Saturday or Sunday Worship

[BobRyan]

To SDA's it is, because a majority of them believe and preach he rose on a Saturday

Where do you get that idea?

Why make stuff up??

Who is supposed to go for that? me??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

There is only one common theme that runs through every single important SDA doctrine, either overtly or subtly: Denigrating and Degrading the effect of the Resurrection, or denying the Divinity of Christ.

.

Story telling of that form might be the most effective form of discussion that some people are comfortable with -- but I prefer real life, actual facts.

Find one - and lets discuss it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Story telling of that form might be the most effective form of discussion that some people are comfortable with -- but I prefer real life, actual facts.

You asked for it, you got it.

The SDA Church has an OVERWHELMING history of denying the Divinity of Christ and belittling the effect of the Resurrection! For the first 100 years of its existence, it taught nothing but the extreme Arian heresy! Do you REALLY want me to post quotes from the founders? It is an extremely solid case. Here is just one:

"It is well known that the early Adventist leaders and founders were Arians, who denied the deity of Christ, and the Trinity. Their article "The Doctrine of the Trinity Among Adventists" by Gerhard Pfandi, of their Biblical Research Institute (referred to as "Trinity" henceforth) tells us on page 1:

"Two of the principal founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Joseph Bates and James White, were originally members of the Christian Connection Church which rejected the doctrine of the Trinity…Other prominent Adventists who spoke out against the Trinity were J.N. Loughborough, R.F. Cottrell, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith…"
These SDA leaders denied Jesus’ deity and the Trinity. Joseph Bates, raised in the Congregational Church, repudiated the Trinity doctrine upon joining the Christian Connection Church. Bates learned the Sabbath doctrine from Rachel Oakes, a Seventh-day Baptist; however, Bates did not accept the Seventh-day Baptist doctrine of the Trinity. So, early Adventists had more in common with the Shakers, who not only kept the Sabbath and had prophets, but also believed in Arianism. Only by the turn of the century did Adventism begin to move out of Arianism to espousing Jesus’ deity, and subsequently, the Trinity. This was hard to do in light of Ellen White’s statements, spanning over 50 years, upholding Arianism."
Did Ellen White teach ‘A Different God’?

Shall I continue? There are literally THOUSANDS of proofs of the SDA's non-Christian arguments against the Divinity of Christ! You should be ashamed and embarrassed to come onto a Christian website and peddle your non-Christian garbage!

At best, the SDA's position on the Divinity of Christ and the Trinity is only slightly different than the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's no wonder that the Millerite debacle spawned all manner of virulent anti-Christian cults! At least the Jehovah's Witnesses make no bones about their rejection of the Divinity of Christ. You have to give them that. If anything, the SDA position is FAR more noxious and FAR more deceitful. You have deceitfully covered noxious anti-Christian and anti-Resurrection cult junk with the thinnest veneer of Christian-sounding verbiage.

Your scripture sculpting of unrelated texts and partial texts is nothing more than a ruse to get real Christians to doubt their salvation. the SDA cult emphasizes the Sabbath as the central doctrine because they really DO believe that is the source of their Salvation. That has NOTHING to do with Christianity!

It's no war against the real Truth of Christianity. Its an argument against a plainly non-Christian counterfeit. That is why St. Paul argued so vehemently against the First Century SDA Church of his time: It was the Galatian heresy.

There is NO power over sin in the SDA Church's pathetic emphasis on the Mosaic Law. If there is one common theme in the Epistles of St. Paul, it is that the Real Deal gives people power over sin.

Your repetitive arguments for the Sabbath are just a ruse to get gullible Christians to divert themselves into a miserable cultish mental prison system. It's pretty easy to see that you NEVER discuss the Gospel and the Resurrection with anywhere NEAR the intensity that you push the Sabbath. It is plain the Sabbath is FAR AND AWAY more important to you than the Resurrection!

In fact, your emphasis on the Sabbath is pure and simple a thinly-disguised effort to get Christians to overlook the Resurrection. THAT is your REAL objection to Sunday Church and Easter Celebrations: On both of those days, Christians focus laser-like on the Resurrection, which is by FAR the most important fact in the Bible AND History. EVERYTHING else is in at best, 5000th place behind, if that. Christians simply cannot RESIST adoring their Savior on the day of his Resurrection! How could they not buckle at the knees and swoon as they think of their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and his brilliant victory over Death?

The Sabbath is not even a tiny blip on the radar screen of Christianity. It is of NO importance.

 

[from scratch]

The Sabbath belongs to "mankind" Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" and was "MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 -

And of course the Jews were part of "mankind" even in the OT as it turns out. This seems to surprise some people - apparently

Heb 8 says that the same Jer 31:31-33 "LAW of GOD" is "written on the heart and mind" even in the NT -- under the New Covenant. So then the lost remain at war with the Law of God (as Paul reminds us in Rom 8:6-8) but the saints are in harmony with it.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

But not all are shocked by this Bible truth. The following Sunday-promoting sources freely admit to it.



I don't need to "twist Is 66:23" into "truth" -- same goes for 1Cor 7:19.

All I do is state the obvious - the truth speaks for itself as even the following pro-SUNDAY sources will admit regarding this inconvenient Bible detail.

Still can't figure out how from or to mean on?

When considering who God was talking to in the giving of the Sabbath your MK 2:27 meaning is in total contradiction to the truth.

Just like LarryP2 says you by pass Jesus and the cross. I find the corss truel divides.

So tell you what - you can have my wages cause I don't want them. The free gift is much better and I love life.

 

[from scratch]

Where do you get that idea?

Why make stuff up??

Who is supposed to go for that? me??

in Christ,

Bob

I just happen to read the forums. No we don't believe you will ever accept anything besides your improvable agenda.

 

[from scratch]

Story telling of that form might be the most effective form of discussion that some people are comfortable with -- but I prefer real life, actual facts.

Find one - and lets discuss it.

in Christ,

Bob

The evidence is contrary to your statement.

 

[from scratch]

The SDA Church has an OVERWHELMING history of denying the Divinity of Christ and belittling the effect of the Resurrection! For the first 100 years of its existence, it taught nothing but the extreme Arian heresy! Do you REALLY want me to post quotes from the founders? It is an extremely solid case. Here is just one:

"It is well known that the early Adventist leaders and founders were Arians, who denied the deity of Christ, and the Trinity. Their article "The Doctrine of the Trinity Among Adventists" by Gerhard Pfandi, of their Biblical Research Institute (referred to as "Trinity" henceforth) tells us on page 1:

"Two of the principal founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Joseph Bates and James White, were originally members of the Christian Connection Church which rejected the doctrine of the Trinity…Other prominent Adventists who spoke out against the Trinity were J.N. Loughborough, R.F. Cottrell, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith…"
These SDA leaders denied Jesus’ deity and the Trinity. Joseph Bates, raised in the Congregational Church, repudiated the Trinity doctrine upon joining the Christian Connection Church. Bates learned the Sabbath doctrine from Rachel Oakes, a Seventh-day Baptist; however, Bates did not accept the Seventh-day Baptist doctrine of the Trinity. So, early Adventists had more in common with the Shakers, who not only kept the Sabbath and had prophets, but also believed in Arianism. Only by the turn of the century did Adventism begin to move out of Arianism to espousing Jesus’ deity, and subsequently, the Trinity. This was hard to do in light of Ellen White’s statements, spanning over 50 years, upholding Arianism."
Did Ellen White teach ‘A Different God’?

Shall I continue? There are literally THOUSANDS of proofs of the SDA's non-Christian arguments against the Divinity of Christ! You should be ashamed and embarrassed to come onto a Christian website and peddle your non-Christian garbage!

At best, the SDA's position on the Divinity of Christ and the Trinity is only slightly different than the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's no wonder that the Millerite debacle spawned all manner of virulent anti-Christian cults! At least the Jehovah's Witnesses make no bones about their rejection of the Divinity of Christ. You have to give them that. If anything, the SDA position is FAR more noxious and FAR more deceitful.

Your scripture sculpting of unrelated texts and partial texts is nothing more than a ruse to get real Christians to doubt their salvation. the SDA cult emphasizes the Sabbath as the central doctrine because they really DO believe that is the source of their Salvation. That has NOTHING to do with Christianity!

It's no war against the real Truth of Christianity. Its an argument against a plainly non-Christian counterfeit. That is why St. Paul argued so vehemently against the SDA Church of his time: The Galatian heresy.

There is NO power over sin in the SDA Church's pathetic emphasis on the Mosaic Law. If there is one common theme in the Epistles of St. Paul, it is that the Real Deal gives people power over sin.

Your repetitive arguments for the Sabbath are just a ruse to get gullible Christians to divert themselves into a miserable cultish system. It's pretty easy to see that you NEVER discuss the Gospel with anywhere NEAR the intensity that you push the Sabbath. It is plain the Sabbath is FAR AND AWAY more important to you than the Resurrection!

Most anyone with basic knowledge can see by reading the forum the SDA still believe and teach against the Trinity. My most favorite verse to show this is -

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

It covers both the Trinity and the law. The usual response is things like -

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

They imply with these passages that God the Father and God the Son are actually the same entity. They'll not consider anything else including the Book of the Law which say differently.

 

[LarryP2]

The Sabbath has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity. NOTHING!

It's almost as though they have some bizarre fetish about the Sabbath. I did a search on this site and could not find ONE example of BobRyan or maco talking about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. NOT ONE! And each has HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of examples of obsessively fixating on the Sabbath. I am convinced that is ONLY reason they talk so obsessively about the Sabbath: to denigrate and belittle the Resurrection. REAL Christian simply cannot RESIST celebrating the Resurrection on Resurrection Days (Easter and Sunday)

There is not question after my search that SDA is a vile, non-Christian cult that propounds a non-Christian scheme of Salvation by Sabbath Keeping and completely denounces both the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the World-Shattering effect of his Resurrection.

 

[LarryP2]

Here's a thread that is all too indicative of the Adventist depreciation of the Resurrection. It is a thread on the Sabbath in the "Traditional Adventism" forums:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2560580/

I tediously scrolled down through each and every single post and found just four mentions of either "Jesus" or the "Resurrection."

Over 600 posts.

One thing we can be assured of, the Sabbath emphatically does not focus one's mind on the precious savior and his resurrection. We can also be assured beyond all reasonable doubt that Sabbath Keeping has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

 

[psalms 91]

I am not SDA and I believe in the trinity but I also believe that God ordained the seventh day as His day and I do keep it. If you choose not to that is ok as well

 

[LarryP2]

I am not SDA and I believe in the trinity but I also believe that God ordained the seventh day as His day and I do keep it. If you choose not to that is ok as well

I have specifically and clearly mentioned Seventh Day Adventism on each and every single post I have made on the Sabbath question, and have just as clearly NOT mentioned any other Sabbatarian Christian organization. There are plenty of wonderful Sabbatarian Christian churches. I have no problem with them.

For one reason: You do not see non-SDA Christian Sabbatarians trolling non-stop through threads to snare gullible and Biblicaly-illiterate Christians to harvest for their cruel cult system of spiritual bondage.

In my opinion, Seventh Day Adventism is NOT a Sabbatarian Christian organization. The non-Christian cult denies the divinity of Christ (using deceitful Christian-sounding verbiage to disguise the sleight of hand); vastly diminishes the effect that the Resurrection has had on our hope and salvation; and promotes a system of Salvation by Works that leaves its followers in a perpetual state of guilt, anxiety and uncertainty about their Salvation (which is based on flawless Sabbath Keeping). And leaving the befuddled and deluded follower ripe for financial, emotional and mental exploitation.

That is NOT Christianity.

 

[psalms 91]

I have specifically and clearly mentioned Seventh Day Adventism on each and every single post I have made on the Sabbath question, and have just as clearly NOT mentioned any other Sabbatarian Christian organization. There are plenty of wonderful Sabbatarian Christian churches. I have no problem with them.

For one reason: You do not see non-SDA Christian Sabbatarians trolling non-stop through threads to snare gullible and Biblicaly-illiterate Christians to harvest for their cruel cult system of spiritual bondage.

In my opinion, Seventh Day Adventism is NOT a Sabbatarian Christian organization. The non-Christian cult denies the divinity of Christ (using deceitful Christian-sounding verbiage to disguise the sleight of hand); vastly diminishes the effect that the Resurrection has had on our hope and salvation; and promotes a system of Salvation by Works that leaves its followers in a perpetual state of guilt, anxiety and uncertainty about their Salvation (which is based on flawless Sabbath Keeping). And leaving the befuddled and deluded follower ripe for financial, emotional and mental exploitation.

That is NOT Christianity.

I totally agree about SDA

 

[LarryP2]

Seventh Day Adventism appropriated its Sabbath keeping doctrine from the Seventh Day Baptists, which are emphatically Trinitarian.

The SDAs then turned the Sabbath into their main method of Salvation, and rejected an orthodox Christian Trinity, teaching the same heretical Arianism junk that was overwhelmingly rejected at the First Council of Nicaea. Teaching Arianism is rock-solid, indisputable proof that SDA is a toxic, non-Christian cult.

They use the Sabbath as a devastating distraction from the Resurrection, which is the REAL reason they post practically non-stop on the Sabbath. The virtual absence of discussion of the Resurrection eliminates any hope of their poor, deluded victims of escaping from the vice-like spiritual prison of this cult.

And do so on a Christian Forum, when their fundamental doctrines are FAR from being Christian!

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

A small clean up was done. It is not okay to insult or mock others or to flame other groups!

Keep it civil

 

[from scratch]

I have specifically and clearly mentioned Seventh Day Adventism on each and every single post I have made on the Sabbath question, and have just as clearly NOT mentioned any other Sabbatarian Christian organization. There are plenty of wonderful Sabbatarian Christian churches. I have no problem with them.

For one reason: You do not see non-SDA Christian Sabbatarians trolling non-stop through threads to snare gullible and Biblicaly-illiterate Christians to harvest for their cruel cult system of spiritual bondage.

In my opinion, Seventh Day Adventism is NOT a Sabbatarian Christian organization. The non-Christian cult denies the divinity of Christ (using deceitful Christian-sounding verbiage to disguise the sleight of hand); vastly diminishes the effect that the Resurrection has had on our hope and salvation; and promotes a system of Salvation by Works that leaves its followers in a perpetual state of guilt, anxiety and uncertainty about their Salvation (which is based on flawless Sabbath Keeping). And leaving the befuddled and deluded follower ripe for financial, emotional and mental exploitation.

That is NOT Christianity.

All cults engage in this. The big 3 evangelizing cults are notorious for it. They use the same words Christians use but with different meanings.

 

[from scratch]

The Sabbath has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity. NOTHING!

It's almost as though they have some bizarre fetish about the Sabbath. I did a search on this site and could not find ONE example of BobRyan or maco talking about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. NOT ONE! And each has HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of examples of obsessively fixating on the Sabbath. I am convinced that is ONLY reason they talk so obsessively about the Sabbath: to denigrate and belittle the Resurrection. REAL Christian simply cannot RESIST celebrating the Resurrection on Resurrection Days (Easter and Sunday)

There is not question after my search that SDA is a vile, non-Christian cult that propounds a non-Christian scheme of Salvation by Sabbath Keeping and completely denounces both the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the World-Shattering effect of his Resurrection.

Their most spoken blessing is happy Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

Here's a thread that is all too indicative of the Adventist depreciation of the Resurrection. It is a thread on the Sabbath in the "Traditional Adventism" forums:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2560580/

I tediously scrolled down through each and every single post and found just four mentions of either "Jesus" or the "Resurrection."

Over 600 posts.

One thing we can be assured of, the Sabbath emphatically does not focus one's mind on the precious savior and his resurrection. We can also be assured beyond all reasonable doubt that Sabbath Keeping has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

Interesting! And I agree.

 

[BobRyan]

I have specifically and clearly mentioned Seventh Day Adventism on each and every single post I have made on the Sabbath question, .

Now that is a fact that cannot be refuted.

in fact in you name them even on non-SDA subject matter in GT no matter what the topic.

I give you credit for having that fact and totally owning it.

What you fail to do on these TEN Commandment threads is notice that all the pro-Sunday sources listed below refute your arguments so far.

Thus if even THEY can see the flaw in your war against God's Ten Commandments - how much more so for people who actually keep the Sabbath as God gave it. (Just stating the obvious at this point).

 

[BobRyan]

MOD HAT

A small clean up was done. It is not okay to insult or mock others or to flame other groups!

Keep it civil

So then you are saying I should not pick out some denomination and accuse them of being a cult - in almost every post I make -- because that would not add anything at all of substance to the threads?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So then you are saying I should not pick out some denomination and accuse them of being a cult - in almost every post I make -- because that would not add anything at all of substance to the threads?

How would yer sect like to be called a cult


.