Who said Job was blameless?

[Setyoufree]

Elihu's name is never mentioned ...

By God, you mean?

That's a good thing....Because the names mentioned by God, namely Job & his three friends, were mentioned in rebuke. Elihu wasn't rebuked because he was sent of God.

I've noticed that folks who tend to be self-righteous attack Elihu. I've seen it time after time.....Sad.

 

[Setyoufree]

# 92

... God states to Satan these were allowed to happen to Job "without cause".

 

[Setyoufree]

That concludes my Biblical view on the book of Job.

 

[brinny]

# 92

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
... God states to Satan these were allowed to happen to Job "without cause".

that's not the quote i'm referring to....you posted a quote with my name in it that i didn't say....

 

[Setyoufree]

that's not the quote i'm referring to....you posted a quote with my name in it that i didn't say....

Please spell out in detail what you are referring to.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
that's not the quote i'm referring to....you posted a quote with my name in it that i didn't say....

Please spell out in detail what you are referring to.

see post #94. At the top of that post, i never wrote that.

 

[bmjackson]

Key verses:

Job's self-righteousness:

"Let God weigh me (Job) in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless" [Job:31:6]

God, through Elihu, rebukes Job:

Job 36:1 Elihu continued: 2 "Bear with me a little longer and I will show you that there is more to be said in God's behalf...

Job's problem:

Job 32:1 Then these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But the anger of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram burned; against Job his anger burned because he justified himself before God.

Job repents:

Job 40:3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said , 4 "Behold, I am vile..." Job 42:6 "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes"...

Job's wealth is restored:

Job 42:12 "The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first."

Conclusion:

When God said that Job was blameless, He was presenting Job's view of himself.

The point of the narrative is that Job did not deserve the 'abandonment' by God, which is what he could not bear, not the loss of his worldly possessions which had already been declared by him as God's gifts which He had every right to give and take away (Blessed be the Lord). He had not sinned which is the usual reason for the separation between God and man and the heavens were as brass when he enquired of God, what sin he had committed, as he knew there was none. This is what he could not understand. He lost everything and still praised God yet, suddenly the presence of God was gone and he was blameless.

Others have entered this trial of the dark night even Jesus on the cross. The suffering is entirely due to the person losing the most precious thing in his life, that is, the presence of God so this trial is for the advanced spiritual man.

We see Job descend into desolation and yes he sins and then needs to repent but by then he knows he is sinning and no longer walking in grace. But he still was blameless, declared by God and undisputed by Satan at the beginning of the narrative.

 

[Setyoufree]

see post #94. At the top of that post, i never wrote that.

Yes, I wrote that, but for some reason your name is there....I'll correct it.

 

[Setyoufree]

He had not sinned....He lost everything and still praised God yet, suddenly the presence of God was gone and he was blameless.

He was angry with God - mixed emotions I suppose. His problem? He justified himself before God. That's a self-righteous act.

And "no" - he was not without sin.

All we can produce is a pretend righteousness. That's why Christ said, "without me you can do nothing".

Job was self-deceived. He was like Paul before he became a Christian.

But he still was blameless, declared by God and undisputed by Satan at the beginning of the narrative.

No, untrue. God presented Job as blameless to Satan because that's how Job presented himself to God.

 

[MJohn7]

I like Job, he was no pharisee who looked down on others and only obeyed in the sight of men, or to be praised by them. His walk was by Faith in God, in my opinion so far. But some seem to be likening Job to a hypocritical pharisee, i'm not sure that's the point to Job at all, even David endured hardship, and every believer will too. But im not sure what the point of Job is exactly, as i said i need to study.

And satan was wrong, Job didn't curse God that i see.

 

[MJohn7]

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

 

[MJohn7]

Interesting verse


6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came among them.

 

[Setyoufree]

.... 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

Job had a problem and that problem was self-righteousness. Job was self-deceived. He did not realize his problem. Yes, Job believed in God. Paul, as a Pharisee, believed in God. You can believe in God and be self-righteous. I was at one time....

No, Job didn't curse God as Satan thought he would, but Job had something to learn. It's too bad he had to learn it the hard way.

 

[Setyoufree]

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness ..., Jesus told this parable:

10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14 "I tell you that this man (the sinner), rather than the other (the Pharisee), went home justified before God.

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled...."

What does it mean "who exalts himself" ?

What's the context?

The sinner asked for mercy....He saw himself as a sinner compared to God's righteousness.

The proud Pharisee justified himself before God.

Now, what did Job do?

Job 31:6 let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless-- 35 let the Almighty answer me; let my accuser put his indictment in writing.

Job 32:2 "But the anger of Elihu ... burned; against Job his anger burned because he justified himself before God!" (NAS)

What happened to Job?

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled...."

 

[MJohn7]

Job had a problem and that problem was self-righteousness. Job was self-deceived. He did not realize his problem. Yes, Job believed in God. Paul, as a Pharisee, believed in God. You can believe in God and be self-righteous. I was at one time....

No, Job didn't curse God as Satan thought he would, but Job had something to learn. It's too bad he had to learn it the hard way.

I dont know if that was the point of Job or not, so i wont say God allowed satan to kill his children to teach him a lesson, it seems like a stretch. However, as far as learning the hard way goes, don't you understand we all learn the hard way?

If[b] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

 

[Setyoufree]

Luke 18:14 "..."For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled...."."

And?


"He who humbles himself will be exalted."

Was Job humbled?

You decide:

The Humble Job

Job 40:4 "Behold, I am vile"

Job 42:6 "Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes"

The exalted Job

Job 42:10 And the Lord restored Job's losses ....Indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.....12 Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yoke of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also had seven sons and three daughters. ....16 Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. 17 So Job died, old and full of days.

 

[Setyoufree]

...God allowed satan to kill his children to teach him a lesson, it seems like a stretch......

Job 1:18 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house, 19 and suddenly a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they are dead; and I alone have escaped to tell you!"

Ez 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

Job's grown children did not die because of their father's sin....The Bible doesn't say why God did not intervene....

 

[MJohn7]

And?


"He who humbles himself will be exalted."

Was Job humbled?

You decided:

The Humble Job

Job 40:4 "Behold, I am vile"

Job 42:6 "Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes"

The exalted Job

Job 42:10 And the Lord restored Job's losses ....Indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.....12 Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yoke of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also had seven sons and three daughters. ....16 Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. 17 So Job died, old and full of days.

Lets not forget Job didn't curse God which is what satin was trying to do.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by MJohn7 View Post
...God allowed satan to kill his children to teach him a lesson, it seems like a stretch......

Job 1:18 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house, 19 and suddenly a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they are dead; and I alone have escaped to tell you!"

Ez 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

Job's grown children did not die because of their father's sin....
The Bible doesn't say why God did not intervene....

Good point.

 

[MJohn7]

The soul who sins is the one who will die.

Job's grown children did not die because of their father's sin....The Bible doesn't say why God did not intervene....

It was Jobs children who cursed God and they died, dont forget that.




2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”