Why is faith a requirement?

[elman]

Basically, faith is a requirement for salvation because making one's self available to God for salvation is a relational construct. We are not getting into heaven based on our intelligence or collection of good works (although God does value those aspects of our faith response.) Rather, we are getting into heaven by 'relating with' God through the open door that Jesus provides us.

2PhiloVoid

Not what Jesus taught. matt 25:31 and following.

 

[Leap]

As per the title; why is faith a requirement for salvation? Why not reason? Of course, I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive; obviously many religious beliefs are attained through using the capacity for reason. However, there is much in the Bible that defies reason and thus faith in certain doctrines is preferred over reason. For example, in order to be a Christian I must believe that Jesus rose from the dead. My reason tells me this just does not happen in reality.

If Christianity is true then there must be some reason why God prefers unwavering faith over rational analysis. It cannot be for moral reasons because, outwardly at least, Christians are no more moral than non-Christians. To paraphrase Hitchens, there is no moral action that a religious person can undertake that cannot also be done by a non-religious person. So there must be another reason that faith is the preferred human response to God's message.

Because God said so.

If you are asking for speculation why, well then you are asking people to disregard faith and instead seek a reason-based answer....which is encouraging them into heresy. It is enough that God said so.

 

[salida]

God isn't limited by natural law. He did rise.

Morals, where they come from
If you leave God and the Ten Commandments out of the picture, you will more than likely say that these practices are wrong because society says they are. If that's what you believe, then you have to concede that what Hitler did was morally okay. He killed eleven million people – with the sanction of the German people. He was voted in as the supreme ruler, and what he did was therefore legal. So according to this philosophy what he did wasn't wrong. That's the corner into which we paint ourselves, if we say that
morality is determined by the majority. Before 1962, the crime of sodomy was a felony in every state in the U.S., punishable by a long term in prison, often with hard labor. The majority said that sodomy was extremely wrong, but society's perception toward it has radically changed. The problem with a society that has no moral absolutes is that it predictably slides down a path of degeneration. It doesn't become morally better; it becomes worse. Nazism and pedophilia become the norm, and consequently, the Bible is
hated because it condemns any form of immorality and tells us that there are moral absolutes.

Does Christianity Lead to True Morality or Just Obedience from Fear? – Creation Revolution

The Failure of Atheism to Account for Morality
http://carm.org/failure-of-atheism-to-ac…

 

[salida]

The bible says you need faith.
Ro 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Ro 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

 

[LargeTrout]

Because God said so.

If you are asking for speculation why, well then you are asking people to disregard faith and instead seek a reason-based answer....which is encouraging them into heresy. It is enough that God said so.

Sorry, but I left my "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" attitude a few years ago. A few other people have said something similar to your comment in this thread too. Thanks, but no thanks. It's not really an answer - it's just an assertion that tells me you don't want to pursue any line of reasoning. That may be fine for you, and I'm not going to argue about it. But it just doesn't work for me any more.

 

[LargeTrout]

If that's what you believe, then you have to concede that what Hitler did was morally okay.

No, I don't. I don't believe that Hitler's holocaust was moral, no more than I believe that God's Noahic Flood was moral. Both are the same in my eyes - horrific genocides with no moral defence or justification.

He killed eleven million people – with the sanction of the German people. He was voted in as the supreme ruler, and what he did was therefore legal. So according to this philosophy what he did wasn't wrong. That's the corner into which we paint ourselves, if we say that morality is determined by the majority.

This logic is flawed for the simple fact that other nations were repulsed by the holocaust and its moral implications, and also by the fact that many Germans themselves were repulsed by the holocaust while it was going on around them.

Before 1962, the crime of sodomy was a felony in every state in the U.S., punishable by a long term in prison, often with hard labor. The majority said that sodomy was extremely wrong, but society's perception toward it has radically changed.

I'm not allowed to discuss or promote homosexuality as per the rules of this forum so I will refrain from commenting on this.

The problem with a society that has no moral absolutes is that it predictably slides down a path of degeneration.

There are many countries in Europe which are virtually religionless now. Are you telling me these societies are evil and degenerate? Some of them have the lowest crime rates in Europe just now. In fact, societies that are strongly religious seem to have higher crime rates.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ation-and-facts-about-secularism-and-religion

http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/atheist-dont-commit-as-much-crime-as-the-religious-do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...e-rates-vary-according-religious-beliefs.html

It doesn't become morally better; it becomes worse. Nazism and pedophilia become the norm, and consequently,

This is just scaremongering nonsense. For starters, the Bible's morality hasn't stopped Catholic Priests from engaging in massive amounts of child sex abuse.

I don't believe morality comes from the Bible or from a deity and we're not going to agree on this topic, so it's best we just get back to the topic I addressed in my OP. Thank you.

 

[LargeTrout]

I'm saying true born again from above, Holy Spirit filled Christians do not live in sin.

Just because one calls themselves a Christian does not mean that the Spirit of Christ dwells in them. If they live in sin then they are of another spirit, which is of the devil.

Your comments on this matter continue to isolate many people who believe they are "true" Christians yet struggle with sin. What if you found out your best friend, a "true" Christian, has struggling with porn all his life? Would you "encourage" him by telling him that he is clearly not a "true" Christian because he is living in sin? I doubt you would, if you truly care about this friend.

As I've said, I've known many Christians who have struggling with various problems, or sins, during their lives. I've always found that it's the ones who know they have a problem that are the genuine believers, the "true" Christians. The ones who don't care about their personal vices are those who aren't walking their talk.

 

[bling]

Why Faith:

If you base: “salvation on knowledge or works” then God would need to set it up with: everyone having the same “ability” and “opportunities”, so those that “succeed” would be winners and could take pride in their achievement!!

BUT “taking pride” is just the opposite of what we need before God.

“Faith” is not some arbitrary requirement God came up with, but is something man needs to help man to fulfill His earthly objective. All mature adults have a degree of faith (in the form of trust) even in self to do or not do some things. That ability to “trust” is all that is needed if directed toward a Benevolent Creator. The lowliest mature adult on earth can place trust in a benevolent Creator and it might even help to be a lowly person (brought down low like the prodigal son) to trust in a benevolent Creator.

That makes turning to the Creator in hopes of help a humbling action and that humility is great enough to accept the Creator’s charity (Love/mercy/grace/forgiveness). It takes humility to accept Charity.

God is not trying to get from us a “belief” in Him, but God is trying to give to us the greatest gift in all universes, but we do have to accept it as a pure undeserving gift, because that is what it is (Charity).

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

As per the title; why is faith a requirement for salvation? Why not reason? Of course, I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive; obviously many religious beliefs are attained through using the capacity for reason. However, there is much in the Bible that defies reason and thus faith in certain doctrines is preferred over reason. For example, in order to be a Christian I must believe that Jesus rose from the dead. My reason tells me this just does not happen in reality.

If Christianity is true then there must be some reason why God prefers unwavering faith over rational analysis. It cannot be for moral reasons because, outwardly at least, Christians are no more moral than non-Christians. To paraphrase Hitchens, there is no moral action that a religious person can undertake that cannot also be done by a non-religious person. So there must be another reason that faith is the preferred human response to God's message.

1. Faith is the ONLY thing that is required for salvation, because ALL OF THE WORK FOR SALVATION was accomplished by someone else on our behalf...that being , Christs merits and never our own. Such a thing can only be recieved by simply believing it was enough. The BIble says the ENTIRE salvation experience is from FAITH TO FAITH, beginning to end --- Romans 1:16-17 , and THIS IS the Gospel of Christ.

2. God requires Faith ONLY , so we cant take the credit for something which God intends and gives as a free gift. Applying one iota from ourselves, nullifies a free gift entirely.

3. Even Faith comes from God we are told in The BIble. That too, is a gift from God .

4. Grace means a TOTALLY free gift, so, infusing something with that by personal works, turns it into cheapened grace. Certainly not Gods perfect grace.

If anyone is going to heaven, its because of FAITH alone in what Christ DID ...and not what we can muster up.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Your comments on this matter continue to isolate many people who believe they are "true" Christians yet struggle with sin. What if you found out your best friend, a "true" Christian, has struggling with porn all his life? Would you "encourage" him by telling him that he is clearly not a "true" Christian because he is living in sin? I doubt you would, if you truly care about this friend.

As I've said, I've known many Christians who have struggling with various problems, or sins, during their lives. I've always found that it's the ones who know they have a problem that are the genuine believers, the "true" Christians. The ones who don't care about their personal vices are those who aren't walking their talk.

If I truly cared about him I would tell him the truth about sin, and the wages of sin, which is death.

Again a true Christian would not be struggling with porn, or living in sin. And I would not lie, or encourage him by saying it is alright to live in sin. But I would rather reprove him in the spirit of meekness and temperance that he turn from his sin and seek the Lord by faith and live.

Matthew 5:29-30

King James Version (KJV)

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

............

Again a true Christian would not be struggling with porn........

A true Christian could struggle with Porn or any number of sins ; but a true Christian would also take definitive actions to end the sins, turn from them completely by cooperating with Gods power, grace, and strength , and to find victory in restoration . A true Christian wants to lay them at the feet of Jesus and get washed by the shed blood of Christ.

But for the grace of God, go I .

Sin is a constant battle for as long as we are in the flesh ; one day, it will not longer be a problem, temptation, or concern. That day is called ; Graduation Day for the Christian when he/she enters Heaven .

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

A true Christian could struggle with Porn or any number of sins ; but a true Christian would also take definitive actions to end the sins, turn from them completely by cooperating with Gods power, grace, and strength , and to find victory in restoration . A true Christian wants to lay them at the feet of Jesus and get washed by the shed blood of Christ.

But for the grace of God, go I .

Sin is a constant battle for as long as we are in the flesh ; one day, it will not longer be a problem, temptation, or concern. That day is called ; Graduation Day for the Christian when he/she enters Heaven .

I suppose some have a different definition of a true Christian than others, as some are also even bias based on their own position in life, and not by faith in the Word of God.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.


1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[Leap]

Sorry, but I left my "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" attitude a few years ago. A few other people have said something similar to your comment in this thread too. Thanks, but no thanks. It's not really an answer - it's just an assertion that tells me you don't want to pursue any line of reasoning. That may be fine for you, and I'm not going to argue about it. But it just doesn't work for me any more.

You asked why, I told you. Whether this is something agreeable to you or not is besides the point.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

I suppose some have a different definition of a true Christian than others, as some are also even bias based on their own position in life, and not by faith in the Word of God.

..............

The Word of God is the standard to go by because it is inspired from a perfect Creator in nature,character, and person. Others can have their opinions, but they are just that...personal opinions.

A TRUE Christian according to Scripture is a Person who bases his trust in CHrists accomplishments on calvary alone...by applying faith or belief that it is in fact, sufficient . This is the Gospel of CHrist. Its all because of CHrist and Gods free gift in him. You recieve it on simple faith in a big God and big Savior.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The Word of God is the standard to go by because it is inspired from a perfect Creator in nature,character, and person. Others can have their opinions, but they are just that...personal opinions.

A TRUE Christian according to Scripture is a Person who bases his trust in CHrists accomplishments on calvary alone...by applying faith or belief that it is in fact, sufficient . This is the Gospel of CHrist. Its all because of CHrist and Gods free gift in him. You recieve it on simple faith in a big God and big Savior.

Except a man is born again of God's Spirit he shall in no way enter into the kingdom of God.

Any man can claim faith, but it is the Lord who decides is true. And whom the Lord chooses, He also seals by the Spirit of Christ.

And if a man truly be in Christ, will that same man also live in sin? God forbid. For Christ is not the minister of sin, but of righteousness.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Except a man is born again of God's Spirit he shall in no way enter into the kingdom of God.

Any man can claim faith, but it is the Lord who decides is true. And whom the Lord chooses, He also seals by the Spirit of Christ.

And if a man truly be in Christ, will that same man also live in sin? God forbid. For Christ is not the minister of sin, but of righteousness.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I agree totally with all those scriptures ; that is why i pointed out that a true Born Again Believer will WANT to overcome his sexual addiction or other lifestyle sin by escaping from it once he is in it. Christian stunble and fall you know...despite our best efforts sometimes. IM not making excuses for it, just saying that we still have an unshakable sin nature that goes with us till our dying day on earth.

 

[salida]

The most religious have the most crime? Not all religions are the same.

What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion?
What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion
Is religion the cause of most wars?
Is religion the cause of most wars?

Death by Government
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP1.HTM

(communism leads)
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.4.GIF

Athieism not religion has killed more
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/atheist_crimes.htm

I said my peace.

 

[LargeTrout]

The most religious have the most crime? Not all religions are the same.

What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion?
What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion
Is religion the cause of most wars?
Is religion the cause of most wars?

Death by Government
20TH CENTURY DEMOCIDE (Genocide and Mass Murder)

(communism leads)
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.4.GIF

Athieism not religion has killed more
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
MILITANT ATHEISTS/ATHEISM CRIMES AND EVILS OF COMMUNIST ATHEISM

I didn't actually mention anything about war. I was talking about civilian crimes, not state-wide atrocities. I'm not actually interested in whether atheists or religion has caused more war. I'm not responsible for the actions of other atheists, whether past, present or future. Nor do I hold you (or any other individual Christian) personally accountable for the actions of all other Christians, past, present and future.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Not what Jesus taught. matt 25:31 and following.

Sorry brother, but you are misconstruing what I mean by the word, 'relating.' Of course works are a part of our faith; I wouldn't discount those by a longshot. But we are not 'saved' by our collection of good works; good works do not erase our sins.

 

[elman]

Sorry brother, but you are misconstruing what I mean by the word, 'relating.' Of course works are a part of our faith; I wouldn't discount those by a longshot. But we are not 'saved' by our collection of good works; good works do not erase our sins.

God is the only one that save us, but we have been assured in several place in the bible and in the teachings of Jesus God will not do that for the wicked and unloving.