Is it hard?

[Rajni]

They call it morality, but it is a philosophy. You have yours and I have mine.
Morality is evaluated against an absolute standard.

How about in instances where what the religious and the nonreligious agree or overlap? For example, a religious and a non-religious person agree that it's wrong to kill people. Is the wrongness of killing people a philosophy or a morality?

 

[ChrisLeishy]

No religion, no morality.

lol jesus came to get rid of a religion that was flawed and since then people have tried to create more of them to make life harder. I thought Jesus came to free us. But yeah part of that freedom involves an attempt at morality in exchange for the gift it brings.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No religion, no morality.

That's not true.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

There is no need to do that. Just recognize it and obey it would be good enough. That is how a standard becomes a standard.

Atheist does not have a standard because everyone is asking WHY but no one can give answer to make everyone satisfied.

Have you seen how many different religious sects there are (just within your own religion)? What can't give an answer that makes everyone satisfied? Religion.

 

[mandelduke]

Is this forum only for the mentally challenged, or can anyone get in?

 

[juvenissun]

Have you seen how many different religious sects there are (just within your own religion)? What can't give an answer that makes everyone satisfied? Religion.

There are many denominations in Christianity. But they are all Christians. I guess you may not understand what is going on.

 

[juvenissun]

Is this forum only for the mentally challenged, or can anyone get in?

You are in. Welcome to challenge.

 

[juvenissun]

lol jesus came to get rid of a religion that was flawed and since then people have tried to create more of them to make life harder. I thought Jesus came to free us. But yeah part of that freedom involves an attempt at morality in exchange for the gift it brings.

What I meant (when talked to an atheist) is that every religion has its own moral standard.

 

[juvenissun]

How about in instances where what the religious and the nonreligious agree or overlap? For example, a religious and a non-religious person agree that it's wrong to kill people. Is the wrongness of killing people a philosophy or a morality?

Philosophy to atheists: Some people may still disagree.
Morality to Christian: Everyone agreed

 

[Rajni]

Philosophy to atheists: Some people may still disagree.
Morality to Christian: Everyone agreed

You mean all Christians agree that killing people is wrong?
Are you sure about that?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Each atheist has his own idea and "standard".

You don't get it. The ethical standard I'm talking about isn't an idea. It is the reality of what satisfies human needs for personal growth and maturation. It exists externally to my opinions.

True, we must conceptualize that standard in order to apply it to our lives, but any morality must be conceptualized, so that is nothing new.

Furthermore, you seem to be unaware that atheists may adhere in large numbers to a particular standard at least as consistently as members of religions. For instance, there are several million secular humanists, and they tend to agree pretty well on ethical issues.

There are many thousands of people who agree with me pretty closely on what the ethical standard is.

Very laughable.

Still laughing?

And the content of that is subject to debate and correction.

And that is a good thing, but that doesn't make the ethical standard any less objective.

And Christianity has absolutely no advantage here. Christian doctrines have been debated for millenia. Tell me, how many denominations of Christianity are there?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[juvenissun]

You don't get it. The ethical standard I'm talking about isn't an idea. It is the reality of what satisfies human needs for personal growth and maturation. It exists externally to my opinions.

True, we must conceptualize that standard in order to apply it to our lives, but any morality must be conceptualized, so that is nothing new.

Furthermore, you seem to be unaware that atheists may adhere in large numbers to a particular standard at least as consistently as members of religions. For instance, there are several million secular humanists, and they tend to agree pretty well on ethical issues.

There are many thousands of people who agree with me pretty closely on what the ethical standard is.



Still laughing?



And that is a good thing, but that doesn't make the ethical standard any less objective.

And Christianity has absolutely no advantage here. Christian doctrines have been debated for millenia. Tell me, how many denominations of Christianity are there?


eudaimonia,

Mark

I know that perfectly. That is what we call it humanity. And the challenge for you is to figure out why does it exist.

The problem I have with that is nobody can say that I am wrong when I make a different choice or decision which might go against the main stream idea (you just have to "tolerate" me). In any religion, one can clearly say something is wrong without further argument.

 

[juvenissun]

You mean all Christians agree that killing people is wrong?
Are you sure about that?

Except the situation of war. That has a different argument.
However, the argument should be done according to the Biblical teaching. In a sense, it is still a matter which is evaluated according to an absolute standard.

See, with a standard in front of you, the decision could still vary. Needless to say about the chaos when there is no such standard.

 

[Rajni]

Except the situation of war. That has a different argument.
However, the argument should be done according to the Biblical teaching. In a sense, it is still a matter which is evaluated according to an absolute standard.

See, with a standard in front of you, the decision could still vary. Needless to say about the chaos when there is no such standard.

Although, even with people who claim to be handling it according to Biblical teaching, the views among Christians as to what's biblical varies greatly. I've observed as much diversity of opinion within Christianity alone as I have across the overall religious spectrum.

 

[The Engineer]

I know that perfectly. That is what we call it humanity.

Wait, what?

That is what we call it humanity.

What?

...what we call it humanity.

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?!

And the challenge for you is to figure out why does it exist.

You mean, morality? I thought I already told you so. Rudimentary rules of morality are hard-wired into our brains, and we turn them into subjective standards using thought and experience.

The problem I have with that is nobody can say that I am wrong when I make a different choice or decision which might go against the main stream idea (you just have to "tolerate" me).

That's not true. We can still judge you according to our standards, and we can also judge which standard makes the most sense.

In any religion, one can clearly say something is wrong without further argument.

Then why do Christians still commit crimes, if they can instantly tell right from wrong?

 

[quatona]

I know that perfectly. That is what we call it humanity. And the challenge for you is to figure out why does it exist.

The problem I have with that is nobody can say that I am wrong when I make a different choice or decision which might go against the main stream idea (you just have to "tolerate" me). In any religion, one can clearly say something is wrong without further argument.

Cool advice. Thanks. I have changed my mind: I believe in God. God is the source of my morality. No more discussions, no way for you to say my morality is wrong.

 

[Elioenai26]

That's not true. We can still judge you according to our standards, and we can also judge which standard makes the most sense.

Can I judge you according to my standard, since you can judge me according to yours?

Then why do Christians still commit crimes, if they can instantly tell right from wrong?

Christians commit crimes for the same reason non-Christians commit crimes; because they choose to.

All people, believers and unbelievers, the godfearing and the godless know right from wrong. It is called a conscience and is given to us as an inherent part of our nature being created in the image of God.

 

[quatona]

Can I judge you according to my standard, since you can judge me according to yours?

As far as I can see you are doing it all the time. So, yes, quite apparently you can.

 

[The Engineer]

Can I judge you according to my standard, since you can judge me according to yours?

Yes, you can, but that doesn't mean your standard makes sense.

Christians commit crimes for the same reason non-Christians commit crimes; because they choose to.

Thanks for this insightful comment, Sherlock!

All people, believers and unbelievers, the godfearing and the godless know right from wrong. It is called a conscience and is given to us as an inherent part of our nature being created in the image of God.

What about sociopaths?

 

[drjean]

First let me say that I believe once you are a believer, you no longer "sin" as most people consider sin. (There are different words for sin in the Bible...) As believers--followers of Christ-- we do make mistakes and sometimes great errors, but He does not see them as sinful acts. Christ died for our sins, yes, yesterday today and forever... He changes not...all our sin Past Present and Future are covered by the blood of Christ and God Almighty does not see any of them, but they are filtered out through Christ Jesus' blood.

I think many Christians are so bogged down with worry about doing right, they don't have the freedom of the Holy Spirit to truly live their lives for Christ. We do not have that burden of sin any more... but are free and need to apologize or make amends or whatever and move on...in Christ! I think satan uses the idea of having to worry about whether we are doing right or not (in our regular Christian walk) as a way to prevent the average Christian from serving God fully. Just my POV.