Name a doctrine that you used to believe in but dont anymore.

[ChristianLife08]

Mine would be that jesus is micheal the archangel and that hell doesnt exist.

Name one that you have thought was biblical but found out it was heretical?

As a child, two would be purgatory and the virgin mary doctrine.

later as a teenager, it would be a sense of higher knowledge (philosophy etc.) and trying your best.

 

[Rev Randy]

As a child, two would be purgatory and the virgin mary doctrine.

later as a teenager, it would be a sense of higher knowledge (philosophy etc.) and trying your best.

Which Virgin Mary Doctrine? There are quite a few.

 

[ChristianLife08]

Which Virgin Mary Doctrine? There are quite a few.

Many of them. Sinlessness, second eve, intercessor etc.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Osas

 

[MoreCoffee]

...

Maybe another day

 

[yogosans14]

It's odd that you'd say that purgatory and the immaculate conception are big doctrines when the latter was not promulgated as dogma until the 19th century and the former is essentially no different from every Christian's hope that when they stand before God they will be perfected, free from all inclinations to sin, pure and holy in every way. Purgatory is the means by which this happens, be it in an instant (as some protestants believe) or over aeons (as some Catholics believe). The fact of change is indisputable.

Well when I read the Bible Jesus only discussed Heaven and Hell, no in between.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well when I read the Bible Jesus only discussed Heaven and Hell, no in between.

I sometimes wonder what bible you've been reading.

 

[yogosans14]

I sometimes wonder what bible you've been reading.

All kinds, NIV, KJV, Amplfied, NLT, NKJV...

They never once suggested anything about Purgatory.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

All kinds, NIV, KJV, Amplfied, NLT, NKJV...

They never once suggested anything about Purgatory.

purgatory is a concept related to those who are "saved" but did not "overcome" those who were "called" but not "chosen"

The bible speaks of people who do not overcome .. and do not reign and rule with Christ over the nations and even taste of the second death . Paul relates that all works will be tested by fire .. and those with poor works will be saved but their works will be burned .

purgatory . is most likely taken from the word used for fire (as in the "lake" of fire) in the book of revelation being "pur" it was used also in context of a blacksmith back in the day .

 

[MamaZ]

6) Jesus "contradicts" the Law when He declares all food clean.

It is not that He contradicted the Law.. It is that He fulfilled the law. You will have to explain which scripture you are talking about. Because it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles the man but what comes out..

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus spoke a message that surpassed the law by premise . when that age dispensed (luke 16:16) . it continued to surpass it in every way and had no obligation to pay the law worship

 

[Knee V]

It is not that He contradicted the Law.. It is that He fulfilled the law. You will have to explain which scripture you are talking about. Because it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles the man but what comes out..

I know that it is not a contradiction. But for someone who doesn't accept the New Testament - or any scripture - it can look like a contradiction.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

"For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior"

Where the translation for 'head' is 'boss'.

I recognize now that the teaching for Christian households is a continuation of thought that does NOT begin at 5:22, but of concepts he has been discussing for the whole chapter (including the concept of mutual submission emphasized in 5:21).

So, not that I don't believe the doctrine, but that I see it differently than I was taught.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread had a small clean up earlier in the thread.

Stay away from flaming, folks.

 

[yogosans14]

purgatory is a concept related to those who are "saved" but did not "overcome" those who were "called" but not "chosen"

The bible speaks of people who do not overcome .. and do not reign and rule with Christ over the nations and even taste of the second death . Paul relates that all works will be tested by fire .. and those with poor works will be saved but their works will be burned .

purgatory . is most likely taken from the word used for fire (as in the "lake" of fire) in the book of revelation being "pur" it was used also in context of a blacksmith back in the day .

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, sliver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

 

[nephilimiyr]

There is a big difference in treatment here. Not to mention the fact that nobody except neoplatonic religionists (what evangelicals generally call Gnostics) agreed with the idea that the "bread of life" was a mere reference to some spiritual/intellectual reality until many centuries after Christ.

There's that word again! Well at least I know now how you mean it and why you use it.

No, I am not a gnostic, and nothing that I had said had anything to do with gnostism.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, sliver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

Revelation 2

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death

Therefore all who do not overcome shall be hurt by the second death . it's related to the corinthians verse . The consuming fire of the lake of fire is the presence of God . so it's not a contradiction . it's just a shift in perception .

 

[yogosans14]

Revelation 2

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death

Therefore all who do not overcome shall be hurt by the second death . it's related to the corinthians verse . The consuming fire of the lake of fire is the presence of God . so it's not a contradiction . it's just a shift in perception .

Again, I doubt you even read everything I posted but Catholics seem to have a misinterpretation of Christs sacrifice.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Seeing many Protestants are Biblical literalists, I'm puzzled that they don't take the Eucharist as a literal action.

But most Protestants don't take everything in the Bible as literal, not even the purest of the pure fundelmentalists do.

I take Jesus' instructions during the last super as literal but I, and many of my protestant brothers and sisters, see those intructions differently than you and your church does.

 

[Tzaousios]

But most Protestants don't take everything in the Bible as literal, not even the purest of the pure fundelmentalists do.

You would be surprised. It is the "purest of the pure" who are the most belligerent about it. However, a good deal of them hold a pretty strict literalism as the default position.

They reject the notion that they interpret or that any interpretation is needed. They do not pay much attention to genre and whether or not different genres use allegory or metaphor. The mentality seems to be that if any of those things are admitted, then one is somehow "denying" or "relativizing" Scripture as the authority for the Christian faith.