what messianic prophecies where not fulfilled by jesus?

[dfw69]

I just don't know why you would blame Jews for it though. A lot of your ideas seem to come back to the idea that Jews are evil/corrupting.

because christianity is against their ways....its dangerous doctrine....its preached by many believing jews back then.....Jesus was a jew...many believed he was the promised messiah....this is a big deal.....and the teachings are wicked and evil in the eyes of jews....cast off torah?....Jesus the messiah?....salvation by the cross?....eternal hell?..salvation and promises to gentiles?.....christianity hurts judaism to death....it must be crushed at all means posible.....clean up the mess so to speak....thats how i see it anyway.....the ideas i mention seem to suggest jews are evil....but we are all evil.....man is wicked....there are wicked rulers and leaders of this world...why is it so far fetched?.....

im not saying all jews are evil and corrupted by the law and torah teachings.....but when the line is drawn... men will see who are of God and who is of satan......for when this false messiah comes....then the world will know the truth.....all that are Gods will not obey him....all that belong to satan will follow falsehood and lies .....the very thing God forbids in the law they will do .....for they think they follow the law correctly....but they will stumble and fall under this messiah to come.....that is... those who dont know God way and truth....

 

[LoAmmi]

because christianity is against their ways....its dangerous doctrine....its preached by many believing jews back then.....Jesus was a jew...many believed he was the promised messiah....this is a big deal.....and the teachings are wicked and evil in the eyes of jews....cast off torah?....Jesus the messiah?....salvation by the cross?....eternal hell?..salvation and promises to gentiles?.....christianity hurts judaism to death....it must be crushed at all means posible.....clean up the mess so to speak....thats how i see it anyway.....the ideas i mention seem to suggest jews are evil....but we are all evil.....man is wicked....there are wicked rulers and leaders of this world...why is it so far fetched?.....

You know what history shows? Christians trying to crush Jews. Trying to force conversions. Taking the Torah scrolls, taking the Talmuds, burning them. Forcing them out of villages, out of countries. Killing them.

History would suggest that Judaism hurts Christianity to death as Jews are more than happy to be left alone but their Christian neighbors throughout history have wanted them gone.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The New Testament would have been the possession of Christians. In order for Jews to change it, they would have had to gain possession of it, and all copies. Why did the Christians allow this to happen?

So, like the Muslims, the Jews believe it was changed by Christians and thus corrupted?
The Muslims wrote most of their Koran from the Jewish/Christian bible.
Heck they even believe Jesus was born of a virgin [which is a alien concept to Judaism] butthey do not believe He was crucified to death. Thoughts?

.......

 

[dfw69]

You know what history shows? Christians trying to crush Jews. Trying to force conversions. Taking the Torah scrolls, taking the Talmuds, burning them. Forcing them out of villages, out of countries. Killing them.

History would suggest that Judaism hurts Christianity to death as Jews are more than happy to be left alone but their Christian neighbors throughout history have wanted them gone.

no ...christianity does not want to kill jews or judaism....conversion is a god given choice....what leaders have done in the past in the name of christianity is wrong,,,,and they will be judge.....

 

[LoAmmi]

So, like the Muslims, the Jews believe it was changed by Christians and thus corrupted?

No, I don't think it was changed at all. I think we have it in more or less the original condition. I have seen some arguments about a few lines being inserted into Mark I think and some other things like that.

DFW is arguing that it was changed.

 

[LoAmmi]

no ...christianity does not want to kill jews or judaism....conversion is a god given choice....what leaders have done in the past in the name of christianity is wrong,,,,and they will be judge.....

As I said, an objective look at history would suggest that it does. That said, I am quite understanding that it is not a belief in the religion, but something the people of the religion did. However, it is impossible to overlook just how widespread it was over all of Europe.

Judaism has no interest in killing Christians. Those that practice Judaism are usually quite happy to simply be left alone to their own beliefs and not be meddled with.

 

[dfw69]

You know what history shows? Christians trying to crush Jews. Trying to force conversions. Taking the Torah scrolls, taking the Talmuds, burning them. Forcing them out of villages, out of countries. Killing them.

History would suggest that Judaism hurts Christianity to death as Jews are more than happy to be left alone but their Christian neighbors throughout history have wanted them gone.

Loammi....jews want to be left alone today?....thats fine....but the new testament teaches the kingdom of heaven will be taken by force.....a dark age comes upon us when the false messiah comes and a false millenium....with the help of 10 kingdoms....he will rule in Jesusalem with the law and talmud throughout the kingdoms.....persecutions will come for jew and gentile unbelievers against his reign....the line will be drawn.....serve God or serve falsehood....its falsehood because Jesus said it would come first.....its the falling away from the faith....if you are wise .....you will take heed....many jews will rebel against him and be persecuted.....as with gentiles....the leaders of this world plan to create a world government.....and world currency under this false messiah.....Jesus said do not go after them....so the choice is yours to make....

 

[LoAmmi]

Loammi....jews want to be left alone today?....thats fine....but the new testament teaches the kingdom of heaven will be taken by force.....a dark age comes upon us when the false messiah comes and a false millenium....with the help of 10 kingdoms....he will rule in Jesusalem with the law and talmud throughout the kingdoms.....persecutions will come for jew and gentile unbelievers against his reign....the line will be drawn.....serve God or serve falsehood....its falsehood because Jesus said it would come first.....the falling away from the faith....if you are wise .....you will take heed....many jews will rebel against him and be persecuted.....as with gentiles....the leaders of this world plan to create a world government.....and world currency under this false messiah.....Jesus said do not go after them....so the choice is yours to make....

The New Testament makes no claims that the antichrist will rule "with Law and Talmud". Verse please or I ask you to stop making this accusation.

 

[dfw69]

The New Testament makes no claims that the antichrist will rule "with Law and Talmud". Verse please or I ask you to stop making this accusation.

really?....how else will the messiah reign?.....the scriptures say Israel will recieve another prophet or messiah....well....how will he come?....surly not like jesus ...who said all who come to me shall be saved.....but will come in the name of the law....to convince Jews he is the promised messiah.....they will not follow a man who is against the law and judaism.....he will build the temple.....and make the everlasting covenant....whatever that will be?......but the law will reign no doubt....

 

[LoAmmi]

really?....how else will the messiah reign?

By Law I am going to assume you mean Torah. So Torah and Talmud.

How about though brute force? How about through slaughtering people, threatening them? You know, the same way most oppressive regimes.

I really doubt they are going to use the Talmud or Torah for their regime.

Maybe they'll use the New Testament. Why not? That makes just as much sense.

 

[dfw69]

By Law I am going to assume you mean Torah. So Torah and Talmud.

How about though brute force? How about through slaughtering people, threatening them? You know, the same way most oppressive regimes.

I really doubt they are going to use the Talmud or Torah for their regime.

Maybe they'll use the New Testament. Why not? That makes just as much sense.

idk....but i doubt brute force will reign in Israel.....unless this brute forced is backed by the law....i can see the law misused to acomplish the peace and safety the leaders of the world seek to accomplish worldwide

How will the new testament work for the false messsiah of israel?....i dont see it

 

[dfw69]

if this false messiah comes and creates world peace without a drop of blood shed....well that would be a miracle

 

[LoAmmi]

idk....but i doubt brute force will reign in Israel.....unless this brute forced is backed by the law....i can see the law misused to acomplish the peace and safety the leaders of the world seek to accomplish worldwide

How will the new testament work for the false messsiah of israel?....i dont see it

How will the Talmud or Torah work for the false messiah?

• Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.

- Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 37a


What is hateful to thee, do not unto thy fellow; this is the whole law. All the rest is a commentary to this law; go and learn it. Tractate Shabat 30a.


Those two are real torture fodder right there, aren't they?



That the Mishnaic material is purely on the theoretical level can be seen from the oft-quoted statement (Mishnah Makkot 1:10): "A Sanhedrin that puts a man to death once in seven years is called destructive. Rabbi Eliezer ben Azariah says: even once in seventy years. Rabbi Akiba and Rabbi Tarfon say: had we been in the Sanhedrin none would ever have been put to death. Rabban Simeon ben Gamaliel says: they would have multiplied shedders of blood in Israel."




Woah! Look at those quotes. OPPRESSION GALORE!

 

[dfw69]

How will the Talmud or Torah work for the false messiah?

• Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.

- Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 37a


What is hateful to thee, do not unto thy fellow; this is the whole law. All the rest is a commentary to this law; go and learn it. Tractate Shabat 30a.


Those two are real torture fodder right there, aren't they?



That the Mishnaic material is purely on the theoretical level can be seen from the oft-quoted statement (Mishnah Makkot 1:10): "A Sanhedrin that puts a man to death once in seven years is called destructive. Rabbi Eliezer ben Azariah says: even once in seventy years. Rabbi Akiba and Rabbi Tarfon say: had we been in the Sanhedrin none would ever have been put to death. Rabban Simeon ben Gamaliel says: they would have multiplied shedders of blood in Israel."




Woah! Look at those quotes. OPPRESSION GALORE!

your confident that your leaders whom you trust will not stumble and cause israel to fall....well lets see when this next messiah comes that israel leaders will recieve...then lets talk....

 

[LoAmmi]

your confident that your leaders whom you trust will not stumble and cause israel to fall....well lets see when this next messiah comes that israel leaders will recieve...then lets talk....

What leaders? Who are we talking about?

 

[dfw69]

What leaders? Who are we talking about?

Zionist government of Israel?....the sanhedrine?.....idk....whoever decides the prophet is a prophet....or the messiah is the messiah....you tell me...

 

[LoAmmi]

Zionist government of Israel?....the sanhedrine?.....idk....whoever decides the prophet is a prophet....or the messiah is the messiah....you tell me...

Are you using Zionist as a pejorative here?

There is no universally recognized Sanhedrin right now.

The government of Israel? The elected, mostly secular government of Israel?

 

[dfw69]

Are you using Zionist as a pejorative here?

There is no universally recognized Sanhedrin right now.

The government of Israel? The elected, mostly secular government of Israel?

prejorative?....no...i dont know much about the government of israel....just that some jews here in US dont recognize or are against the zionist ways....ive seen some video....

but im just saying.....whatever they do to recognize and accept the messiah by law....will he come and convince and they just believe or is there a process?.....

an elijah must come before him....right?..if he will be false as jesus says....then a false elijah must come as well....so false prophets....

 

[LoAmmi]

but im just saying.....whatever they do to recognize and accept the messiah by law....will he come and convince and they just believe or is there a process?.....

an elijah must come before him....right?..if he will be false as jesus says....then a false elijah must come as well....so false prophets....

The process is the messiah completes the messianic task. All of it. No prophecy left behind. That is the process. If that happens, and it isn't Jesus, than Christianity is wrong. It is quite simple. If it happens and it is Jesus, Christianity was correct.

 

[dfw69]

The process is the messiah completes the messianic task. All of it. No prophecy left behind. That is the process. If that happens, and it isn't Jesus, than Christianity is wrong. It is quite simple. If it happens and it is Jesus, Christianity was correct.

so the man comes...elijah before him to prepare the way for hashem....then temple built....world peace.....then the jews recieve him?....so it could be years before he is recognized as the messiah