Those unions watching out for their workers...

[variant]

It's just that we have a different perspective on the purpose for a business.

If the idea was to make money by making products that people want they failed at that too.

 

[MachZer0]

If the idea was to make money by making products that people want they failed at that too.

When you are making a product tat people no longer want, you go out of business. That appears to be what is happening to Hostess.

 

[[serious]]

When you are making a product tat people no longer want, you go out of business. That appears to be what is happening to Hostess.

Exactly, not due to unions. I'm glad you've come around. The rest of this saw this same idea brought up on the first page of the thread.

 

[mathetes123]

This is exactly the shell game corporations play. They go bankrupt, fail to repay creditors, investors, and employee pensions, and then these same management folks reappear in another corporate structure, having plucked what little fruit was left off of the previous company. Just as Donald Trump has had different businesses declare bankruptcy, yet profiting while failing to repay investors, and restructuring assets to avoid liability.

The free markets advocates don't seem to have any ethical qualms about how money is "earned", their definition seems to be - if it is legal (even if only due to what are considered by most to be loopholes), it is de facto ethical. We have a system where bribery is codified (lobbying), personal accountability is limited (bankruptcy), and wages have been significantly disconnected from value added from labor - and yet the only problem our resident "free market advocates" have is government investment in green energy.

It is the socialist/Marxist advocates who have no appreciation for how money is earned, taking the fruits of ones labor to redistribute to another to buy their vote.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It is the socialist/Marxist advocates who have no appreciation for how money is earned, taking the fruits of ones labor to redistribute to another to buy their vote.

Romney tried to sell that narrative to his donors too. It wasn't received too well by the public. Yet it seems that there are people who actually believe it.

 

[dies-l]

When you are making a product tat people no longer want, you go out of business. That appears to be what is happening to Hostess.

And, that's what it really boils down to. There is just so much competition in the snack cakes market, and people really aren't going to pay premium prices for a product that doesn't taste any better and isn't any healthier than the less expensive competitor's product. All Hostess really had to separate themselves from the pack was history and nostalgia. Nostalgia might generate the occasional sale, but it isn't the type of thing that keeps a product line on the shelves. You really can't blame the unions or the workers for that. It is management's task to stay ahead of the curve.

That said, I assume that someone will buy the Twinkies brand and perhaps a few others, but I would bet that many of the brands that Hostess made will be gone forever.

 

[mathetes123]

Romney tried to sell that narrative to his donors too. It wasn't received too well by the public. Yet it seems that there are people who actually believe it.

Doesn't say much for the voting public, does it?

 

[Thekla]

Define overvaluing

Why do you assume that some payrates are not overvalued (mgmt) and others (lower level employees) are ?

How do you decide what is and is not a fair valuation ?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Doesn't say much for the voting public, does it?

If the GOP carries contempt for the voting public with it to the next election, doesn't bode well for the GOP.

 

[mathetes123]

Why do you assume that some payrates are not overvalued (mgmt) and others (lower level employees) are ?

How do you decide what is and is not a fair valuation ?

The free market forces of supply and demand determine what a fair valuation is. A fair wage is what people are willing to work for.

 

[mathetes123]

The free market forces of supply and demand determine what a fair valuation is. A fair wage is what people are willing to work for.

The former communist soviet union tried a centrally controlled economy where the government set wages. How well did that work for them?

 

[Assyrian]

The free market forces of supply and demand determine what a fair valuation is. A fair wage is what people are willing to work for.

So exploitation of desperation equates to 'fair'?

 

[trunks2k]

Would YOU take the deal?

I like this line:

It will be hard to replace the job I had, but it will be easy to replace the job they were trying to give me.

He's got a point.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The free market forces of supply and demand determine what a fair valuation is. A fair wage is what people are willing to work for.

What if circumstances are such that the wage agreed to stems from a pre-existing power imbalance? If, for instance, I offer you water in the desert in exchange for all your property, and you accept my offer (because you are desperate and don't want to die of thirst), then would that be a "fair" deal?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The former communist soviet union tried a centrally controlled economy where the government set wages. How well did that work for them?

No one is suggesting that we emulate the Soviet model. This is a strawman.

 

[mathetes123]

So exploitation of desperation equates to 'fair'?

No one is being exploited. They are not forced to work for hostess and are perfectly free to seek employment elsewhere.

 

[mathetes123]

No one is suggesting that we emulate the Soviet model. This is a strawman.

How do you propose the perceived imbalance be corrected if not more government regulation?

 

[mathetes123]

No one is suggesting that we emulate the Soviet model. This is a strawman.

You voted socialist/Marxist into office.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You voted socialist/Marxist into office.

No one voted a Socialist/Marxist into office. This paranoid fantasy is getting out of hand.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

How do you propose the perceived imbalance be corrected if not more government regulation?

Do you think my proposal is made "fair" if you accept it?