How do Lutherans view Jehovah Witnesses?

[Matt Faith]

One of my closest friends is a Jehovah Witness, and we recently got into an argument over the trinity. He claims Jesus was not God. He also implied that Lutherans seem to talk too much about Jesus, and not enough about God the father.

Do any of you know Jehovah Witnesses? And whats your feeling on their interpretation of the scriptures? Is there any basis for what they are saying?

 

[cerette]

JW is a false religion, and no there is no Biblical ground for their claims. They don't get their stuff from the Bible, they get it from their leaders in Brooklyn New York.
I know a bunch of JW and they only talk in circles and there is no way one can reason with them.
If you talk with JW's about Jesus you should first make sure you understand what they mean when they say Jesus. Their Jesus is not the same as the Jesus we learn about in the Bible.

 

[Moses Medina]

They are indeed are a false religion. A heresy. The history is out there to read. They have their own translation of the bible as well. Out of all the translations out there, there's is the ones with the obvious changes. Specifically john 1:1 and john 1:14

 

[filosofer]

John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

In being addressed as God, if Jesus was not God but perfect (claim of JW), then Jesus should have rebuked Thomas for the title. But Jesus does not.

A few others:

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Psalm 49:7 No man can by any means redeem his brother or give to God a ransom for him

Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

1 Timothy 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

 

[truefiction1]

It's a cult that uses strong anti-Christian propaganda to trap people who haven't yet come to know Who Christ is. Once a person is in their grasp, they become psychologically conditioned to a point where it becomes nearly impossible for them to have any respect for the thoughts and reasoning of those who do understand Who Christ is.

A girl that I loved as a young man belonged to the cult, along with her parents and siblings. It was a difficult and heart breaking breakup. But through it all I came to understand Who Christ is; Who God is. God is not the god of Jehovah's self-appointed witnesses. Their teachings tragically obscure the Gospel of Christ.

 

[DaRev]

I think most Lutherans view Jehovah's Witnesses through the peephole when they ring the doorbell.

 

[Matt Faith]

Jehovah Witnesses often use this to reject the trinity.

"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." -- John 14:28

 

[truefiction1]

Jehovah Witnesses often use this to reject the trinity.

"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." -- John 14:28

Yes, we know. There is a great deal more than meets the eye to this statement which many Christians probably don't understand. It has to do with the bodily "Ascension" of Christ into Heaven and the important implications of this for humanity.

Anyhow, statements such as this that were written down in the Bible are understood to pertain to the humanity of Christ, not His divinity. It must be interpreted in this way due to the fact that Christ clearly expresses His Divinity and equality with God throughout the rest of the Gospels.

The Apostle Paul understood this concept of Christ in His humanity, as he writes:

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!

(Philippians 2:5)

Don't let them fool you into thinking that Christians don't know what the Bible says. We know perfectly well what is in the Bible -- better than they do. This is why they stumble over passages like this and draw false conclusions more suited to their understanding of things.

 

[Matt Faith]

They are not fooling me. While I think there are good things about Jehovah Witnesses. I would describe my beliefs as Lutheran, and I attend a Lutheran church. And I have no plans on leaving the Lutheran faith either.

 

[filosofer]

Just as a note: whenever the JW visit house-to-house, I always invite them in (unless I am in the middle of a project). 25 years ago, the parsonage was a mile from the church, so no outward connection. Our house was on their “training route.” I enjoyed visiting with them and sharing Scriptures. The visits were always cordial. Usually after 20-30 minutes of talking they would find a reason to leave.

Our son had been interested in one of the young women (very nice teenager), but he realized the problem of faith.

 

[alexnbethmom]

we live right next door to the church - we never have any JWs or mormons visit, lol.....

someone told me once that if you have a "i support Lutheran schools" sticker in your window, they tend to leave you alone, lol.....

 

[DaRev]

I once had a Moonie stop by trying to sell me a sun catcher.

 

[Luther073082]

To answer the question, they are not Christian.

we live right next door to the church - we never have any JWs or mormons visit, lol.....

someone told me once that if you have a "i support Lutheran schools" sticker in your window, they tend to leave you alone, lol.....

We live a couple miles from one and they have visited often on Saturday mornings. Typically when we havn't even changed out of our PJ's because it's freaking Saturday.

I've thought of hanging up the Athanasian Creed or even maybe just ignoring them and reciting it to them when they come to the door.

My wife has discussed taping a steak around their ankles and letting Luther (or dog) play with them.

A lot of times though we will actually sit and continue to watch TV and ignore their knocks even though they are right there and can tell we are home.

We've also considered a no soliciting sign. I wonder if that would work?

 

[bulldog129]

To answer the question, they are not Christian.



We live a couple miles from one and they have visited often on Saturday mornings. Typically when we havn't even changed out of our PJ's because it's freaking Saturday.

I've thought of hanging up the Athanasian Creed or even maybe just ignoring them and reciting it to them when they come to the door.

My wife has discussed taping a steak around their ankles and letting Luther (or dog) play with them.

A lot of times though we will actually sit and continue to watch TV and ignore their knocks even though they are right there and can tell we are home.

We've also considered a no soliciting sign. I wonder if that would work?

Instead of simply ignoring them, try to engage them in conversation. The LC-MS does put out material about JW's. Make sure you know what they will ask and respond by pointing them to Scripture for the truth.

We have done this before and onetime a younger member of their group went completely off his script and asked genuine questions about what we were saying. Since that happened, they have not been back.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Instead of simply ignoring them, try to engage them in conversation.

I do. And the "conversation" goes like this, always. Ditto with the obligatory American Mormon missionaries that come knocking come summer.

JWs: You need Jesus Christ in your life.
Me: Indeed, I do! Which is why I'm a lifelong member of the Christ-centered Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland.
JW's: ... But, but, but, for real salvation, you need to become a member of the JW movement and contribute some cash.
Me: Oh-kay... So the "salvation" you offer is conditional and in order to get it, I need to outsource my salvation (and money) to your movement?
JWs: ...

 

[alexnbethmom]

a retired pastor i know invited a couple of them into his house once when they knocked, offered them refreshments, and for 30-40 minutes talked to them, countering everything they said with scripture. nobody ever showed up again after that.....

 

[Luther073082]

Instead of simply ignoring them, try to engage them in conversation. The LC-MS does put out material about JW's. Make sure you know what they will ask and respond by pointing them to Scripture for the truth.

We have done this before and onetime a younger member of their group went completely off his script and asked genuine questions about what we were saying. Since that happened, they have not been back.

Ehh I support people who do that, but on the other hand I'm just not the type of person that desires to engage in a debate with a person at the door of my house in my pajamas.

And my wife would freak out if I invited people in before she was showered and properly dressed.

 

[Luther073082]

I do. And the "conversation" goes like this, always. Ditto with the obligatory American Mormon missionaries that come knocking come summer.

JWs: You need Jesus Christ in your life.
Me: Indeed, I do! Which is why I'm a lifelong member of the Christ-centered Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland.
JW's: ... But, but, but, for real salvation, you need to become a member of the JW movement and contribute some cash.
Me: Oh-kay... So the "salvation" you offer is conditional and in order to get it, I need to outsource my salvation (and money) to your movement?
JWs: ...

One's around here just want you to visit their church. No thanks. . . I went to a JW church for a funeral once (we had a neighbor a while back who was JW) and I have little desire to attend their church.

 

[Sean611]

Unfortunately I was raised a Jehovah's Witness (never baptized) and it took a long time after I left to finally rid myself of all their teachings and to visit an actual christian church.


Since I am an Anglican and not a Lutheran, I won't answer how Lutheran's view Jehovah's Witnesses, however, I can give everybody some advice on how to reach Jehovah's Witnesses.


As others have mentioned, JWs are very hard to argue with about theology since they talk in circles and have little interest in what you have to say and why you believe what you believe. Everything they believe is dictated by the governing body located in New York. Everything contained in the bible is to be read with an aid that was written by the governing body and those who work with them in New York. They are not to disagree with any of these teachings.


In order to actually reach Jehovah's Witnesses you must shake their faith in the governing body as the governing body is everything to them (God's mouthpiece on earth). Fortunately there is a plethora of information to share with JWs about the governing body that is sure to at least get them thinking.


First of all, one of their most prized booklets is the "Should You Believe in the Trinity." This booklet is packed full of false quotes and sources that can be easily shown to have been taken out of context. The amount of misquoted sources is truly staggering. Ask the JWs "if the Trinity is such a false doctrine, then why did the governing body misquote and misrepresent so many sources in this booklet?" I have actually printed the information off of the second website and will show it to them, they are usually left speechless. The governing body does this stuff all the time and is rampant in most of their publications.


Watchtower misquotes regarding the Trinity

Examining - "Should You Believe In The Trinity" a JW Booklet


Another way to show the JW the errors of the men in New York is to show them all the failed prophecies:


Failed date predictions of Jehovah's Witnesses


Lastly, show them how the governing body has flip flopped over the years on the important issue of blood transfusions:


Jehovah's Witnesses Flip Flop on Blood transfusions!


It won't be easy to show them just how big of liars and deceivers the boys in New York are, as many of them are heavily brain washed. However, even if you can plant the slightest seed of doubt, it can eventually grown and lead them to asking more questions. I hope this helps!

 

[Lupinus]

Knocking on doors. I hate folks knocking on doors.

I am usually more than happy to discus such things, but few things grate me like folks knocking on my door and informing me I am presently damned to hell, and if I'd like to fix that. It rubs me the wrong way, and I can't think of a single person I know who it doesn't rub the wrong way.

My usual recourse is to politely decline, and since I live in an apartment complex with a lot of elderly folks who tend to get spooked easily by random young men knocking on doors, pointed out the no soliciting sign. The one which these two fully admitted to seeing. And politely asked they respect it and move on.

The one, who seemed to be filling the side kick role, felt the need to make mention of his second amendment rights to practice their religion.....

I kept my composure, at least I'm pretty sure I did, while giving him a civics lesson. A thorough civics lesson. I'm rather fond of that particular amendment, along with the one he was searching for.

I'm pretty sure the lesson earned me a place on their avoid at all costs list.