What is the Next Prophetic Event?

[Princessdi]

Also, to the OP....isn't this a bit like trying to predict Christ'a return. We might not have a date, but we have our prophetic, end time events lined up...and then he will come................The Bible says no man knows that day nor the hour. god didn't say anything about giving us a code to crack to figure it out.........right?

 

[MidnightCry]

Also, to the OP....isn't this a bit like trying to predict Christ'a return. We might not have a date, but we have our prophetic, end time events lined up...and then he will come................The Bible says no man knows that day nor the hour. god didn't say anything about giving us a code to crack to figure it out.........right?

Thank you for your reply, Princessdi.

Not sure what you are referring to by SOP. Can you explain what you are referring to? This thread was started to help figure out if the trumpets are in the past, as the SDA church teaches, or if they are yet future. What is the next prophetic event that will take place affecting God's people and also the unsaved?

I believe the trumpets are yet future and they are the next prophetic event that will take place. I have read the interpretation the SDA church stands by. I believe they are wrong.

The book of Daniel states the great tribulation will last 1,335 days. (Daniel 12:12) What occurs during this time is important for us to know. If Jesus didn't want us to know, why did He put this information in the Bible? He wants us to be prepared spiritually for what is going to take place. He tells us it will be a terrible time, like never before and will never happen again. He doesn't want us to panic or even worse give up hope or lose our faith.

No one knows when the great tribulation will begin. I'm not saying that I'm trying to figure out a date. No one knows when it will begin. But it will be a surprise for everyone, unless you know what Revelation says.

Do you believe that Satan will appear on earth during this terrible time pretending to be Christ? If you do, do you believe Jesus would tell us about such an important event? Would He show John what was going to happen at the end of time and tell him to write it down in a book so people can read it and know what is coming? Would Jesus want His followers to know that Satan is coming and not be deceived?

 

[MidnightCry]

The point is that Satan will appear on earth to deceive even the elect if it were possible. This is an important event. One that Jesus would have certainly shown to John on the Isle of Patmos. Jesus would want us to know this fact ahead of time so we could protect ourselves from deception.

So, where in the interpretation of Revelation by the pioneers of the SDA church is this event depicted? I am just trying to figure this out. Can someone show this to me?

Thank you.

 

[Princessdi]

Sorry Midnightcry, not SOP, but OP. I meant in direct response to the "Opening/Oringal Post".

Mine is just a general question to SDAs and all those with end time prophecy doctrine. The follow all follow very precise timelines, by predicting that a series of events will happen in a certain order, then Christ will come. My question is just isn't that a bit like the predicting Mr. Camping was doing, only difference is he actually attempted to give a date.

Thank you for your reply, Princessdi.

Not sure what you are referring to by SOP. Can you explain what you are referring to? This thread was started to help figure out if the trumpets are in the past, as the SDA church teaches, or if they are yet future. What is the next prophetic event that will take place affecting God's people and also the unsaved?

I believe the trumpets are yet future and they are the next prophetic event that will take place. I have read the interpretation the SDA church stands by. I believe they are wrong.

The book of Daniel states the great tribulation will last 1,335 days. (Daniel 12:12) What occurs during this time is important for us to know. If Jesus didn't want us to know, why did He put this information in the Bible? He wants us to be prepared spiritually for what is going to take place. He tells us it will be a terrible time, like never before and will never happen again. He doesn't want us to panic or even worse give up hope or lose our faith.

No one knows when the great tribulation will begin. I'm not saying that I'm trying to figure out a date. No one knows when it will begin. But it will be a surprise for everyone, unless you know what Revelation says.

Do you believe that Satan will appear on earth during this terrible time pretending to be Christ? If you do, do you believe Jesus would tell us about such an important event? Would He show John what was going to happen at the end of time and tell him to write it down in a book so people can read it and know what is coming? Would Jesus want His followers to know that Satan is coming and not be deceived?

 

[MidnightCry]

Princessdi,

I am not sure how determining the next prophetic event is the same as date setting.

Jesus, through John, gave us a written description of what will take place during the great tribulation. Obviously, He wants us to know this so we can be prepared. If we didn't need to know what was coming, why even bother to record these events?

I believe the Bible is supposed to interpret itself. I don't believe someone can come along and just make up what each symbol should mean. Anyone could make up any symbol to fit their interpretation. How confusing is that?

It makes sense to me that the fourth seal is the next one to be opened. The devastation described in this seal has not yet occurred at any time in earth's history. The fourth seal indicates that 25% of the earth will be destroyed by sword, famine, plague and wild beasts.

The fourth seal is opened, the censer in Rev. 8:2 is thrown down and the trumpets will begin. If you read the Bible just as it is written, it makes sense.The first trumpet talks about hail and fire mixed with blood. A third of the earth, a third of the trees, and all the green grass is burned up. If fire hits the earth, doesn't it make sense that trees and grass will burn up?

The second trumpet talks about a huge mountain hitting the sea. The seat turns to blood and sea creatures die. Have you ever heard of red algae? It grows rapidly and thrives in anoxic water. Again, this makes sense just as it is written.

The third trumpet talks about a great star falling on a third of the rivers and springs. This could be a second asteroid which could poison water.

The fourth trumpet talks about darkness. I could easily see how famine could occur without enough daily sunlight to grow vegetation.

These trumpets are consistent with the laws of physics, how can they be symbolic? If they are symbolic, where are these symbols defined? Should anyone be free to interpret symbols according to their imagination? There must be relevant Bible texts to define the symbol, otherwise, the Bible cannot speak for itself.

The fifth trumpet talks about a star that had fallen from the sky, the star was given a key to the shaft of the Abyss. Who is this star that fell from heaven?This is Satan, who is now held in the spirit world, who will be permitted to appear on earth at the proper time. Read Rev 20:1-3 It makes sense.

Shouldn't the Bible make sense when you pick it up and read it? I know sometimes it takes a lot of studying, over a period of time, but it should at some point make sense just the way it reads. And if something is symbolic, shouldn't God be the one to define that symbol?

Just because we know what is coming next, we can't determine how long a time period is between each trumpet, or how long the seven last plagues will last, so how can this be date setting?

 

[MidnightCry]

This thread is dying a slow death, so I will leave one last comment.

SDAs have ruined the intended meaning of Revelation's story by forcing the seven trumpets into the past. By using the correct timing for the seven trumpets, a Bible student can understand how, when, and why false worship becomes an issue that engulfs the whole world. This is crucial to understanding Revelation's story because the seven trumpets will change life as we know it and trigger a worldwide controversy over worship.

Because the Great Tribulation will be the worst time in Earth's history, we need to know and understand God's Word. His Word will be a lamp unto our feet and a light on our path as we proceed through 1,335 days of severe tribulation.

God's truth is marching on. We cannot afford to depend on church leaders or the final crisis to awaken us. I urge you to research this topic for yourself. Do not blindly accept a church doctrine, belief or tradition.

"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition." --Sir Isaac Newton (1643-1727)

 

[DennisTate]

A man from Uganda has predicted that when Christians support the Jewish people in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third TEmple there will be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit/Ruach ha Kodesh unlike has been seen in 2000 years!

This idea makes a great deal of sense to me!

Eporu Ronald Alfred

Kakira Deliverance Church,
P.O. Box 3191, Kakira, Jinja, Uganda

......

Dear brethren,
I salute you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

RE: SHARING NEW DISCOVERIES OF THE TRUTH IN BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE IMMINENT HEALING AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

I am mesmerized by the truth in bible prophecy that the Spirit of God has been revealing over the recent years. Secret things belong to God and those that are revealed belong to us and our children... (Deut 29: 29).

1. King Cyrus the great ruled his country 555 years Before Christ i.e. from 576 BC to 530 BC and authorised the rebuilding of the second temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus of the Old Testament is hence associated with the number 555 and is the shadow figure of incoming Cyrus II of the New Testament. You may learn more about his history from the internet and scriptures. This new truth enables us to identify the leadership of the world that will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as prophesied in book of Isaiah before the rise of antichrist. Cyrus II is coming to revive the evangelical/Pentecostal church in Jerusalem and restore the headquarters of the church in same city where the church was born. He is set to strip Babylon of the vessels of the temple and the name of the Lord God and transfer that crown back to Jerusalem thus leaving Babylon naked. Cyrus will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem in fulfilment of the prophecy of Jesus as written in the book of John 2:18-23 and the prophecy of Isaiah as written in chapters 40, 41, 45 and 47 of the book of Isaiah. Jesus regarded the temple as the symbol of his own body while saying that he had the power to lay it down on the first day (1st millennium) and rebuild or raise it up on the 3rd day (3rd millennium). Remember that one day in the eyes of God is the same as one thousand years (millennium) as stated in book of 2 Peter 3:8. Rebuilding of the temple is thus associated with unification of the church.

Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23.

Cyrus II will erase that false image of Jesus that the counterfeit and Idolatrous state church of Babylon has been projecting around the world and revive the original church that projects the true brilliant image of Jesus Christ. Haggai 2:9 says that the glory of the latter church (temple) will be greater than the glory of the former church (temple).The rise of Cyrus will also usher in the ultimate fulfilment of the prophecy of Joel 2:28 where God intends to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days. The era of Cyrus brings the gentile period of grace to its close and leads to the restoration of the Jewish period of grace and salvation.




2. King Manasseh was the shadow figure (forerunner) of the antichrist in the Old Testament who ruled over Jerusalem exactly 666 years Before Christ i.e. from 697 BC to 642 BC. (2 chronicle 33: 1-2 and 2 kings 21: 1-17). Antichrist is associated with the number 666 as written in the book of Revelation 13:18. Manasseh was the most evil king to have ever ruled over the city of Jerusalem and kingdom of Judah.

Manasseh is reported to have killed so many innocent people in Jerusalem that the streets of Jerusalem were flowing with blood; he worshiped pagan idols and stars; he built pagan alters for idols and stars in the very courtyards of the temple; he sacrificed his sons to idols; he consulted diviners and mediums; he even set up an abominable pagan image at the temple that causes desolation just as the incoming antichrist will do. It was on that basis that God decided to have that first temple destroyed completely since Manasseh had desecrated it.



3. Prophet Jonah was the shadow figure (forerunner) of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament who undertook his prophetic ministry around 777 B.C. Prophet Jonah is hence associated with the number 777. He arose from the shadow and demise of Prophet Elisha. His preaching radiated such great power and authority that turned the city of Nineveh as the rising super power of that time up side down within 3 days only (read the book of Jonah). Jonah was the prophetic force behind the restoration of the lost territories of Israel in the reign of King Jeroboam II of Israel between 782 BC and 741 BC as written in II Kings 14:25. Jonah related with God more or less as his own father and God loved him more or less as His own son. He volunteered to die save occupants of the ship and was raised to life after three days just like Jesus Christ. Jesus compared himself with Jonah as his forerunner in the Old Testament as far as his earthly ministry, death and resurrection was concerned in Mathew 12; 38-41, Luke 11; 29-32. Jesus will also oversee the restoration of the lost territories of Israel just like prophet Jonah when he comes to rule as the king of kings and Lord of Lords. We can therefore correctly associate Jesus Christ with the number 777 just like Jonah as our commander-in-chief, Lord of the Sabbath and fountain of life.

The more we know where we came from the more we know where we are going. You are cordially invited to visit my face book home page for more information and messages. Feel free to share this truth with other brethren just as I received it free of charge from God.

Your brother in Christ

Eporu Ronald
Scientist & Minister of Bible Prophecy

 

[DennisTate]

The metaphorical meaning of REvelation is by far the most important of all...in a sense my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit....the old Dennis Tate is like an anti-Messiah...man of sin that exalts himself above the place that Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua should have in my life.....the process that takes me to that place where I can pray...thy will be done, not mine Lord...is an astonishingly heavy and difficult process and we are powerless against that old man of sin inside us without the outpouring of the Holy Spirit into our lives!

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Hey Dennis, this isn't the place to peddle your metaphysical spritualistic bunk... I let your first post, about the supposed vision of chained spirits trapped in this dimension, slide but you obviously have nothing of value to contribute here.

 

[DennisTate]

Hey Dennis, this isn't the place to peddle your metaphysical spritualistic bunk... I let your first post, about the supposed vision of chained spirits trapped in this dimension, slide but you obviously have nothing of value to contribute here.

So then I take it that you do not suspect that String Theory with either 26 or at least 11 dimensions of space-time may help us to understand God and the angels within a few decades?

Jeremiah 23:20

The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

 

[MidnightCry]

Hey Dennis, this isn't the place to peddle your metaphysical spritualistic bunk... I let your first post, about the supposed vision of chained spirits trapped in this dimension, slide but you obviously have nothing of value to contribute here.

Amen, ECR.

 

[DennisTate]

Amen, ECR.

So then I take it that on this forum you do not want to know why I went from rather firm belief in soul sleep to a belief that the NDE accounts are probably valid?

Yes, I do admit that this was not such an easy process!

 

[MidnightCry]

So then I take it that on this forum you do not want to know why I went from rather firm belief in soul sleep to a belief that the NDE accounts are probably valid?

Yes, I do admit that this was not such an easy process!

Only if you can show me from scripture that NDE events are biblical. Otherwise, I would not be interested.

 

[DennisTate]

I suspect that you also know Larry Hamilton and I know that he would probably like to get into these questions...but maybe you would not want to here?

True, I am a Sabbath keeper but not exactly SDA! I used to agree with the soul sleep idea but not any more!

Congregational Forum Restrictions, Christian Only Forums, and Off-Topic posts
Do not teach or debate in any Congregational Forum unless you are truly a member and share its core beliefs and teachings. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

 

[DennisTate]

For me this began back in 1990. I read an article in Psychology Today on NDE accounts and I was reminded of II Corinthians 12:2-4.

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

[DennisTate]

Ellen White also reported extensive out of the body experiences. I read one of her old books loaned to me by Mrs. Langille that offended me at the time because Mrs. White told about visiting the patriarch Enoch where he was sitting all alone on his own planet...this bothered me because I could not understand why a servant of God would want to be alone...but now that I look back i suspect that perhaps Enoch was discussing matters with God that were of a nature that maybe even were not to be revealed to any body else....so now I would no longer be so offended by what Mrs. White wrote there!

 

[Kam Fanaian]

OK. Of course, there is scripture in the book of Revelation that tells us that Lucifer will physically appear on earth and attempt to deceive everyone, even the elect, if that were possible.

The problem is that the SDA Church is asleep. Like the rest of the world (and the ten virgins), the SDA Church will be caught by surprise. It's time to stop blindly following church leaders, traditions, and failed prophecy!

SDAs have ruined the intended meaning of Revelation's story by forcing the seven trumpets into the past. The SDA Church teaches the seven trumpets happened centuries ago, and conclude the seven trumpets of Revelation are personally insignificant. The first four trumpets are about to sound and almost everyone is asleep to their importance.

The Millerites put the seven seals, seven trumpets, Two Witnesses and even the seven last plagues into past centuries for a simple reason. The Millerites believed the world would end in 1844; therefore, they reasoned, everything in Bible prophecy must be fulfilled prior to 1844. To make the book of Revelation meet their prophetic needs, they researched history and invented "historical fulfillments." Think about this: The Millerites were forced by their end-of-the-world conclusion to put the bulk of Revelation's story in the past.

The correct timing of the seven trumpets is crucial to understanding Revelation's story because the seven trumpets will change life as we know it and trigger a worldwide controversy over worship.

Look at the cost of getting this wrong: The rejection of Messiah at the first Advent and the bitter Millerite disappointment of 1844 prove that this mistake can be spiritually fatal.

Has anyone ever considered that the Millerites may actually have been RIGHT?



What happened in 1844 that may have been globally significant? It was also a time when the German Templars created colonies on Mount Carmel in Israel. Has there ever been such Messianic expectation in history other than 1844?

 

[MidnightCry]

Has anyone ever considered that the Millerites may actually have been RIGHT?



What happened in 1844 that may have been globally significant? It was also a time when the German Templars created colonies on Mount Carmel in Israel. Has there ever been such Messianic expectation in history other than 1844?

I have never heard of this. How is this globally significant? How did this event or how does this event have any affect on God's people?

The Millerites believed the world would end in 1844. Seems to me it didn't. How were the Millerites RIGHT, as you say?

The Millerites believed the world would end in 1844; therefore, they reasoned, everything in Bible prophecy must be fulfilled prior to 1844. To make the book of Revelation meet their prophetic needs, they researched history and invented "historical fulfillments."

Why not let the Bible speak for itself? I am sure that Miller, Litch, and Ellen White did their best to understand God's Word. Dr. Litch discovered and publicly corrected his mistake. I am sure that William Miller and Ellen White would do the same if they were alive today. Previous generations could not know all that we know today because man's understanding of God's truth is progressive.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[Kam Fanaian]

Hi Midnightcry

I think you are right in that we need to allow the Bible to speak for itself. However, when it comes to the End Times, there are so many interpretations, it can be confusing when seeking the truth.

I think it is important to recognize, that God has made His Creation in a manner by which He will always test the faith of His servants, which will enable cleansing, purification and true salvation. I sense that the message conveyed in the book of Revelation, was not as black and white as it may seem since how else would God test His faithful ones.

Even when Jesus was manifesting Himself to the Pharisees, they did not recognize Him, because Jesus tested the spiritual resolve of those who He encountered. Some with spiritual insight recognized the signs as being Messianic and recognized Him, however, others were completely blind to the truth, insisted on their own interpretations and missed Jesus altogether. Even today, the entire Jewish world is still awaiting the coming of the Messiah, how much have they missed!! They missed the opportunity to drink from the salvation-giving waters of Jesus.

I think it may be best to ask you what are the signs that must needs pass to convince you that the End Times are upon us?

What evidence do you require from your understanding of the Bible, that will convinve you that Jesus' Second Coming is near?

I think if you can answer this question, it may be a firm grounding by which we can explore the possibilities together
Thanks

 

[MidnightCry]

Hi Midnightcry


I think it may be best to ask you what are the signs that must needs pass to convince you that the End Times are upon us?

What evidence do you require from your understanding of the Bible, that will convinve you that Jesus' Second Coming is near?

I think if you can answer this question, it may be a firm grounding by which we can explore the possibilities together
Thanks

Greetings Kam Fanaian,

Thank you for your response. I will try to answer your questions as best as I can.

King Nebuchadnezzar was given a vision and interpretation by Daniel containing a broad outline of the future. The vision lays out a sequence of coming events. Jesus revealed to Nebuchadnezzar that subsequent kingdoms would rise and fall until the time came for the God of Heaven to set up His kingdom on earth. (Daniel 2)

Nebuchadnezzar's dream may be seen as a very broad explanation of the destiny of mankind beginning with his day. Comparing prophecy with history, we discover the following progression of five world empires: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and the time of many kings. We have yet to see the brief reign of the 10 last kings and the establishment of the kingdom of God.History and prophecy harmoniously combine so that we might understand the plans of God.

Also, the Bible speaks of a specific time period that exists at the end of the world. It is called "the Great Day of the Lord," and in most cases, this term refers to a time period when the authority and glory of Almighty God shall be revealed. In the book of Daniel, this time period is called "the appointed time of the end." I believe these verses refer to the 1,335 days mentioned in Daniel 12:12.

As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. "Son of man," he said to me, "understand that the vision concerns the time of the end." (Daniel 8:17)

He said: "I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end." (Daniel 9:19)

Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time. (Daniel 11:35)

The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. (Daniel 11:36)

He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end."


These verses clearly say that God has appointed when the end shall be. This is good news. Even better God tells us what is coming before it happens so His saints will be prepared.

If you study prophecy and put all the pieces together, we can be sure that heaven is in its final phase of the redemption of man. I believe we are well into the appointed time of the end. I believe it is almost over. Soon, the final awful moments of the great tribulation will begin. God will use this coming time period to test the faith of every person. Then, those who really trust in God will be revealed.

I am out of time.

YSIC,
MidnightCry