Let's Talk About Hell (6)

[Timothew]

Second one:

Matthew 10:28

Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

​

Body and Soul will be destroyed in hell. Not burned alive forever in hell.

 

[dollarsbill]

The definition of apollmi and death.

I clearly pointed out the Biblical definition of death as opposed to YOURS.

 

[dollarsbill]

Second one:

Matthew 10:28

Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

​

Body and Soul will be destroyed in hell. Not burned alive forever in hell.

WILL is YOUR word. 'Able' does not mean 'will'.

 

[Timothew]

WILL is YOUR word. 'Able' does not mean 'will'.

It says what it says. Surely you can understand how a person is able to believe that body and soul will be destroyed in hell when Jesus says "fear him who is able to destroy body and soul in gehenna. Otherwise, why fear at all? It certainly does not say "fear him who will NOT destroy body and soul in Gehenna, but keep body and soul alive forever in hell being tortured."

It says "destroy", so that is two to zero in my favor.

Go to the third passage:
Matthew 13:30

First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up,
​

The greek word that is used is katakausai, which comes from katakaio, and it means to consume by burning, burn down. The tares are gone after they burned. The meaning is the same as in the last 2 verses, that the wicked will be destroyed. As Jesus says in verse 40,

So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
​

Just as the tares are destroyed by burning, the wicked people will be destroyed by burning, at the end of the age.

Do you believe this says anywhere that God is going to keep people alive forever and torture them in hell? I can tell you that it doesn't.

 

[dollarsbill]

Matthew 13:30

First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up,
​

The greek word that is used is katakausai, which comes from katakaio, and it means to consume by burning, burn down. The tares are gone after they burned. The meaning is the same as in the last 2 verses, that the wicked will be destroyed. As Jesus says in verse 40,

So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
​

Just as the tares are destroyed by burning, the wicked people will be destroyed by burning, at the end of the age.

Do you believe this says anywhere that God is going to keep people alive forever and torture them in hell? I can tell you that it doesn't.

Now you're taking a parable literally, but not Luke 16. You're just not consistent.

 

[Timothew]

Now you're taking a parable literally, but not Luke 16. You're just not consistent.

Jesus interpreted this parable. See where it says in verse 40
"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age."?

Jesus is saying straight out that this is how it will be at the end of the age. And this cetainly doesn't say that God is going to burn dead people alive forever in hell.

So that's 3-0 in my favor.

 

[dollarsbill]

Jesus interpreted this parable. See where it says in verse 40
"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age."?

Guess He didn't need to 'interpret' Luke 16.

Jesus is saying straight out that this is how it will be at the end of the age. And this cetainly doesn't say that God is going to burn dead people alive forever in hell.

So that's 3-0 in my favor.

Aren't you the one who said it would be sin (abomination) for God to burn someone alive? Now you're saying He will???

 

[Timothew]

Guess He didn't need to 'interpret' Luke 16.

Aren't you the one who said it would be sin (abomination) for God to burn someone alive? Now you're saying He will???

This is different than burning someone alive and KEEPING them alive, don't you agree?

Can we move to the fourth passage? This is very clear:
John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

​

So either a person receives eternal life, or they perish. They die. They are not burned alive forever, they just perish.


This definitely doesn't say believe or burn alive forever when you die. I'm sure that you can see that this says perish, not burn alive forever in hell when you are dead.

 

[Timothew]

Guess He didn't need to 'interpret' Luke 16.

I guess not. Perhaps He thought it was clear enough from all of the rest of scripture.

 

[dollarsbill]

This is different than burning someone alive and KEEPING them alive, don't you agree?

You said that burning people alive would be sin for God.

Can we move to the fourth passage? This is very clear:
John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

​

So either a person receives eternal life, or they perish. They die. They are not burned alive forever, they just perish.

This definitely doesn't say believe or burn alive forever when you die. I'm sure that you can see that this says perish, not burn alive forever in hell when you are dead.

Both eternal life and eternal punishment are included in one verse:

John 3:36 (NASB)
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Being cast into the Lake of Fire does not mean 'cease to exist'.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Sooner or later you will have to face the fact that God does indeed burn humans alive. And He will do so out of righteousness and justice. And He won't have to ask anyone's permission.

 

[Timothew]

You said that burning people alive would be sin for God.

Both eternal life and eternal punishment are included in one verse:

John 3:36 (NASB)
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Being cast into the Lake of Fire does not mean 'cease to exist'.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Sooner or later you will have to face the fact that God does indeed burn humans alive. And He will do so out of righteousness and justice. And He won't have to ask anyone's permission.

I'm sorry, we were talking about John 3:16.
You said, "I offered to go over your list verse by verse."

According to John 3:16 there are two possibilities. Eternal Life or Perishing. This makes sense since perishing is the end of life, so No Eternal Life. And Eternal Life is life that doesn't end in perishing. The two possibilities are opposites. It wouldn't make sense for the two possibilities to be Eternal Life OR Eternal Life being tortured in hell.

I belive John 3:36 is on my list, we can discuss that in order when we come to it.

 

[Timothew]

Oops! John 3:16 was the fifth biblical proof of Conditional Immortality.

I accidentally skipped the 4th Proof, so here it is:
Luke 13:3

I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
​

Here, the greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which comes from the word apollumi, and means "to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish. Apoleisthe is the future tense form of apollumi which means will be utterly destroyed or will be killed.
What apoleisthe does not mean is "will be tortured alive forever."

Here is Jesus plainly saying that those who do not repent will perish. This is what I'm saying too. You see, the reason that I am not an eternal tormentalist is that I follow Jesus Christ and He is not an eternal tormentalist. This is a powerful verse because Jesus is saying the same words that would get me banned from CF if I posted them in the "General Theology" Forum. What Would Jesus Do? Probably get banned from CF!

 

[he-man]

Oops! John 3:16 was the fifth biblical proof of Conditional Immortality.

I accidentally skipped the 4th Proof, so here it is:
Luke 13:3

I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
​

Here, the greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which comes from the word apollumi, and means "to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish. Apoleisthe is the future tense form of apollumi which means will be utterly destroyed or will be killed.
What apoleisthe does not mean is "will be tortured alive forever."

Here is Jesus plainly saying that those who do not repent will perish. This is what I'm saying too. You see, the reason that I am not an eternal tormentalist is that I follow Jesus Christ and He is not an eternal tormentalist. This is a powerful verse because Jesus is saying the same words that would get me banned from CF if I posted them in the "General Theology" Forum. What Would Jesus Do? Probably get banned from CF!

But do not say that too loud or they might hear you!

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm sorry, we were talking about John 3:16.
You said, "I offered to go over your list verse by verse."

According to John 3:16 there are two possibilities. Eternal Life or Perishing. This makes sense since perishing is the end of life, so No Eternal Life. And Eternal Life is life that doesn't end in perishing. The two possibilities are opposites. It wouldn't make sense for the two possibilities to be Eternal Life OR Eternal Life being tortured in hell.

I belive John 3:36 is on my list, we can discuss that in order when we come to it.

actually john 3:16 has twice as many possibilities.

1)perishing=annihilation
2)perishing=eternal Hell
3)perishing=death with soul sleep
4)eternal life

 

[Timothew]

actually john 3:16 has twice as many possibilities.

1)perishing=annihilation
2)perishing=eternal Hell
3)perishing=death with soul sleep
4)eternal life

Four possibilities in John 3:16?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Perish or eternal life, that's two possibilities.

 

[createdtoworship]

Four possibilities in John 3:16?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Perish or eternal life, that's two possibilities.

there are many opinions of John 3:16

1)perishing=annihilation
2)perishing=eternal Hell
3)perishing=death with soul sleep
4)eternal life

 

[Timothew]

there are many opinions of John 3:16

1)perishing=annihilation
2)perishing=eternal Hell
3)perishing=death with soul sleep
4)eternal life

okay, there are many opinions. But only one truth

Ba-Zinga!

 

[createdtoworship]

okay, there are many opinions. But only one truth

Ba-Zinga!

but the truth is what we are debating, so your original statment is false. There are many choices, only one being correct.

 

[Timothew]

but the truth is what we are debating, so your original statment is false. There are many choices, only one being correct.

But I said that John 3:16 presents only two possibilities, and it does. Perhaps I should have said that John 3:16 presents two outcomes resulting from one choice.

Outcome #1: Believe in the Son of God, do not perish but have eternal life.
Outcome #2: Disbelieve in the Son of God, perish and do not have eternal life.

 

[dollarsbill]

I'm sorry, we were talking about John 3:16.
You said, "I offered to go over your list verse by verse."

According to John 3:16 there are two possibilities. Eternal Life or Perishing. This makes sense since perishing is the end of life, so No Eternal Life. And Eternal Life is life that doesn't end in perishing. The two possibilities are opposites. It wouldn't make sense for the two possibilities to be Eternal Life OR Eternal Life being tortured in hell.

I belive John 3:36 is on my list, we can discuss that in order when we come to it.

John 3:36 helps clarify John 3:16. Eternal life and eternal punishment in the same verse.