It is a fact that the mormons made the same mistake the JW's did..

[joneysd]

The mormons have claimed just as the JW's did that the world would come to an end and God told them when that would be, in fact they have given several dates for the end of the world.

How was it dismissed and still, like the JW's, they claim to be the only true church that God has contact with, does God make mistakes??

 

[Phantasman]

Only if one is concerned with the world, which I'm not.

 

[Moodshadow]

The mormons have claimed just as the JW's did that the world would come to an end and God told them when that would be, in fact they have given several dates for the end of the world.

How was it dismissed and still, like the JW's, they claim to be the only true church that God has contact with, does God make mistakes??

Can you post some source and/or quotation substantiating this claim? I was LDS for nearly four decades and always heard quite the opposite preached: that no one on earth knew when the Savior would return, as it clearly states in the scriptures.

 

[joneysd]

in 1835 smith claimed the world would come to an end in 56 years.

 

[Ran77]

in 1835 smith claimed the world would come to an end in 56 years.

Excuse me if I don't just take your word on this. Please, post an actual quote.

 

[joneysd]

In the History of the Church Volume 2, page 182, an eye witnesses account of Joseph Smith's prophecy in 1835 is recorded as: "President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene."

 

[Ran77]

In the History of the Church Volume 2, page 182, an eye witnesses account of Joseph Smith's prophecy in 1835 is recorded as: "President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene."

What this states is:

1. God commanded the meeting by vision and the Holy Spirit.

2. Discussed the trials and sufferings.

3. Stated that it was the will of God that those who went to zion shoudl be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard.

4. Then apparently states that 56 years should wind up the scene.


Should! Not will. Not ordained by God. This is a guess. At most, Joseph offered his personal thoughts on when this would happen. There are no quotes to determine how exactly they came to the notion that it should happen within 56 years. Is that a speculation on the part of the witnesses based on something else that Joseph said?


So this is a fail as far as I'm concerned. Thank you for supplying your source.

 

[joneysd]

What this states is:

1. God commanded the meeting by vision and the Holy Spirit.

2. Discussed the trials and sufferings.

3. Stated that it was the will of God that those who went to zion shoudl be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard.

4. Then apparently states that 56 years should wind up the scene.


Should! Not will. Not ordained by God. This is a guess. At most, Joseph offered his personal thoughts on when this would happen. There are no quotes to determine how exactly they came to the notion that it should happen within 56 years. Is that a speculation on the part of the witnesses based on something else that Joseph said?


So this is a fail as far as I'm concerned. Thank you for supplying your source.

oh so as long as we say should, do you think God told smith what to say or not, do you think God knows what will come to pass or not and when it will come.

prune the vineyard for the final time, what do you think that meant, is he then proclaiming all the sins after that are forgiven, is he proclaiming once saved always saved after that date??

 

[Ran77]

prune the vineyard for the final time, what do you think that meant . . .

That is a call for missionary work.

 

[joneysd]

That is a call for missionary work.

for the last time in 1835, so why do you continue to do missionary work, after the 56 years it should all have been unnecessary, which could only mean that as far as smith was concerned the end of the world was coming so no more missianary work was necessary.

 

[bbbbbbb]

for the last time in 1835, so why do you continue to do missionary work, after the 56 years it should all have been unnecessary, which could only mean that as far as smith was concerned the end of the world was coming so no more missianary work was necessary.

It does seem strange to me that he would specify a very exact number of years which would render the entire earth evanglized with the "restored" gospel", not to mention all of the proxy baptisms for untold billions so that they would also hear the "restored gospel." The former is a task which is still underway for ortodox Christianity after 2,000 years and the latter is a task which can never be completed because of the utter absence of any records of untold billions who have died.

 

[joneysd]

It does seem strange to me that he would specify a very exact number of years which would render the entire earth evanglized with the "restored" gospel", not to mention all of the proxy baptisms for untold billions so that they would also hear the "restored gospel." The former is a task which is still underway for ortodox Christianity after 2,000 years and the latter is a task which can never be completed because of the utter absence of any records of untold billions who have died.

However they would like to cover it up, it does appear as a clear prophecy for the end of the world but of course with this and all the other false prophecies of smith lands him in the biblical parameters of false prophet and therefore not worth listening too.
but obviously that would devastate the lds faith.

the lds do seem to have spent a great deal of time rehashing, even burying what was said before to deflect from the fact they have often been far from truthful or correct.

 

[Ran77]

for the last time in 1835, so why do you continue to do missionary work, after the 56 years it should all have been unnecessary, which could only mean that as far as smith was concerned the end of the world was coming so no more missianary work was necessary.

The missionary work will continue until Jesus returns. Joseph's personal thought on the matter was that it should take 56 years. He was wrong. Mortals tend to be wrong from time to time.

 

[joneysd]

The missionary work will continue until Jesus returns. Joseph's personal thought on the matter was that it should take 56 years. He was wrong. Mortals tend to be wrong from time to time.

oh we are back to personal thoughts, i almost forgot the lds line of if its true it was God if its not it was just the man talking..

 

[Ran77]

oh we are back to personal thoughts, i almost forgot the lds line of if its true it was God if its not it was just the man talking..

It could also be true if it was just the man talking. However, it is undoubtedly true if it is revelation from God. As I have already pointed out, Joseph offered this as an opinion. Doesn't bother me if you accept that or not. It does demonstrate a closed mind though. And it's okay with me if you show that to the world at large. Bottom line is that God does not deliver a prophecy that includes the word "should" in it.


Toodles.

 

[joneysd]

It could also be true if it was just the man talking. However, it is undoubtedly true if it is revelation from God. As I have already pointed out, Joseph offered this as an opinion. Doesn't bother me if you accept that or not. It does demonstrate a closed mind though. And it's okay with me if you show that to the world at large. Bottom line is that God does not deliver a prophecy that includes the word "should" in it.


Toodles.

Again where does it say it is his opinion, it clearly said he called the meeting as God commanded it and the prophecy was made known to him by the Holy spirit, how can that be his opinion, or was the Holy Spirit speaking as a man.

From an unbiased view there is only one way to see this and that is as a false prophecy one of many made by smith.

 

[Ran77]

Again where does it say it is his opinion, it clearly said he called the meeting as God commanded it and the prophecy was made known to him by the Holy spirit, how can that be his opinion, or was the Holy Spirit speaking as a man.

From an unbiased view there is only one way to see this and that is as a false prophecy one of many made by smith.

I already answered that.

An unbiased view huh? I'm not buying it.

 

[joneysd]

I already answered that.

An unbiased view huh? I'm not buying it.

so in your view if someone calls a meeting and says God told them to call that meeting and then says the Holy spirit gave them a revelation and that revelation turned out to be false, you don't think that person is false and by biblical rules should be classed as a false teacher?

 

[Ran77]

so in your view if someone calls a meeting and says God told them to call that meeting and then says the Holy spirit gave them a revelation and that revelation turned out to be false, you don't think that person is false and by biblical rules should be classed as a false teacher?

I have to say that the inaccuracy of your "in your view" statements really amazes me. They consistanty fall extremely wide of how I actually view a topic and have little resemblence to my actual comments. They are very creative though.

As a friendly suggestion, it might be better if you stopped. At least with the LDS, since you seem to have difficulty understanding them well enough to represent their views.

 

[Ran77]

lol... your avoidance is typical of the stand point of many LDS, when the obvious stares them in the face such as all the false prophecies of smith they just bury their heads.

You go ahead and think that all you want.