what messianic prophecies where not fulfilled by jesus?

[someguy14]

How can all worship God unless all come to God?

 

[someguy14]

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

God is love friend.

 

[LoAmmi]

We can either discuss the prophecies, as is the point of the thread, or you can give monologues with your platitudes. I have no interest in discussing those things.

 

[someguy14]

I am discussing the prophecies.

Psalm 137:4
How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strangehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/psalms/137.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-b land?

Name one you doubt and we can discuss.

How Israel was scattered? Prophesied already.
How Messiah is to bring all His own in one mind? All believers in God believe all of Gods words.

Is there anything your questioning about how Messiah should show you a sign?
How many signs do you require?
Do you believe Jonah?

 

[LoAmmi]

I am discussing the prophecies.

Psalm 137:4
How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?

Name one you doubt and we can discuss.

How Israel was scattered? Prophesied already.
How Messiah is to bring all His own in one mind? All believers in God believe all of Gods words.

Is there anything your questioning about how Messiah should show you a sign?
How many signs do you require?
Do you believe Jonah?

I doubt none of the prophecies. I do not seem them as having been fulfilled at this time.

 

[someguy14]

I doubt none of the prophecies. I do not seem them as having been fulfilled at this time.

What signs of prophecy do you require in order to believe?

 

[LoAmmi]

What do you mean?

 

[smaneck]

What signs of prophecy do you require in order to believe?

He already believes. He just doesn't believe the same things you do.

 

[smaneck]

All believers in God believe all of Gods words.

Really? Do you believe the Qur'an? The Baghavad-Gita? The Baha'i scriptures?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by someguy14 believers in God believe all of Gods words.

Really? Do you believe the Qur'an? The Baghavad-Gita? The Baha'i scriptures?

Why as a Christian should I be interested in other religion's writings instead of just the Bible?
Except perhaps purely for debating purposes.

...

 

[smaneck]

Why as a Christian should I be interested in other religion's writings instead of just the Bible?
...

I said this in response to the statement that a believer accepts *all* of God's Words.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Why as a Christian should I be interested in other religions' writings instead of just the Bible?

Perhaps for the same reason you seem to think Jews should be interested in the New Testament:

It's real easy to miss out on spiritual events if you're limiting your scope so much that you don't even notice statements about fulfilled prophecies and further Divine Revelation (which--meaning no offense--one cannot judge intelligently to the extent that one keeps a closed mind and refuses to investigate).

Peace,

Bruce

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Perhaps for the same reason you seem to think Jews should be interested in the New Testament:

It's real easy to miss out on spiritual events if you're limiting your scope so much that you don't even notice statements about fulfilled prophecies and further Divine Revelation (which--meaning no offense--one cannot judge intelligently to the extent that one keeps a closed mind and refuses to investigate).

Peace,

Bruce

Hello Bruce.
Concerning Jews and the NT, I found this article rather interesting

New Testament - My Jewish Learning

It is daunting to think of the number of books a Jew "must" read in order to achieve Jewish literacy. With trepidation I suggest yet another volume to add to that list: the New Testament (NT).

Anyone who lives in a country with a Christian majority (such as the United States or Canada) should acquire basic knowledge of the foundational literature of the dominant faith. Students of the arts need to know stories like the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), the raising of Lazarus (John 11:1-44), and the "passion" of Jesus (i.e. his trial, suffering, and death) or they will be at a disadvantage when studying many works of literature, art, and music. But there are also reasons why Jews, specifically, would gain from study of the New Testament. It is a rich source for a better understanding of Jewish history, Jewish thought, Jewish law, and the history of anti-Semitism.

 

[LoAmmi]

New Testament - My Jewish Learning

It is daunting to think of the number of books a Jew "must" read in order to achieve Jewish literacy. With trepidation I suggest yet another volume to add to that list: the New Testament (NT).

Anyone who lives in a country with a Christian majority (such as the United States or Canada) should acquire basic knowledge of the foundational literature of the dominant faith. Students of the arts need to know stories like the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), the raising of Lazarus (John 11:1-44), and the "passion" of Jesus (i.e. his trial, suffering, and death) or they will be at a disadvantage when studying many works of literature, art, and music. But there are also reasons why Jews, specifically, would gain from study of the New Testament. It is a rich source for a better understanding of Jewish history, Jewish thought, Jewish law, and the history of anti-Semitism.

One of the best things I ever did was read the New Testament (in multiple translations). Solidified my commitment to Judaism almost more than anything else.

 

[SanFrank]

Reasons to consider the Lord Christ as valid:

• From muslim perspective, Iran's revolutionary guard put out a book that prepares them for the last six months til the arrival of their imam who is supposedly accompanied by Isa (Christ). I don't need to point out the islamic rhetoric towards israel.
• Christ followed a timeline where He fulfilled some of the prophecies of Tanach.
• No prophet has been recognized by Israel since John the Baptist and one has to question the direction israel's leaders are taking not having divine guidance.
• There is no temple and from the Jewish perspective, no messiah has appeared since the last writing of Esra.
• The law on animal sacrifices has not been followed for over 2000 years and one has to question israeli loyalty to the tanach.
• Arabs will outnumber israelis inside palestine within 10 years. This means Arabs will then control the knesset and israel could no longer be called an israeli state, in a true sense.
• Events in the middle east are unfolding with uncanny similarity to events as described in Revelations, a testimony of Christ, but this is ignored.

The world, thru the muslim or christian perspective, has its eyes on the "return of Christ". Could he be the same Jewish Mashiach?

 

[smaneck]

Reasons to consider the Lord Christ as valid:

• From muslim perspective, Iran's revolutionary guard put out a book that prepares them for the last six months til the arrival of their imam who is supposedly accompanied by Isa (Christ). I don't need to point out the islamic rhetoric towards israel.

• 
  
  Source? As far as I know it is Sunni Muslims who expect Jesus to return with the Mahdi, not Shi'ites.
  
  

  [*]No prophet has been recognized by Israel since John the Baptist and one has to question the direction israel's leaders are taking not having divine guidance.

  
  Jews don't recognize John the Baptist as a Prophet.
  
  

  [*]Arabs will outnumber israelis inside palestine within 10 years. This means Arabs will then control the knesset and israel could no longer be called an israeli state, in a true sense.

  
  Only if the Israeli's give them the right to vote. So far, very few Arabs have that right.

 

[LoAmmi]

Reasons to consider the Lord Christ as valid

• Christ followed a timeline where He fulfilled some of the prophecies of Tanach.

There was no such timeline present in the Tanakh. It is only through a very specific interpretation of Daniel that people invent this timeline.

• No prophet has been recognized by Israel since John the Baptist and one has to question the direction israel's leaders are taking not having divine guidance.

John is not considered a prophet. The lack of prophets, those that speak to the people in correction mostly and clarification,has no effect on Judaism. We were not promised that prophets would exist continually.

• There is no temple and from the Jewish perspective, no messiah has appeared since the last writing of Esra.

And this proves what, exactly?

• The law on animal sacrifices has not been followed for over 2000 years and one has to question israeli loyalty to the tanach.

This does not matter. We were given the example of what to do when the Temple did not stand during the Babylonian Exile. It was not to give up hope and stop following the Torah. It was not to follow a new belief system. The Tanakh tells us we will be without sacrifice for a while. It does not give any time frame. However, the New Testament says Jesus will return soon, which requires Christians to define soon as any amount of time necessary.

• Arabs will outnumber israelis inside palestine within 10 years. This means Arabs will then control the knesset and israel could no longer be called an israeli state, in a true sense.

Irrelavant. There is nothing to indicate that the Israel of today is going to be the Israel of prophecy. Obviously, the prophecy says Jews will come to Israel, so you can either trust the prophecy or not.

• Events in the middle east are unfolding with uncanny similarity to events as described in Revelations, a testimony of Christ, but this is ignored.

Which events exactly?

 

[SanFrank]

There was no such timeline present in the Tanakh. It is only through a very specific interpretation of Daniel that people invent this timeline.

That interpretation is worth an objective look. The jewish world expected the appearance of the messiah specifically in those years that Christ appeared.

John is not considered a prophet. The lack of prophets, those that speak to the people in correction mostly and clarification,has no effect on Judaism.

The gospels record Pharisees believing John the Baptist was a prophet... proof enough for me.

We were not promised that prophets would exist continually.

You were not promised prophets would not exist continually too. The last minor prophet lived within 400 years of Christ but now over 2000 years have passed. This doesn't make sense unless you see things from a christian perspective.

And this proves what, exactly?

That a long, long, long time has passed. As told in Deuteronomy, Israel has been punished 7 times over bringing us to this present time. Again, it makes sense from a christian perspective because we are in the time of "bringing in the gentiles" also known as the time of grace; but also a time of punishment for the jewish nation for rejecting the messiah.

This does not matter. We were given the example of what to do when the Temple did not stand during the Babylonian Exile. It was not to give up hope and stop following the Torah. It was not to follow a new belief system. The Tanakh tells us we will be without sacrifice for a while. It does not give any time frame. However, the New Testament says Jesus will return soon, which requires Christians to define soon as any amount of time necessary.

Daniel spent his days praying that a new temple would be rebuilt for the purpose of sacrificing. He knew the period of exile would last 70 years. That was only the passage of one generation. Sacrifices are commanded and being exiled only punished those by keeping them from sacrificing. Now israel has repossession of those lands and a temple has not been rebuilt nor have sacrifices reinitiated. The commandment is to observe the feast days with animal sacrifices. There are no substitutes.

Irrelavant. There is nothing to indicate that the Israel of today is going to be the Israel of prophecy.

Perhaps; but you also avoid the Christ card.

 

[LoAmmi]

That interpretation is worth an objective look. The jewish world expected the appearance of the messiah specifically in those years that Christ appeared.

I do not think you are using "objective" here correctly. I do not believe the Jewish world expected the Messiah at that time because of Daniel but because of the suffering felt under the Roman empire. To say that the Jewish world thought it was a ticking clock leading to that time period would be misrepresenting the truth.

The gospels record Pharisees believing John the Baptist was a prophet... proof enough for me.

The Pharisees did not record that John was a prophet. It is proof enough for me that Judaism does not consider him a prophet.

You were not promised prophets would not exist continually too. The last minor prophet lived within 400 years of Christ but now over 2000 years have passed. This doesn't make sense unless you see things from a christian perspective.

Jesus has been gone for 2000 years and that can only make sense from a Christian perspective. The lack of prophets is not a problem in Judaism. It is a problem you are inventing and applying it to Judaism. Address the problems in your own religion and do not make ones up for mine.

That a long, long, long time has passed. As told in Deuteronomy, Israel has been punished 7 times over bringing us to this present time. Again, it makes sense from a christian perspective because we are in the time of "bringing in the gentiles" also known as the time of grace; but also a time of punishment for the jewish nation for rejecting the messiah.

If I read Deut., I see no punishment for rejecting the messiah. None at all. All the punishments are for not following the Torah, and the Torah never once says "Believe in the messiah" or "Follow the messiah". If you would like to find it, please show us all because I would be very, very happy to see that. Until then, the punishments are for failure to keep the Torah and the majority of Jews fail to keep the Torah today. Funny how that works.

Daniel spent his days praying that a new temple would be rebuilt for the purpose of sacrificing. He knew the period of exile would last 70 years. That was only the passage of one generation. Sacrifices are commanded and being exiled only punished those by keeping them from sacrificing. Now israel has repossession of those lands and a temple has not been rebuilt nor have sacrifices reinitiated. The commandment is to observe the feast days with animal sacrifices. There are no substitutes.

We were told by the Prophets we would be without sacrifice. We were told what to do when that happens. There are, in fact, "substitutes" for that. I recommend reading the prophets instead of inventing problems for Judaism.

Perhaps; but you also avoid the Christ card.

You also avoid the "not-messiah" card.

 

[smaneck]

That interpretation is worth an objective look. The jewish world expected the appearance of the messiah specifically in those years that Christ appeared.

Not because it jived with some timeline. The expected a messiah because they felt themselves once again in a kind of captivity.

The gospels record Pharisees believing John the Baptist was a prophet... proof enough for me.

So never mind what the Jews say they believe. Where does it record this, btw?