appointments with salaries paid for by the State. to some extent this is true in Saudi and Iran.

`However most of us do not live in an Islamic Nation and often as a minority in the Nations we live in.

The result being we build our own Mosques and the Imam is often simply the oldest man in the community.

Very often the Imam is not paid and is responsible for all expenses related to the Mosque.

As at one time or another virtually ever male Muslim will end up serving as an Imam we do not place the sort of reverence a Christian places on a Priest, Minister, Pastor. Also we have no ordained clergy. Imams are simply a local guy willing to accept the responsibilities.

There is very little preaching done. The Prayers except for Friday Jummat are very much identical world wide.

What we do have are very fixed 5 Daily obligatory Prayers that are unchangable. The only choice the Imam has is what he desires to recite during each rakkat. He can select any Surah from Juz 30 of a minimum of 9 consecutive ayyat from any other Surat.

There is very little in terms of preaching except on Friday Jummah the Imam can give a sermon prior to the sound of the Athan (call to prayer) that is typically limited to local Issues

Just speaking of the US currently there are about 3,100 Mosques in the US with 700 Imams. Usually a Mosque will have at least 5 different Imams, one for each of the 5 daily prayers. So 700 Imams is actually only about enough for 150 Mosques. Nearly every Prayer in a US Mosque is led by the oldest person present at prayer time.

The vast majority of US Mosques consist of one room in somebody's home. Usually about 10 people will be present at prayer time.

 

[cloudyday2]

In an actual Islamic Nation the Mosques would be built by the state and the Imams would be Civil Service appointments with salaries paid for by the State. to some extent this is true in Saudi and Iran.

`However most of us do not live in an Islamic Nation and often as a minority in the Nations we live in.

The result being we build our own Mosques and the Imam is often simply the oldest man in the community.

Very often the Imam is not paid and is responsible for all expenses related to the Mosque.

As at one time or another virtually ever male Muslim will end up serving as an Imam we do not place the sort of reverence a Christian places on a Priest, Minister, Pastor. Also we have no ordained clergy. Imams are simply a local guy willing to accept the responsibilities.

There is very little preaching done. The Prayers except for Friday Jummat are very much identical world wide.

What we do have are very fixed 5 Daily obligatory Prayers that are unchangable. The only choice the Imam has is what he desires to recite during each rakkat. He can select any Surah from Juz 30 of a minimum of 9 consecutive ayyat from any other Surat.

There is very little in terms of preaching except on Friday Jummah the Imam can give a sermon prior to the sound of the Athan (call to prayer) that is typically limited to local Issues

Just speaking of the US currently there are about 3,100 Mosques in the US with 700 Imams. Usually a Mosque will have at least 5 different Imams, one for each of the 5 daily prayers. So 700 Imams is actually only about enough for 150 Mosques. Nearly every Prayer in a US Mosque is led by the oldest person present at prayer time.

The vast majority of US Mosques consist of one room in somebody's home. Usually about 10 people will be present at prayer time.

Thanks, that's interesting. This is a bit off-topic, but here's a few easy questions for whoever feels like answering:

For the 5 daily prayers:
- can you choose the prayer or does everybody in a room say the same prayer?
- how long does it take typically?
- can you pray silently?
- are you required to prostate?
- how would a person working at McDonald's manage this?
- how is Friday different from the rest of the week?

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Thanks, that's interesting. This is a bit off-topic, but here's a few easy questions for whoever feels like answering:

For the 5 daily prayers:
- can you choose the prayer or does everybody in a room say the same prayer?

If we're praying independently, we can recite whichever verses of the Qur'aan we like after reciting Surah al-Faatihah (the opening chapter). If we're praying in a congregation, we follow the imaam in terms of the motions as well as listen to the Qur'aan being recited if it is one of those prayers where the verses are recited out loud. As for what is said silently during any of the prayers, that is largely based on what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said during his own prayers. But since this can vary, it is not necessary that everyone is saying the same thing in their prayers.

- how long does it take typically?

Depends. Usually the minimum is 5 minutes. Some people go up to 15-20 minutes (others still may pray for hours but I have yet to find someone who does that for 1 continuous prayer).

- can you pray silently?

Yes. In congregation, part of 3 of the prayers are said out loud while the other 2 are silent (except for phrases that go along with the motions).

- are you required to prostate?

Yes, unless physically impossible or other extenuating circumstances. For instance, a paralyzed person obviously does not have to prostrate.

- how would a person working at McDonald's manage this?

Probably would have to talk to one's boss. It's especially easy if the establishment allows smoke breaks.

- how is Friday different from the rest of the week?

It's the best day of the week.

According to various narrations of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), it was on a Friday Adam was created, on it he was admitted to Paradise and on it he was expelled from it and sent to the Earth, and on it he died. On it there is a time when a person does not ask Allaah for anything but He gives it to him, so long as he does not ask for anything haraam. On that day the Trumpet will be blown and on that day all of creation will swoon (i.e. the Day of Judgement will begin).

So a lot of big, important events happened/will happen on these days.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Thanks, that's interesting. This is a bit off-topic, but here's a few easy questions for whoever feels like answering:

For the 5 daily prayers:
- can you choose the prayer or does everybody in a room say the same prayer?
- how long does it take typically?
- can you pray silently?
- are you required to prostate?
- how would a person working at McDonald's manage this?
- how is Friday different from the rest of the week?

My Sister answered very well above.

But for clarity I want to add there are 2 words that translate into English as prayer.



DUA-a word that translates as prayer and is more like the Christian concept of prayer. However it can be not only our words but also our actions and thoughts. We do strive to make our entire life a prayer.

A dua can be said at anytime when we desire and in our language of preference. Duas can be our own words. typically they are words of praise to Allaah(swt), Asking for forgiveness, Asking for help, giving Thanks etc.

There are some that have become common and said frequently by many people. Here is a link to some of the most frequently said Duas

LINK

Salat- Which are our 5 Daily obligatory prayers. except for the Qur'an recititation they are the same world wide and must be said in Arabic. They are closer to a church service than what is commonly called a prayer in English.

Here is a typical Salah, Our morning Prayer Fajr

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuk6HgOH9yQ[/youtube]

 

[TG123]

One problem is there is a wide spread belief that if a Muslim does a horrendous act it is because of his religion.

That is as erroneous as saying that if a Christian commits a crime it is because of Christianity.

The first thing that needs to be done is to remove that misconception from all people. That is going to take an effort on the part of people who actually believe Islam encourages or teaches violence.

The majority of us are Peace loving and abide by the laws of the Nation we live in.

Since the non-Muslim world seems to be the experts on how Islam teaches violence and terrorism. Perhaps someone could point to a specific Madrassa that is known to produce Terrorists?

The accusations are usually vague and filled with comments like "Islam Teaches" "They Say" "They are Taught" "Islam is Violent" etc. Yet, we never hear "where they were taught", "Who was their teacher" etc

There are many accusation thrown at us, yet never any specific problem identified. Always vague comments like "The Qur'an teaches violence" and than take a line out of context and offer it as "proof". When pointed out they are reading it out of context the answer becomes "A terrorist COULD think it is a command."

The problem is the media and ill-informed people need to stop spreading misinformation and accusations that "Islam teaches terrorism."

Terrorists are not acting because they are Muslim, they are acting because they are terrorists.

Once that message is understood it might be possible for the world to finally comprehend The vast majority of Muslims, like all people, are not Terrorists.

So true.

 

[TG123]

Below is a list of five terrorist training bases in the United States of America. The terrorist leaders, who claim to be 'Christian' presidents, allow thousands of young men and women to go through these centers of radicalization, where they learn to shoot weapons, drive armoured vehicles, and are indoctrinated to be prepared to go to war at a moment's notice, where their terrorist leaders in the White House and Congress send them.

Army Basic Training: Location of Basic Training Posts

There are other terrorist bases, where others are taught to kill from the air and the sea. The terrorist trainers who run these camps hire Muslim and Christian and Jewish clerics, to lie to their trainees and tell them that they are following their religions even as they invade other nations, so they can accomplish the political ambitions of their masters in Washington.

Where is the outcry from Christian Americans, against the presidents who allow these terrorist training camps to exist?

 

[wn123455]

Below is a list of five terrorist training bases in the United States of America. The terrorist leaders, who claim to be 'Christian' presidents, allow thousands of young men and women to go through these centers of radicalization, where they learn to shoot weapons, drive armoured vehicles, and are indoctrinated to be prepared to go to war at a moment's notice, where their terrorist leaders in the White House and Congress send them.

Army Basic Training: Location of Basic Training Posts

There are other terrorist bases, where others are taught to kill from the air and the sea. The terrorist trainers who run these camps hire Muslim and Christian and Jewish clerics, to lie to their trainees and tell them that they are following their religions even as they invade other nations, so they can accomplish the political ambitions of their masters in Washington.

Where is the outcry from Christian Americans, against the presidents who allow these terrorist training camps to exist?

Where is the outcry from muslims for the occupation and colonization of the mostly non-muslim West Papua by the muslim majority indonesia? Where is the outcry from muslims for the occupation and colonization of a part of the mostly non-muslim Cyprus that is occupied and colonized by the muslim majority turkey?

Papua conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cyprus dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cloudyday2]

If we're praying independently, we can recite whichever verses of the Qur'aan we like after reciting Surah al-Faatihah (the opening chapter). If we're praying in a congregation, we follow the imaam in terms of the motions as well as listen to the Qur'aan being recited if it is one of those prayers where the verses are recited out loud. As for what is said silently during any of the prayers, that is largely based on what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said during his own prayers. But since this can vary, it is not necessary that everyone is saying the same thing in their prayers.

Depends. Usually the minimum is 5 minutes. Some people go up to 15-20 minutes (others still may pray for hours but I have yet to find someone who does that for 1 continuous prayer).

Yes. In congregation, part of 3 of the prayers are said out loud while the other 2 are silent (except for phrases that go along with the motions).

Yes, unless physically impossible or other extenuating circumstances. For instance, a paralyzed person obviously does not have to prostrate.

Probably would have to talk to one's boss. It's especially easy if the establishment allows smoke breaks.

It's the best day of the week.

According to various narrations of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), it was on a Friday Adam was created, on it he was admitted to Paradise and on it he was expelled from it and sent to the Earth, and on it he died. On it there is a time when a person does not ask Allaah for anything but He gives it to him, so long as he does not ask for anything haraam. On that day the Trumpet will be blown and on that day all of creation will swoon (i.e. the Day of Judgement will begin).

So a lot of big, important events happened/will happen on these days.

Thanks.

One question I forgot to ask is: must the prayers be performed at specific times of day? Taking McDonald's as an example, I'm sure there would be break periods but I'm not sure where a person would find the privacy for prayer. So in that case can the person defer the prayers until after work?

 

[cloudyday2]

My Sister answered very well above.

But for clarity I want to add there are 2 words that translate into English as prayer.



DUA-a word that translates as prayer and is more like the Christian concept of prayer. However it can be not only our words but also our actions and thoughts. We do strive to make our entire life a prayer.

A dua can be said at anytime when we desire and in our language of preference. Duas can be our own words. typically they are words of praise to Allaah(swt), Asking for forgiveness, Asking for help, giving Thanks etc.

There are some that have become common and said frequently by many people. Here is a link to some of the most frequently said Duas

LINK

Salat- Which are our 5 Daily obligatory prayers. except for the Qur'an recititation they are the same world wide and must be said in Arabic. They are closer to a church service than what is commonly called a prayer in English.

Here is a typical Salah, Our morning Prayer Fajr
...

O.k. that gives me a better idea how the prayers work. There was a picture in the wikipedia article for Islam that I will try to link. The people praying seem to be doing different things. Some are standing, One person is sitting. They don't seem to be synchronized. Maybe the artist took liberties with the truth to make the composition more interesting?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prayer_in_Cairo_1865.jpg

 

[WoodrowX2]

O.k. that gives me a better idea how the prayers work. There was a picture in the wikipedia article for Islam that I will try to link. The people praying seem to be doing different things. Some are standing, One person is sitting. They don't seem to be synchronized. Maybe the artist took liberties with the truth to make the composition more interesting?

Filerayer in Cairo 1865.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is most likely after the end of the salat. some may be making up missed prayers others could be saying personal Duas etc. But whatever it is not one of the 5 obligatory prayers. being done. As all would be doing the same things if it were one of the 5 obligatory prayers.

Being outside is very typical. Most of us will pray outside the Mosque if it is not raining. Usually those closest to the Mosque can hear the Imam and can stay synchronized. the others simply follow what those closest to the Mosque are doing.

 

[ContraMundum]

Below is a list of five terrorist training bases in the United States of America. The terrorist leaders, who claim to be 'Christian' presidents, allow thousands of young men and women to go through these centers of radicalization, where they learn to shoot weapons, drive armoured vehicles, and are indoctrinated to be prepared to go to war at a moment's notice, where their terrorist leaders in the White House and Congress send them.

Army Basic Training: Location of Basic Training Posts

There are other terrorist bases, where others are taught to kill from the air and the sea. The terrorist trainers who run these camps hire Muslim and Christian and Jewish clerics, to lie to their trainees and tell them that they are following their religions even as they invade other nations, so they can accomplish the political ambitions of their masters in Washington.

Where is the outcry from Christian Americans, against the presidents who allow these terrorist training camps to exist?

Goodness gracious. Settle down. There is no outcry because there is no terrorism resulting from it, and until it does, your hysteria seems pretty fringe. Every nation has an army, including yours.

 

[ContraMundum]

In an actual Islamic Nation the Mosques would be built by the state and the Imams would be Civil Service appointments with salaries paid for by the State. to some extent this is true in Saudi and Iran.

`However most of us do not live in an Islamic Nation and often as a minority in the Nations we live in.

The result being we build our own Mosques and the Imam is often simply the oldest man in the community.

Very often the Imam is not paid and is responsible for all expenses related to the Mosque.

As at one time or another virtually ever male Muslim will end up serving as an Imam we do not place the sort of reverence a Christian places on a Priest, Minister, Pastor. Also we have no ordained clergy. Imams are simply a local guy willing to accept the responsibilities.

There is very little preaching done. The Prayers except for Friday Jummat are very much identical world wide.

What we do have are very fixed 5 Daily obligatory Prayers that are unchangable. The only choice the Imam has is what he desires to recite during each rakkat. He can select any Surah from Juz 30 of a minimum of 9 consecutive ayyat from any other Surat.

There is very little in terms of preaching except on Friday Jummah the Imam can give a sermon prior to the sound of the Athan (call to prayer) that is typically limited to local Issues

Just speaking of the US currently there are about 3,100 Mosques in the US with 700 Imams. Usually a Mosque will have at least 5 different Imams, one for each of the 5 daily prayers. So 700 Imams is actually only about enough for 150 Mosques. Nearly every Prayer in a US Mosque is led by the oldest person present at prayer time.

The vast majority of US Mosques consist of one room in somebody's home. Usually about 10 people will be present at prayer time.

Interesting. Where I live we have a couple of "home" mosques nearby but we have mainly visible mosques with reasonably large congregations. They tend to preach on Friday nights and run special events as well.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Interesting. Where I live we have a couple of "home" mosques nearby but we have mainly visible mosques with reasonably large congregations. They tend to preach on Friday nights and run special events as well.

Yes the Friday Jummah is about the only time there is any "Preaching" The preaching is supposed to first cover local concerns and if none Islam in general.

There probably are more "home" Mosques than what you suspect. It is rare for a city to have sufficient Large Mosques to house the entire Muslim population of a City. they are expensive to upkeep and usually do not generate any income

Using Fago as an example there is one Mosque, it can hold about 400 people. But the immediate area of West Fargo. Fargo and Moorhead have an approximate Muslim population of 4,000 there are only 4 buildings actually dedicated to be a Mosqur in North Dakota, Fargo has the Largest. the smallest is in Ross and can hold 8 people. the other 2 can hold somewhere between 20-50, but there are about 8,000 Muslims in the state.

 

[ContraMundum]

Yes the Friday Jummah is about the only time there is any "Preaching" The preaching is supposed to first cover local concerns and if none Islam in general.

When I was in seminary we had a visit to a mosque as part of our learning. I didn't go but the guys that did came back saying they heard a total hellfire and brimstone type sermon from the guy at the front. I was surprised by that report actually.

There probably are more "home" Mosques than what you suspect. It is rare for a city to have sufficient Large Mosques to house the entire Muslim population of a City. they are expensive to upkeep and usually do not generate any income.

The major mosques here are loaded. Piles of money, wealthy benefactors (largely from overseas) and plenty of adherents. The few "home" ones I know of tend to be very much friends and family outfits or too nutty for the mainstream (I know only of one such group who are not very nice)

Using Fago as an example there is one Mosque, it can hold about 400 people. But the immediate area of West Fargo. Fargo and Moorhead have an approximate Muslim population of 4,000 there are only 4 buildings actually dedicated to be a Mosqur in North Dakota, Fargo has the Largest. the smallest is in Ross and can hold 8 people. the other 2 can hold somewhere between 20-50, but there are about 8,000 Muslims in the state.

Would that be mainly immigrant Muslims or local converts?

 

[WoodrowX2]

When I was in seminary we had a visit to a mosque as part of our learning. I didn't go but the guys that did came back saying they heard a total hellfire and brimstone type sermon from the guy at the front. I was surprised by that report actually.

There probably are more "home" Mosques than what you suspect. It is rare for a city to have sufficient Large Mosques to house the entire Muslim population of a City. they are expensive to upkeep and usually do not generate any income.

The major mosques here are loaded. Piles of money, wealthy benefactors (largely from overseas) and plenty of adherents. The few "home" ones I know of tend to be very much friends and family outfits or too nutty for the mainstream (I know only of one such group who are not very nice)



Would that be mainly immigrant Muslims or local converts?

For the State there are about 4000 recent immigrants, by recent within the last 20 years. the other 4000 are mostly the descendents of Muslims that settled here before Statehood and in the first few years of Statehood. Many came and opened trading posts, started mink ranches or bought land and became farmers. About 1/3 of the Halal meat produced in the US is produced here on Muslim owned farms.

There are also a few Lithuanian Tatars whose families settled here before WW1

Most of the "Oldline" Muslims are sort of invisible. They do not practice openly and have adopted Western sounding names. for the Most part they say their prayers at home. You also have some Native American families that converted to Islam over 100 years ago.

As for recent converts to Islam from the Christian population they are either very few, or keep it hidden because of family pressure.

 

[ContraMundum]

For the State there are about 4000 recent immigrants, by recent within the last 20 years. the other 4000 are mostly the descendents of Muslims that settled here before Statehood and in the first few years of Statehood. Many came and opened trading posts, started mink ranches or bought land and became farmers. About 1/3 of the Halal meat produced in the US is produced here on Muslim owned farms.

There are also a few Lithuanian Tatars whose families settled here before WW1

Most of the "Oldline" Muslims are sort of invisible. They do not practice openly and have adopted Western sounding names. for the Most part they say their prayers at home. You also have some Native American families that converted to Islam over 100 years ago.

As for recent converts to Islam from the Christian population they are either very few, or keep it hidden because of family pressure.

Interesting. If I may say it reads fairly typical of younger nations and territories with a largely immigrant population. Not much different to my part of the world.

 

[wn123455]

When I was in seminary we had a visit to a mosque as part of our learning. I didn't go but the guys that did came back saying they heard a total hellfire and brimstone type sermon from the guy at the front. I was surprised by that report actually.

There probably are more "home" Mosques than what you suspect. It is rare for a city to have sufficient Large Mosques to house the entire Muslim population of a City. they are expensive to upkeep and usually do not generate any income.

For the State there are about 4000 recent immigrants, by recent within the last 20 years. the other 4000 are mostly the descendents of Muslims that settled here before Statehood and in the first few years of Statehood. Many came and opened trading posts, started mink ranches or bought land and became farmers. About 1/3 of the Halal meat produced in the US is produced here on Muslim owned farms.

There are also a few Lithuanian Tatars whose families settled here before WW1

Most of the "Oldline" Muslims are sort of invisible. They do not practice openly and have adopted Western sounding names. for the Most part they say their prayers at home. You also have some Native American families that converted to Islam over 100 years ago.

As for recent converts to Islam from the Christian population they are either very few, or keep it hidden because of family pressure.

You seem to know a lot of muslims. Have any muslim you met treat you with suspicion because of your Jewish ancestry?

 

[WoodrowX2]

When I was in seminary we had a visit to a mosque as part of our learning. I didn't go but the guys that did came back saying they heard a total hellfire and brimstone type sermon from the guy at the front. I was surprised by that report actually.

You seem to know a lot of muslims. Have any muslim you met treat you with suspicion because of your Jewish ancestry?

One's ancestry does not upset most Muslims. It is permissible for a Muslim to Marry a Jew. There probably are a lot of Muslims with Jewish ancestors.

It is doubtful that any Muslim would have any concern as to who a person has as an ancestor.

No one has any concern.

Thank you for your concern about my ancestors. I have no reason to have any Shame about any of my Ancestors. My Great Grandmother was a very remarkable woman and although I never met her I have no reason to denounce her or to not love her she is part of my ancestry. Without her I would not have been born.