how can you be sure that the devil is evil and the bible is correct?

[quatona]

Basically, Jesus said that Satan has only come to steal, kill, and destroy humanity. I have no reason to think that the text which encompasses Jesus' explanation here to have been tampered with. Additionally, if we simply take the cumulative data regarding Satan which the entire Bible offers, I think it is clear from the internal evidence that Satan is not on the side of humanity.

Well, Satan was the one who encouraged them into acquiring the knowledge of good and evil, in the first place, no?
If good/evil is an important dichotomy (as seems to be a main theme in the bible) encouraging humanity to know about it is quite a service.

 

[LogicWeNeedYou]

Evil or Bad implies harm. Just because you are acting to provide the highest amount of happiness for yourself does not mean anybody is being harmed.

Ken

while good and evil are quite closely linked to harm the reason i did not put it in is because I don't think it's necessarily a core part of it but a action or inaction that can come from it. for example: say you were running with two people, say one of them was a good person and the other was an evil person. now, should you fall over i would assume that unless the evil person got a reward for helping you up, only the good person would help you.

Then the OP needs to rephrase his original question, which was: how can you be sure that the devil is evil and the bible is correct?

That is a different question, Ken.

I chose those two questions because (I assume) in the bible it says that the devil is evil. so these two questions co-inside quite well. therefore should you be able to prove one without using the other as proof, you will have answered both of my questions.

Well, Satan was the one who encouraged them into acquiring the knowledge of good and evil, in the first place, no?
If good/evil is an important dichotomy (as seems to be a main theme in the bible) encouraging humanity to know about it is quite a service.

now that does raise an interesting point...
why would the devil make humanity know good from evil if he throughout that is would just mean that people would think that he was evil?

 

[Ken-1122]

while good and evil are quite closely linked to harm

I disagree with your claim that good is closely linked to harm. Care to give an example?

the reason i did not put it in is because I don't think it's necessarily a core part of it but a action or inaction that can come from it.

Well you were wrong. In order for something to be bad, harm is a necessary component.

for example: say you were running with two people, say one of them was a good person and the other was an evil person. now, should you fall over i would assume that unless the evil person got a reward for helping you up, only the good person would help you.

With the examples you gave, the good person's behavior was a complete opposite of the bad person's behavior. I don't think those were very good examples. Care to try again?

K

 

[juvenissun]

generally speaking most people define "good" as being the act of helping others to achieve the highest amount of happiness for all, however "evil" or "bad" would be the act to help your self and to achieve the highest amount of happiness for them self.
also the way you are using the word just makes it sound like: you don't know what good is and just use it as a compliment, or you're saying that god is a metaphorical being and is mealy a social construct.


would i put a stopper in your argument if i told you that I don't believe in souls and spirit?

how does this relate to the accuracy of the bible or the devil's morality?

So If I sell a very rich person drug, am I a good man? and is that a good thing to do?

I think no matter how would you give example of good, I can always easily give you a counter example. And there is always elements of bad mixed in the so-called good. That is how good your "good" is.

 

[juvenissun]

Well, Satan was the one who encouraged them into acquiring the knowledge of good and evil, in the first place, no?
If good/evil is an important dichotomy (as seems to be a main theme in the bible) encouraging humanity to know about it is quite a service.

Exactly. Now you appreciate what satan did. How great he is.
Do you think Adam and Eve are stupid and could be easily cheated?

 

[juvenissun]

The question is; how do you know the bible is correct?

K

I know because I studied it.

How do you know what a textbook said is correct?

 

[Ken-1122]

I know because I studied it.

Did you use an outside source to confirm the bible's account of satan was correct? Or did you use the bible to confirm the bible is correct.

How do you know what a textbook said is correct?

It depends upon the textbook. If it is a math book you can use math principles to confirm it is correct; other books can be confirmed by other books that have already been established as correct. What-ever the case an outside source is needed to confirm the text book is correct.

Ken

 

[2PhiloVoid]

while good and evil are quite closely linked to harm the reason i did not put it in is because I don't think it's necessarily a core part of it but a action or inaction that can come from it. for example: say you were running with two people, say one of them was a good person and the other was an evil person. now, should you fall over i would assume that unless the evil person got a reward for helping you up, only the good person would help you.



I chose those two questions because (I assume) in the bible it says that the devil is evil. so these two questions co-inside quite well. therefore should you be able to prove one without using the other as proof, you will have answered both of my questions.



now that does raise an interesting point...
why would the devil make humanity know good from evil if he throughout that is would just mean that people would think that he was evil?

You guys aren't seeing the main problem. Satan wasn't offering eternal life to Adam and Eve, only knowledge. Knowledge does not enable people to gain eternal life themselves, especially if its gaining separates them from the source of eternal life, i.e. God. (If you don't want to believe the story, or give it some kind of credit, fine. That is your choice, but don't feed into it your eisegesis and call it 'logic.')

 

[KWCrazy]

Discussing the Scriptures with an atheist is like discussing politics with a parrot; they can mouth words, but they cannot understand.
Psalm 18:25,26
With the merciful
You will show Yourself merciful;
With a blameless man
You will show yourself blameless;
With the pure
You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious
You will show Yourself perverse.

The truth is hidden from the unbelievers.

1 Corinthians. 2:14
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

This page discusses why unbelievers have no understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[quatona]

Exactly. Now you appreciate what satan did. How great he is.
Do you think Adam and Eve are stupid and could be easily cheated?

Yes, seeing that A&E were not informed, not educated and not experienced in many respects I think that they were "stupid", if you prefer that term.
I´m not sure what you mean by "cheated", in this context.

 

[Ken-1122]

Discussing the Scriptures with an atheist is like discussing politics with a parrot; they can mouth words, but they cannot understand.
Psalm 18:25,26
With the merciful
You will show Yourself merciful;
With a blameless man
You will show yourself blameless;
With the pure
You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious
You will show Yourself perverse.

The truth is hidden from the unbelievers.

1 Corinthians. 2:14
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

This page discusses why unbelievers have no understanding of the Scriptures.

Don't fool yourself; they understand the bible, they just don't agree with it.

K

 

[KWCrazy]

Don't fool yourself; they understand the bible, they just don't agree with it.

So when they misrepresent the Scriptures we are to assume that they understand what is written and are intentionally lying? Okay, if you say so.

 

[Davian]

Discussing the Scriptures with an atheist is like discussing politics with a parrot; they can mouth words, but they cannot understand.

Insults. Do you find these make your comments more persuasive?

Psalm 18:25,26
With the merciful
You will show Yourself merciful;
With a blameless man
You will show yourself blameless;
With the pure
You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious
You will show Yourself perverse.

The truth is hidden from the unbelievers.

1 Corinthians. 2:14
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

This page discusses why unbelievers have no understanding of the Scriptures.

Is the "truth" also hidden from theistic evolutionists? How is that thread going for you?

 

[KWCrazy]

Insults. Do you find these make your comments more persuasive?

Not an insult at all. The Scriptures make it quite clear that they don't understand, as do their posts. Are they simply mistaken, or lying?

Is the "truth" also hidden from theistic evolutionists? How is that thread going for you?

I haven't ever seen a theistic evolutionist who could justify what he believes with the Scriptures, so I would agree that they can't see the truth. They've compromised truth with the desire to be seen as scientifically enlightened. That only works well if you have the correct answers, and science can only guess at matters of origination.

 

[Ken-1122]

So when they misrepresent the Scriptures we are to assume that they understand what is written and are intentionally lying? Okay, if you say so.

Some people don't misrepresent scripture, they just don't agree with it.

K

 

[juvenissun]

Did you use an outside source to confirm the bible's account of satan was correct? Or did you use the bible to confirm the bible is correct.


It depends upon the textbook. If it is a math book you can use math principles to confirm it is correct; other books can be confirmed by other books that have already been established as correct. What-ever the case an outside source is needed to confirm the text book is correct.

Ken

The only way to know if a textbook has the right information is to STUDY it.

I study the Bible. And I, not another book or another man; it is I, who confirm the Bible. It is MY business. I don't really care who says what about it.

If you have any question about the Bible, then let's STUDY it. I will try to make you understand.

 

[juvenissun]

Yes, seeing that A&E were not informed, not educated and not experienced in many respects I think that they were "stupid", if you prefer that term.
I´m not sure what you mean by "cheated", in this context.

It means that Adam is a very smart person. Smarter than any of the Nobel Prize winners.

 

[quatona]

It means that Adam is a very smart person. Smarter than any of the Nobel Prize winners.

How you meant to communicate all that by the word "cheated" is beyond me.
Likewise how you managed to arrive at the conclusion that Adam was "smarter than any of the Nobel Prize winners".

Whatever.

 

[Davian]

Not an insult at all. The Scriptures make it quite clear that they don't understand, as do their posts. Are they simply mistaken, or lying?

Based on observations of the world around us, it would appear that the scriptures are mistaken. I do not see a way of determining if they were lying, but that might be so. I also don't see where your need to insult others comes from.

I haven't ever seen a theistic evolutionist who could justify what he believes with the Scriptures, so I would agree that they can't see the truth. They've compromised truth with the desire to be seen as scientifically enlightened. That only works well if you have the correct answers, and science can only guess at matters of origination.

By "truth" in this context, it would seem you mean "your opinion". The scriptures are no authority on scientific matters.

As for origins, scientists can make educated guesses, based on models derived from mathematics and experimentation. A far sight better than any religion.

 

[elliott95]

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