The origin of the Altar Call...

[BFine]

The baptist church we attend here in Canada doesn't have altar calls...
it has after service one on one consultations.

I'm aware of Finney's ideas about the altar call; thankfully not all
listened or even heard of him....I hadn't ever heard of him until several years ago.

*Add on: My childhood church in NC was one that my great grandfather helped to build
in the early 1800's...according to Finney's bio etc...our little backwoods black church in NC wouldn't of
known about Finney. The minister was a man of the cloth called by God (no formal training from a seminary.)
I know in my father's family some of his relatives were either ministers or bishops...gosh my dad's family
tree is really old! LOL!

 

[briareos]

Pal Handy

There is nothing wrong with asking people to make a choice to
accept Jesus Christ by publicly acknowledging before men
that they have chosen Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior.

Where in scripture are we taught to tell people to publicly acknowledge God during the salvation process or in order to be saved? We def need to be able to acknowledge, but that is no means a requirement of salvation and not something we are taught to provoke others to do.

On the day of pentacost after Peter preached the gospel publicly,
about 3,000 men accepted Christ before witnesses and were baptized.

Certainly, but it isn't because they were told to.

Act2
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized;
and that day about three thousand souls were added to them

Certainly, baptism comes after salvation.

Jesus spoke about our need to confess Him before men.

In order to be saved to begin with? I think not. It's something Christians are just supposed to do, it's not the means of attaining salvation and it wasn't a test placed for prospects of salvation to pass.

Jesus knew that what is in a man's heart will be expressed in his actions.
Jesus knew that those who were willing to confess Him before men
had made the choice to follow Him and accept Him as Lord.

Certainly, I just find no reason for such outward display to be the means by which people receive Jesus and definitely not let that become something we think is required to receive him. Rather it's simply believing and receiving, acting like a Christian comes after.

Matthew 10
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.

Certainly, but this isn't a formal requirement of receiving him.

So what better way to confess Jesus before men
then after hearing the gospel, going forward in declaration before men
who are a witness to your decision that you truly have accepted the gospel as
God's truth as you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior.

What better way? I think this is only a perfect way to establish traditions and methods and prescriptions and teach people to trust and believe in things and methods rather than in God. What better way is there than to believe in him with your heart and receive him? This is the sort of thing that makes us think we have to raise our hands at certain times during the service, that we have to close our eyes while praying, that we have to stand at certain times, that the pastor or choir leader tells us when to stand, sit, kneel, close our eyes or raise our voices and we foolishly begin to believe that we are supposed to obey and supposed to do these things and these methods and traditions contain some degree of Godliness and they do not. They are forms that allow us to express what Godliness is inside of us. God is not contained in these things. Broken hearts and spirits are what he wants, willing hearts. People begin to think that because these methods and traditions fail... that God failed and they lose faith in him.

Finney did not invent the alter call but mearly followed Christ's
declaration that those that confess Him as Lord before men, He will
confess that He accepts them before His Father in heaven.

Well Jesus did not prescribe a formal tradition of doing something or requiring something, that's something else entirely. Jesus didn't tell Finney or anyone else to tell people to walk down front or find a crowd or let such a crowd know in order to receive him.... establishing something like this as part of the process is a distraction and a very dangerous one. Wooden benches, chairs in the front, crowds, words, movements in our body do not save people... but these sort of things teach us that they do.

 

[briareos]

The idea begins to be that we have to create a scenario in order to cry out to God or receive his help and that is not so.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I've always ben confuse as to what exactly an altar call is. >.<

I know at our current church at the end of the sermon the pastor has the elders come up and he asks that if anyone wants to come up for prayer to come do so. Or if there are non-believers that if they feel lead, they should come up and be lead to salvation.

I've never really gone up except when I was younger and my parents were having me prayed over to be healed.

 

[Albion]

I've always ben confuse as to what exactly an altar call is. >.<

I know at our current church at the end of the sermon the pastor has the elders come up and he asks that if anyone wants to come up for prayer to come do so.

That wouldn't be an altar call, IMO.

Or if there are non-believers that if they feel lead, they should come up and be lead to salvation.

That would be an altar call, I'd guess, but it seems like the impact of the altar call is lost if the pastor tries to kill two birds with one stone like this. The problem is that altar calls are appropriate when the audience is made up of people of all walks of life who've come out to hear a travelling preacher, as was once common on the American frontier or in Wesley's day when so many were unchurched. Billy Graham's crusades may have been the last good example of that sort of thing. But in today's average Methodist congregation, on any given Sunday there may not be a single unsaved adult in the audience.

 

[seeingeyes]

The problem is that altar calls are appropriate when the audience is made up of people of all walks of life who've come out to hear a travelling preacher, as was once common on the American frontier or in Wesley's day when so many were unchurched. Billy Graham's crusades may have been the last good example of that sort of thing. But in today's average Methodist congregation, on any given Sunday there may not be a single unsaved adult in the audience.

This brings up a very good point.

The altar call may have been used as, like, a mini-discipleship. If a traveling preacher was going to be moving on later that week, he would have wanted to secure a confession of faith from his hearers, not because this one confession equals faith in Jesus, but because this public profession might spur the hearer on to further action after the preacher leaves.

 

[briareos]

Finney used something called an anxious chair, if you were anxious to receive Christ you had to be put to the test because if you weren't willing to stand for Jesus in public you weren't really willing to serve him at all. This began the popularization of the Altar Call... it provoked people through persuasion and a subtle form of manipulation. I think it fames items, objects, people, actions and defames the person and actions of our Lord and Savior and it simply doesn't consider that you can be saved in your home, alone on your knees or standing or sitting or running or jogging or while playing a video game or sipping tea, or on the the road, wherever the spirit of the Lord finds you. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved and if we begin to add these sort of established traditions it very slowly erodes simple liberating principles like that.

 

[Albion]

Finney used something called an anxious chair, if you were anxious to receive Christ you had to be put to the test because if you weren't willing to stand for Jesus in public you weren't really willing to serve him at all. This began the popularization of the Altar Call... it provoked people through persuasion and a subtle form of manipulation. I think it fames items, objects, people, actions and defames the person and actions of our Lord and Savior and it simply doesn't consider that you can be saved in your home, alone on your knees or standing or sitting or running or jogging or while playing a video game or sipping tea, or on the the road, wherever the spirit of the Lord finds you. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved and if we begin to add these sort of established traditions it very slowly erodes simple liberating principles like that.

Hmm. I've never been part of a church that utilizes altar calls, but I don't see that they have any adverse effect on conversion experiences occurring under other circumstances, nor do I recall anyone who attends a church that uses them saying that altar calls are preferable in any way.

 

[briareos]

I doubt you'd see such things distinctly either, but I do think it subtly mars the way we perceive God and how we should conduct ourselves for him. I noted the way Finney used it, that was many long years ago and it probably doesn't happen like that too much anymore but that sort of thing did play a large part of us adopting this tradition.

I am not for the removal of the Altar Call, but rather for the removal of the idea that we really need such traditions.

 

[Albion]

I am not for the removal of the Altar Call, but rather for the removal of the idea that we really need such traditions.

Has it been established that anyone is saying we absolutely need such a practice?

If not, it looks from here like there's some straining to find a reason to fault altar calls.

 

[seeingeyes]

Finney used something called an anxious chair, if you were anxious to receive Christ you had to be put to the test because if you weren't willing to stand for Jesus in public you weren't really willing to serve him at all. This began the popularization of the Altar Call... it provoked people through persuasion and a subtle form of manipulation. I think it fames items, objects, people, actions and defames the person and actions of our Lord and Savior and it simply doesn't consider that you can be saved in your home, alone on your knees or standing or sittle or running or jogging or while playing a video game or sipping tea, or on the the road, wherever the spirit of the Lord finds you. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved and if we begin to add these sort of established traditions it very slowly erodes simple principles like that.

I think that this is true. And I think that if you keep your eyes peeled you will find it in all kinds of church traditions that go all the way back to the audience of the apostles. Human beings like precision. We like efficiency. We like exact judgements. Saved or not saved. Sin or not sin. Guilty or not guilty. Right or wrong.

We find comfort and surety in these determinations, instead of finding comfort and surety in our God. It's no wonder the Israelites turned to idols. With a little silver god, at least you could be certain whether it preferred cheese or corn as a sacrifice, without adding in all this messy business of the heart.

Our God, in His kindness, gave the law to His children so that they could at least point their fingers in a generally correct direction. And our God, in His kindness, gave His son and His spirit to His children so that they could stop pointing their fingers altogether, and just look up at Him.

So if you feel that your eyes are being opened to these things, brother, be very careful not to hold contempt in your heart for those who keep to these 'extra' steps (and yes, I know it's hard - we like to be right). God's Word cannot be eroded by the well-intentioned ignorance of man, because His Word is life and love and sacrifice. All who seek His face will find Him - no matter what pastor x says. And even pastor x is not outside of God's grace.

Peace, brother

 

[briareos]

Wise words, thanks for sharing them with us.

 

[Pal Handy]

Pal Handy

Where in scripture are we taught to tell people to publicly acknowledge God during the salvation process or in order to be saved? We def need to be able to acknowledge, but that is no means a requirement of salvation and not something we are taught to provoke others to do.

Certainly, but it isn't because they were told to.

Certainly, baptism comes after salvation.


In order to be saved to begin with? I think not. It's something Christians are just supposed to do, it's not the means of attaining salvation and it wasn't a test placed for prospects of salvation to pass.

Certainly, I just find no reason for such outward display to be the means by which people receive Jesus and definitely not let that become something we think is required to receive him. Rather it's simply believing and receiving, acting like a Christian comes after.

Certainly, but this isn't a formal requirement of receiving him.

What better way? I think this is only a perfect way to establish traditions and methods and prescriptions and teach people to trust and believe in things and methods rather than in God. What better way is there than to believe in him with your heart and receive him? This is the sort of thing that makes us think we have to raise our hands at certain times during the service, that we have to close our eyes while praying, that we have to stand at certain times, that the pastor or choir leader tells us when to stand, sit, kneel, close our eyes or raise our voices and we foolishly begin to believe that we are supposed to obey and supposed to do these things and these methods and traditions contain some degree of Godliness and they do not. They are forms that allow us to express what Godliness is inside of us. God is not contained in these things. Broken hearts and spirits are what he wants, willing hearts. People begin to think that because these methods and traditions fail... that God failed and they lose faith in him.



Well Jesus did not prescribe a formal tradition of doing something or requiring something, that's something else entirely. Jesus didn't tell Finney or anyone else to tell people to walk down front or find a crowd or let such a crowd know in order to receive him.... establishing something like this as part of the process is a distraction and a very dangerous one. Wooden benches, chairs in the front, crowds, words, movements in our body do not save people... but these sort of things teach us that they do.

You have taken the scriptures I posted and discounted them all
just to prove to yourself that an alter call is not of God so be happy
and do as you desire.

In todays society people are ashamed of those moves of God that brought
thousands to the Lord in huge meetings in which the Holy Spirit moved
and men came out of their comfort zones and made public declarations for
Christ just as they did on the day of Pentecost.

The alter call is God moving in the hearts of men.

The alter call is nothing more than an invitation from a preacher
of the gospel inviting people put faith into action and to move on the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

I am sure you have lead thousands to the Lord as God has given
you the gift to preach the gospel with His power and authority
under the prompting of the Holy Spirit so that men publicly
acknowledge Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior.

Stop knocking others and stop acting as if others had it all
wrong in the methods they used as they were doing the
work that God had called them to.

If you are content in trying to make it so easy for people
so that they do not have to do anything, then make sure God has
called you to that work and it is not spawned in your own thoughts.

Show me one scripture that would be against men being given a chance
to publicly declare their faith in Christ.

The "alter call" as you call it has so much wisdom built into it.
1 It causes people to see the depth of commitment needed to follow Christ.
2 It cause people to take an open stand for Christ before family, neighbors, friends and even strangers.
3 Those that respond can be identified by those who are there to help them understand
their commitment and the gospel can be explained clearly through the scriptures.
4 Any question raised can be answered by the workers who are there for support.
5 Those who come forward can be prayed with for God to touch them and confirm His salvation to them.
6 Those who choose Christ can be directed to local churches to help them grow.
7 Each person is given a copy of the New Testament and encouraged to read it for themselves.

Finney was a great EVANGELIST called by God to do what he did.
(look up evangelist in the Bible)

You should be so fortunate to have such wisdom to deal with masses of people that desired
to come into faith in Jesus Christ and to move forward in following Him.

Would you discourage one single person from responding to an alter call
simple because YOU THINK it has more to do with tradition rather than God's call?

Are you gathering or scattering?

What does this discussion do to promote Christ and unity in the body of believers?

Please take these debates into the debate area of the forum because
debates only bring strife and division and make it harder to give advice
to those who come here looking for Christ and not your opinions on alter calls.

 

[briareos]

This discussion takes our eyes off of things and other people and plants them securely on the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... that is what it does.

I have not condemned the altar call... I say it is traditional, it can hurt people and it should not be or required and we should never allow anyone to perceive that is was or is required and we should not train people to find security in traditions, items, actions... but rather in God.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

People do not have to respond to the altar call to be saved, but a chance to pray is always good.

 

[Pal Handy]

This discussion takes our eyes off of things and other people and plants them securely on the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... that is what it does.

I have not condemned the altar call... I say it is traditional, it can hurt people and it should not be or required and we should never allow anyone to perceive that is was or is required and we should not train people to find security in traditions, items, actions... but rather in God.

You are making your own traditions by looking down on
those great men who gave their lives for Christ and His gospel
by your calling their fresh moves of God useless traditions that do harm.

Brother, don't be so sure of yourself or you may end up becoming the very problem you accuse others of being.

Salvation is of the Lord and does not belong to you or your method so if
God was pleased to inspire Finney to call people forward to make a public
declaration of their faith, who are you to pick it apart?

Are you trying to coddle people into the kingdom?

Are you afraid that asking people to step out in faith and receive Christ might
frighten them away?

Perhaps you are not up to the task of being rejected by those who would renounce
you for preaching the gospel in the power and authority of Jesus Christ.

Let me tell you a fact, when you begin to challenge the forces of hell and really
preach the gospel and God's Spirit comes upon you and your ministry and convicts the souls of
men and provokes them to choose between the world and Christ,
you will know what it is to enter into the sufferings and persecutions
that come when you follow Christ's way and not you best practices.

Give up your opinions on God's ways that other men employed with great success
and find out what God has called you to do.

 

[briareos]

You have yet to regard everything I have said and you assume too much about me. What is the Altar Call to you? What is Charles Finney to you? I have done them no wrong, you have nothing to defend here. If you cannot see the goodness in what I am saying then I have nothing left to say.

 

[briareos]

I have knocked no one, I am not comfortable, I am not ashamed, I have not said anyone had it all wrong, easy vs not easy means nothing to me, I am discouraging no one, there is no debate or issue here until you entered.

You assume far too much and are far too concerned with other people's ideas and beliefs and are far too willing to make judgements on them.

 

[Pal Handy]

Well I already believe it isn't necessary but
now I am thinking it may not even be good.

I have knocked no one, I am not comfortable, I am not ashamed, I have not said anyone had it all wrong, easy vs not easy means nothing to me, I am discouraging no one, there is no debate or issue here until you entered.

You assume far too much and are far too concerned with other people's ideas and beliefs and are far too willing to make judgements on them.

I have not condemned the altar call... I say it is traditional, it can hurt people and it should not be or required and we should never allow anyone to perceive that is was or is required and we should not train people to find security in traditions, items, actions... but rather in God.

You gave me a discourse against my defense of calling people publicly...remember?
You gave your opinion of my opinion so I gave you some very good advice
so take what is good and move on.

What other advice do you seek?

 

[briareos]

You feel like I attacked Charles Finney and I did not, you feel like I attacked the Altar Call and that I want it condemned and you feel the need to ask me whether or not I would discourage people from responding to one and you feel like you need to weigh my own moral and Godly value by asking me questions about myself.

You misunderstand, you are responding passionately, not reasonably and you are the only calling anyone out.

I do disagree with what Finney did, that does not mean I think he was bad or terrible or an ungodly person. I do think the Altar Call should not be required, that does not mean I think it's very bad or evil in an of itself. I think it is unwise. Neither of these set me in strong opposition to anyone or anything.

We simply disagree, let's accept this and let it go.