A Pondering of the Peculiar (3)

[Subduction Zone]

why do you hate your dad? Anyways, the wiki thing is not to discard it. It is regulated by it's peers and that in itself makes it reference only not an absolute, whether creation or evolution or ?. As for its error rate, there is no way real way to confirm that statement because wiki is filled with personal data that cannot be verified. Its basic function is for information and then tries to make it truthful through interaction. It is the interaction that is also questionable. Wiki is good for directional and exploratory research though.

Why the insults? They are against the rules here.

Yes, Wiki is regulated by its members. Most of them are interesting in being accurate. As I said it has been found to be about as accurate as the Encyclopedia Brittanica. I could find the article if you doubt me to, I thought almost everybody knew it. Of course there are many other sources available. And they all agree, the theory of evolution has been confirmed far beyond a reasonable doubt.

So, do you disagree with the theory of evolution? Why?

 

[BrotherRickG]

Why the insults? They are against the rules here.

Yes, Wiki is regulated by its members. Most of them are interesting in being accurate. As I said it has been found to be about as accurate as the Encyclopedia Brittanica. I could find the article if you doubt me to, I thought almost everybody knew it. Of course there are many other sources available. And they all agree, the theory of evolution has been confirmed far beyond a reasonable doubt.

So, do you disagree with the theory of evolution? Why?

Sorry, I was reading you tag line "I defeated dad too!" and to me it sounded like an attack on your dad. If it meant something else let me know, that is why I was questioning it not making a statement.

Your last statement about evolution being "confirmed far beyond a reasonable doubt" is absolutely a lie. That is a manipulation to try and quall any honest discussion to further truth.

If evolution was true then none of us would be here. Think about the basic definition of evolution. All things change over time at all times. The idea of a "Gap" in itself does not fit. Kind of like thermo dynamics, you cannot change the formula just to account for portions that do not fit your hypothesis.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, I was reading you tag line "I defeated dad too!" and to me it sounded like an attack on your dad. If it meant something else let me know, that is why I was questioning it not making a statement.

Your last statement about evolution being "confirmed far beyond a reasonable doubt" is absolutely a lie. That is a manipulation to try and quall any honest discussion to further truth.

If evolution was true then none of us would be here. Think about the basic definition of evolution. All things change over time at all times. The idea of a "Gap" in itself does not fit. Kind of like thermo dynamics, you cannot change the formula just to account for portions that do not fit your hypothesis.

dad (note the lower case "d") is a member here who has the fallacious claim 'Never defeated" or some other such rot.

And evolution has been confirmed. What don't you understand about evolution? In other words why do you think that it has not been confirmed to be true? I would be more than happy to help you to learn.

You clearly do not understand evolution since it says nothing about us being here or not.

And if you don't want people to laugh at you rudely please don't try to claim that the Second Law of Thermodynamics, often referred to as the SLoT, opposes evolution.

I have found that most creationists who are against evolution have no understanding of the theory at all.

 

[Sayre]

1, I didn't look it up, I make a point of not looking at dictionaries anymore because I get easily distracted by all the other words around the ones I look up. 2, I had never seen the word used quite that way and it tripped me up a little. it isn't a common word to begin with, and is one of those words you have to see used to really understand the connotation and usable meanings (sort of like the word glib, at least in my opinion looking that word up alone doesn't reveal how best to use it). 3, Parsimony might be the vernacular of the intellectual fields, but so are a bunch of other terms most people wouldn't necessarily recognize. the vernacular of college text books is not the vernacular of everyday speech, and 4, word of the day calendars can have words as simple as abscond, so I highly doubt that parsimony isn't fair game.

It didn't offend me, it just tripped me up, as I said. it is impossible to know all the uses of every word of a language, I was attempting to assimilate a new use of a word, but I wanted to make sure that use was correct first. it is how I tend to learn stuff from other people when I am not certain of the potential for error. I didn't think you used the wrong word (language charlatans reveal themselves pretty quickly) I was trying to assess how common that use of the word was, and since I hadn't seen it used that way, thought that probably a great deal of other people besides myself hadn't either. most people who don't know those words will just assume a meaning for them or not bother with an entire comment and just ignore it. My statement of using the vernacular was intended as friendly advice, as a fellow overly verbose individual striving to advise another on the most auspicious manner of communication with various peoples. Trust me, being misunderstood gets old. It might be better for you though because you are older than me (probably, I am taking an educated guess seeing as you don't have your age next to your avatar, but I am willing to bet that you are older than me. I turned 19 less than a month ago).

Give it up Sarah. You were bragging about having a language IQ of 150 and yet didn't know a fairly common use of the word 'parsimony'. Your defense is a word salad. Just take note of the fact that you learned something, and next time don't be so quick to call your ignorance my error.

 

[BrotherRickG]

Give it up Sarah. You were bragging about having a language IQ of 150 and yet didn't know a fairly common use of the word 'parsimony'. Your defense is a word salad. Just take note of the fact that you learned something, and next time don't be so quick to call your ignorance my error.

You have got to be kidding. She deserves a medal. Not only has she been respectful but intelligent. No matter where Sarah stands on the beginnings of life, she has time and the real brain to figure it out.

ignorance... Really, you should sincerely apologize to her and keep your man card otherwise you will have to check it at the door.

 

[Sayre]

You have got to be kidding. She deserves a medal. Not only has she been respectful but intelligent. No matter where Sarah stands on the beginnings of life, she has time and the real brain to figure it out.

ignorance... Really, you should sincerely apologize to her and keep your man card otherwise you will have to check it at the door.

You are clearly new here. Maybe you'd like to spend some time reading past posts before you speak on something.

 

[biggles53]

I prefer to chop up my parsimony really finely and sprinkle it over my spaghetti sauce........

Oh....."man card" Brother.....??

 

[Dizredux]

Are you trying to get your scientific libido going, are you looking for some Viagra? So far you are impotent. Your rage against others opinions is fascinating. Whether they are of your equal or better you challenge as if you are something special and I think you are not.

Wiki is good because why, your peers wrote the portion you are reciting? Descend into preaching! You are the one who needs a lesson on how to stop preaching.

I personally think you are not that smart. You and others on this thread who rely on others opinions and science to try and prove something you are not capable of because in the end it is not provable. I say write your own thesis and lets hear some of your own ideas and see how your own creative knowledge helps society.

If you really cared about reaching the lost you would not talk down to them but speak with kindness and concern. Whether I thought you were wrong in your assessment or not at least you would have honor, as I see it now you do not have any honor, just contempt and arrogance.

"If you really cared about reaching the lost you would not talk down to them but speak with kindness and concern."

Might be a good thing to take your own advice. If your goal is to bring others to Christ, you can't do it by talking to them the way you do. It just doesn't work.

Dizredux

 

[GenemZ]

You aren't too far off. As it happens, for humans, the time frame in which memories are best kept in permanent form spans from about the early twenties to mid thirties (I will enter that range in about a year). This is why Alzheimer's patients often revert to these memories when the disease progresses; these are the most well kept memories and usually the last to fade away. Rather unfortunate for those who were in combat for these years.

If you have forgotten something from ten minutes ago, you probably will not be able to remember it without being reminded by someone or by the presence of something related to that memory. Short term memory usually lasts for only about a minute or less, and there isn't much "free-floating" a memory can do before it begins to significantly decay. Like it or not, you have forgotten more than half of the information you interpreted in any given day, and most of what you remember is patchy and missing details.

That's the way we have been designed. Yet, God can tell you exactly what you will say, or think privately, on January 25th 2012, at 9:43 PM. He does not suffer from short term memory loss. He is a constant backup of all that happens and happened. Yet, He has the back up also waiting for us to catch up. He lives outside of time. He created time for our sakes. So we can begin to make sense of things. If he began with us living in eternity nothing could make sense. He has to teach us how to gain knowledge now. Knowledge gives understanding. Understanding will be our mental gravity shoes for eternity.

Grace and peace..

 

[FredHoyle]

That's the way we have been designed. Yet, God can tell you exactly what you will say, or think privately, on January 25th 2012, at 9:43 PM. He does not suffer from short term memory loss. He is a constant backup of all that happens and happened. Yet, He has the back up also waiting for us to catch up. He lives outside of time. He created time for our sakes. So we can begin to make sense of things. If he began with us living in eternity nothing could make sense. He has to teach us how to gain knowledge now. Knowledge gives understanding. Understanding will be our mental gravity shoes for eternity.

What would you say was wrong with someone who talked about imaginary things as if they were real?

 

[GenemZ]

What would you say was wrong with someone who talked about imaginary things as if they were real?

I know where you are going with that... Because I know how limited you are in your perspective. So, must I relate to you according to your truncated view of reality? If that were the case, I would have not bothered.

You could say I am an optimist. Just trying to get that rusted door of yours to open up just a little. The world around you could NOT have just happened by happenstance. But, then again. I realize what a limited perspective that you suffer from. And, because of that, you will try anything you can to try to make me feel unhappy for having something you do not possess.

Atheists, when around a genuine Christian, suffer from a form of jealousy that they never face up to. They must destroy the thought that they do not possess what another has. Something that gives the other a happiness they do not/can not, know. So, you get nasty and mentally sadistic in trying to bring that Christian down.

You must tell yourself that they only live in an illusion. I agree. Some do live in an illusion. I can bring them down as well. But, you can not bring down what is real. But, you can not face that. You got to keep trying to find what it is that the genuine keep hidden from you to protect their illusion. You will never find it. For, you only appear as empty shell in what you have to offer. You are born. You grow. You die. Then, good bye.

Tell me.. What do you have to offer to win me over to your empty way of life?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know where you are going with that... Because I know how limited you are in your perspective. So, must I relate to you according to your truncated view of reality? If that were the case, I would have not bothered.

You could say I am an optimist. Just trying to get that rusted door of yours to open up just a little. The world around you could NOT have just happened by happenstance. But, then again. I realize what a limited perspective that you suffer from. And, because of that, you will try anything you can to try to make me feel unhappy for having something you do not possess.

Atheists, when around a genuine Christian, suffer from a form of jealousy that they never face up to. They must destroy the thought that they do not possess what another has. Something that gives the other a happiness they do not/can not, know. So, you get nasty and mentally sadistic in trying to bring that Christian down.

You must tell yourself that they only live in an illusion. I agree. Some do live in an illusion. I can bring them down as well. But, you can not bring down what is real. But, you can not face that. You got to keep trying to find what it is that the genuine keep hidden from you to protect their illusion. You will never find it. For, you only appear as empty shell in what you have to offer. You are born. You grow. You die. Then, good bye.

Tell me.. What do you have to offer to win me over to your empty way of life?

There is no need to lump all atheists together and insult them just because you run into one or two that can be a bit troublesome. Most atheists do not feel any emptiness when they meet a Christian. You might be fooling yourself. Do you apply the same slur to a Muslim or a Buddhist?

And it is just as reasonable to say "we couldn't have come from something as silly as a god" as to say "we could NOT have just happened by happenstance". Besides people who accept the theory of evolution do not believe we came about only from "happenstance". It is dishonest to misrepresent the claims of others. It is much better to quote in context to make a point and a link to the source should be included.

 

[GenemZ]

Of course if a creationist wants to ban Wikipedia then we definitely have to ban sites like Answers in Genesis, the Discovery Institute, and other such creationist sites. All of which have been shown to be not only wrong but often openly dishonest.

Are all Americans conservative? Are all Americans socialists? Are all Americans libertarians? Are all Americans the same? No. Nor are all who are creationists. Some disgree with the other like the types of Americans I just mentioned do.

The biggest problem I find with your side of the argument. You are not willing to learn anything that your talking points do not relate to.

For, not all positions on Creation are the same. The favorite target (and easiest) for your way of thinking are the Young Earth Creationists. Trouble is. When you argue with all creationists as being the same, there can be no discussion, nor learning to be had. You're, in essence. A hardwired argument. Read only memory. After a few times it becomes predictable. Like putting a quarter in the slot to play a song.

There is more to know. But, evolutionists want only to debate young earth creationists. For YEC's are working with a premise equally flawed as their own.

 

[FredHoyle]

What would you say was wrong with someone who talked about imaginary things as if they were real?

I know where you are going with that... Because I know how limited you are in your perspective. So, must I relate to you according to your truncated view of reality? If that were the case, I would have not bothered.

Of course you know where I was going with that because in any other circumstances the answer would be,
in need of treatment, but because your imaginary friend is classed as a religion you get a pass, when in fact you need the same treatment.

Tell me.. What do you have to offer to win me over to your empty way of life?

Offer you? absolutely nothing, what could I offer you? what could anyone offer you?

You know as well as I do there is nothing anyone could say, do or demonstrate that would change your mind,
the only one who can change your mind is you, you must find out for yourself, because even if anyone could you would not let them show you, dismissal and denial is what creationism is all about, if you let reality in it will take you over and you know it.

If you talked to me for very long your shields would be set so high even light and air would be shut out.

 

[GenemZ]

There is no need to lump all atheists together and insult them just because you run into one or two that can be a bit troublesome.

Boring is not troublesome unless I am seeking to be entertained. Many atheists it appears seek to be entertained by the responses of believers.

Most atheists do not feel any emptiness when they meet a Christian. You might be fooling yourself. Do you apply the same slur to a Muslim or a Buddhist?

Its not a feeling of emptiness. Its not having the ability to go some place in your thinking. I do not expect you to be able to. At the same time, its not good to say where you do not know how to go, must not exist.

And it is just as reasonable to say "we couldn't have come from something as silly as a god" as to say "we could NOT have just happened by happenstance".

How you said that sounds like you have been overly influenced by peer pressure. That you fear ridicule from your peers. Ridicule that you could not bear if you ever found God. But, if you ever truly found God? The ridicule would become meaningless and "empty." Like a bear does not fret the bees trying to sing him as he digs in and scoops up the honey from their hive. (which you claim all came into being by random, absolutely lucky, happenstance, occurrences.)

Besides people who accept the theory of evolution do not believe we came about only from "happenstance".

Is that a sideways way of saying you believe in Intelligent Design? Because, without it being planned and designed? It would have to be simply amazingly lucked-out happenstance. Mind boggling function.. all by chance, and without any outside guidance in coming together.

It is dishonest to misrepresent the claims of others. It is much better to quote in context to make a point and a link to the source should be included.

Dishonest? Or, was it a mistake?

Was it a mistake for you to say I was being dishonest? Or, was it dishonest?

 

[GenemZ]

Of course you know where I was going with that because in any other circumstances the answer would be,
in need of treatment, but because your imaginary friend is classed as a religion you get a pass, when in fact you need the same treatment.

That's how they treated Christians in Communist Russia. They tried to torture Christians out of their belief in mental institutions. Atheism at its finest.

Offer you? absolutely nothing, what could I offer you? what could anyone offer you?

When you have nothing to offer? You're simply a process of biological functions that has a drive to survive, so you can live long enough to die at a later date.

Atheism has nothing to offer. Only explanations as to how we got to be existing in meaninglessness. You function biologically, seek some pleasure if you can find it...then you die. That's great.

 

[Davian]

Are you trying to get your scientific libido going, are you looking for some Viagra? So far you are impotent.

Is it not possible for you to stop making the personal comments?

I asked, have you have anything of significance? No?

Your rage against others opinions is fascinating.

Do not mistake confidence for anger.

And, what I am against here is not opinions, but opinions presented as fact. I am here to learn about theists, and how and why they believe, and apply that knowledge to my personal life.

Just this month, my eldest daughter brought home the discussion papers from school on ID and creation "theory", and we went over them together.

And, my youngest came to me and asked, "Is God alive? Is God real?".

I want to be able to answer these questions with a degree of confidence that my answers reflect reality.

Whether they are of your equal or better you challenge as if you are something special and I think you are not.

Again with the personal attacks. This forum is a marketplace of ideas, not your personal punching bag.

Wiki is good because why, your peers wrote the portion you are reciting?

Wiki has a track record of being very reliable. It is not perfect, and I often go to and reference the citations provided within an article.

"Wikipedia is about as good a source of accurate information as Britannica, the venerable standard-bearer of facts about the world around us, according to a study published this week in the journal Nature."

Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica - CNET News

Contrast that with the site from where you were getting your cosmology information.

Descend into preaching! You are the one who needs a lesson on how to stop preaching.

Where have I been preaching?

I personally think you are not that smart.

I don't either, but I do the best that I can with what I have. Would you like me to upload a picture so that you can also comment on my physical appearance?

You and others on this thread who rely on others opinions and science to try and prove something you are not capable of because in the end it is not provable.

Yes, you are very anti-science. Why is that?

FYI, Science doesn't do "proof".

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, science is the worst way to investigate reality, but all the others have been tried.

I say write your own thesis and lets hear some of your own ideas and see how your own creative knowledge helps society.

I am not here to win anyone over with my ideas. I came to a theist site in the hope that they could substantiate theirs. Nothing so far.

If you really cared about reaching the lost you would not talk down to them but speak with kindness and concern.

This is a marketplace of ideas, not about 'reaching the lost'. If you want to be lost, go for it.

If you would like your ideas coddled and to be unquestioned, there are Christian-only sections to this site.

Whether I thought you were wrong in your assessment or not

What do you think about that? I showed you where you were wrong, repeatedly, on your cosmology concepts, and instead of acknowledging the corrections, you get all personal about it. What happened there?

at least you would have honor, as I see it now you do not have any honor, just contempt and arrogance.

Again you make this personal. Don't mistake confidence for arrogance. Of what use is honour, if it is based on a falsehood?

Of what value are your beliefs, if they are based on falsehoods?

 

[Davian]

Wikipedia is not a good source. it is useful for finding links to good sources sometimes, but in itself is often very flawed, especially with information that requires but does not have a citation. I dislike how it is overused on this forum as a reference in general.

"Very flawed"? Do you have anything to substantiate that?

 

[GenemZ]

Do not mistake confidence for anger.

Your confidence is no better than keeping it untouched, so nothing would anger you. You do so by putting words in another's mouth so you can have your little world unchallenged and not deal with what was actually said.

If someone physically or legally forced you to answer honestly some of the things you have been presented? Things which instead of addressing, you glibly vaporized away by changing the intent of what was stated, as if it were the intent? Your confidence would prove that its only based upon your ability to avoid issues. Not resolve them.

True confidence comes from having real answers that resolve the problem. Your confidence comes from your ability to dodge and slap. Not from being able to take a punch and remain standing

 

[Davian]

I know where you are going with that... Because I know how limited you are in your perspective. So, must I relate to you according to your truncated view of reality? If that were the case, I would have not bothered.

You could say I am an optimist. Just trying to get that rusted door of yours to open up just a little. The world around you could NOT have just happened by happenstance. But, then again. I realize what a limited perspective that you suffer from. And, because of that, you will try anything you can to try to make me feel unhappy for having something you do not possess.

That you believe you possess something does not mean that you actually possess it.

Atheists, when around a genuine Christian, suffer from a form of jealousy that they never face up to.

What is a "genuine" Christian? One like you? lol.

They must destroy the thought that they do not possess what another has. Something that gives the other a happiness they do not/can not, know. So, you get nasty and mentally sadistic in trying to bring that Christian down.

It may seem that way to you, but it is not you that is the target, just what is claimed as truth yet rings of falsehood.

Are you not here on a voluntary basis?

You must tell yourself that they only live in an illusion. I agree. Some do live in an illusion. I can bring them down as well. But, you can not bring down what is real.

I do not accept your presumption that what you have is "real".

But, you can not face that. You got to keep trying to find what it is that the genuine keep hidden from you to protect their illusion. You will never find it.

Because it is not there. It is only an illusion.

For, you only appear as empty shell in what you have to offer. You are born. You grow. You die. Then, good bye.

That may be the reality of it. Do you not think I would prefer the alternative?

Tell me.. What do you have to offer to win me over to your empty way of life?

I do not have an empty way of life.

The question at hand is, what do you have to offer to win me over to yours?