The ice age and the flood

[dad]

By Brian Thomas thru Tobewan.
Kuhn cited the work of another medical doctor, Geoffrey Simmons, who described 17 "all or nothing" human body systems.4 These combine with many others to form the entire human body-a system of systems-that is irreducible at many levels, from gross anatomy to biochemistry. For example, just as a woman would die without her heart, she would also die without the vital blood biochemical hemoglobin.

But even an intact heart and hemoglobin need regulation. A heart that beats too fast or too slow can be just as lethal as having no heart, and a body that produces too much or too little hemoglobin can be equally unhealthy. Thus, the systems that regulate heartbeats and hemoglobin must also have been present from the beginning.

Kuhn wrote that "virtually every aspect of human physiology has regulatory elements, feedback loops, and developmental components that require thousands of interacting genes leading to specified protein expression." Thus, "the human body represents an irreducibly complex system on a cellular and an organ/system basis."1

Evolution has no proven explanations for the origin of just one irreducibly complex system, let alone the interdependent web of irreducible systems that comprise the human body.

Could the human body have evolved? According to Kuhn, to change another creature into a human "would require far more than could be expected from random mutation and natural selection."1 However, a wonderfully constructed human body is exactly what an all-wise Creator would make, and He promised that those who trust in Him will one day inherit new bodies "that fadeth not away."5

I agree that man was created.

 

[AV1611VET]

Dad you are so far gone you don't even know what day it is.

Ain't religions wonderful?

It's Saturday, isn't it?

Ain't time zones wonderful?

 

[Keachian]

Gah three whckjobs supporting each other and the only one vaguely on my side is consol

There's no point in me continuing to feed any of your delusions that any of you have a good grasp on what reality is

 

[cupid dave]

dad
And what bible case against the flood and creation do you have o funny one?

I can give you a biblical case for why they aren't literal, though I have already you've dismissed them because they don't fit in with your preconceived theology.

One Bible support for the flood meaning that people amassed together in great numbers, in this case of Noah, they rsained down for 40,000 years as Modern man spread out of africa.

We see this kind of metaphor used many times in scripture:


Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.


Jer 46:7 Who [is] this [that] cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers? Egypt riseth up like a flood, and [his] waters are moved like the rivers; and he saith, I will go up, [and] will cover the earth; I will destroy the city and the inhabitants thereof.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people ofthe prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant..

 

[cupid dave]

Gah three whckjobs supporting each other and the only one vaguely on my side is consol

There's no point in me continuing to feed any of your delusions that any of you have a good grasp on what reality is

Well I not only agree with your conviction about Reality, but I offer the Logic that, since scripture says Christ is Truth, then His father MUST be the ever unfolding Reality.

Reality is reflected as Truth in man's mind because Truth is the image of Reality, what really exists.






LOGICAL SYLLOGISM:


A) Jesus is Truth, (personified).
B) Truth must correspond congruently to Reality.
C) Reality is congruent to Truth as Jesus is congruent to God.
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]

 

[dad]

dad
And what bible case against the flood and creation do you have o funny one?

None, I accept them just as spoken about by God.

One Bible support for the flood meaning that people amassed together in great numbers, in this case of Noah, they rsained down for 40,000 years as Modern man spread out of africa.

So the 8 folks in the ark, was a great amassing? What it really means 8 million?? Come on now get a grip.

We see this kind of metaphor used many times in scripture:


Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Yes, of course the waves of the sea roaring can refer to things like the Arab Spring or etc. A flood can be used to refer to a great army etc. In no way can that be used to take away from the specific facts of the flood and how all men on earth were killed. Forget Africa pal.
Especially forget about your imaginary old ages, oh knight of the ridiculous case.

 

[dad]

Dad you are so far gone you don't even know what day it is.

Ain't religions wonderful?

Speculation. Even normal people can use a watch or calendar.

 

[cupid dave]

OK, so there ya go. The bible is important, and wuite connected to and supported by Christ, and not to be taken lightly. When Jesus confirmed the flood and creation, that is absolute.

Right.

The issue here concerns whether the flood was a massmmovement of people Out of Africa or water.

But it is clear that Jesus was saying all people in 32AD would disappear as new creatures or kinds of people would replace them.

Right?

He said just like with Noah, one group of people would be marrying and eating and such, totally unaware of their pending doom and replacement by the Christians.

This was like a flood in 380AD, when Theo I outlawed paganism and certified Christianity as the ONLY legal religion in the whole Roman world.

Like a flood, the pagan buildings and temples were torn down or innudated by massive congregations of Christians who were turning such places into Churches.

 

[Huram Abi]

Nice try, but no.

 

[cupid dave]

1) None, I accept them just as spoken about by God.



2) So the 8 folks in the ark, was a great amassing? What it really means 8 million?? Come on now get a grip.


3) Yes, of course the waves of the sea roaring can refer to things like the Arab Spring or etc. A flood can be used to refer to a great army etc. In no way can that be used to take away from the specific facts of the flood and how all men on earth were killed. Forget Africa pal.
Especially forget about your imaginary old ages, oh knight of the ridiculous case.

1) So do I take the words as they are written.
We read that at the time of Noah, God was going to make all men extinct, except our kind, the ancestors of Ham, Japhet, and Shem.

That did happen as we now know.
And the three racoal stocks were evidenced as our roots, too, starting 40 thousand years ago.

So what I see is that God meant that by now, modern Homo sapiens would have flooded to the mountain tops.

2) Well the bible gave us a supporting verse of two to figure out that these supposed individuals were actual the small initial seed of of species that would rain down on the earth for 40,000 years as the waters of Modern man increase over all the earth.

3) Certainly.
Metaphor is one of the tools of the literary arts by which a writer hopes to communicate an idea.
In this case, the idea was preposturous before our Age, that a mass extinction of those species from which we evolved was coming.


The writers had to give us hints so we could piece the meaning of the Noah story together in this age, but they could not be more direct than by using metphors and similes.

The readers previous to our age would never have believe the Truth directly expressed.

 

[cupid dave]

Nice try, but no.

As usual, you miss the point.

It does not matter if you insist that a flood of water is what scripture means.

What matters is that other readers, science and academic people, can understand the Flood as a population explosion that actually did occur Out of Africa, accompanieg by the extinction of Neanderthal, as mentioned in Gen 6:4.

That allows those people to accept and acknoledge the Bible as authentic and correct.

Your type of person is either an atheist trying to teach these other people that Genesis is wrong and a joke, as BillMaher does,... or...


... you are the type of Christian that authoritatively demands everyone accept what your particular church insists this Noah story means.

 

[Keachian]

you are the type of Christian that authoritatively demands everyone accept what your particular church insists this Noah story means.

That's funny considering that you're on your own with that interpretation of scripture

 

[cupid dave]

That's funny considering that you're on your own with that interpretation of scripture

What's funny?

I don't insist anyone accept the factually supported TE interpretation.
In fact that was what I said in the post to which you replied.

I said the Theistic Evoultion Bible Interpretation allows academic and science trained people to accept the Bible as factually correct, while the other doctrines insist they accept nonsense.
The TE interpretation aims to embrace and bring into the church, while the others oppose and lock out people.

I do answer the Bible bashers who back as they love to prey on the other interpretations of the denomintional churches.

What is funny is how Bill Maher makes christian interpretations seekm asinine, but the Theistic evolution interpretation can not be laughed at as unsupported by fact.

 

[Huram Abi]

I said the Theistic Evoultion Bible Interpretation allows academic and science trained people to accept the Bible as factually correct.

And you were wrong. End of story.

 

[Jazer]

I do answer the Bible bashers who back as they love to prey on the other interpretations of the denomintional churches.

Clearly they are more comfortable to argue against a strawman of their own creation.

 

[Huram Abi]

1) What matters is that other readers, science and academic people, can understand the Flood as a population explosion that actually did occur Out of Africa, accompanieg by the extinction of Neanderthal, as mentioned in Gen 6:4.

2) Your type of person is either an atheist trying to teach these other people that Genesis is wrong and a joke, as BillMaher does,... or...


... you are the type of Christian that authoritatively demands everyone accept what your particular church insists this Noah story means.

1) The story of Noah isn't aligned with the out of Africa events. Even when you strip the ark story down to bare bones and leave out the significance of the rainbow, the event of Noah sending out a raven and the a dove, the fact that the bible says specifically that only 8 souls survived the flood and other relevant details.

How you get that "it RAINED for 40 days and nights" to "a bunch of people left Africa 40,000 and that means they flooded out of Africa" is ridiculous.

The academic people who understand the out of Africa events have no need for Noah's story to be falsely and quite crudely superimposed on those events in order to accept the bible. Especially since they share no semblance. Time to grow up.

2) False dichotomy. I don't really care how one chooses to interpret the Noah narration. It is important that you don't turn actual science into science fiction and misrepresenting the work of others as you are so fond of doing, however.

 

[dad]

1) The story of Noah isn't aligned with the out of Africa events.

False. It is perfectly aligned. Stop tossing out weird stuff.

Even when you strip the ark story down to bare bones and leave out the significance of the rainbow, the event of Noah sending out a raven and the a dove, the fact that the bible says specifically that only 8 souls survived the flood and other relevant details.

How you get that "it RAINED for 40 days and nights" to "a bunch of people left Africa 40,000 and that means they flooded out of Africa" is ridiculous.

True. That is absurd.

The academic people who understand the out of Africa events have no need for Noah's story to be falsely and quite crudely superimposed on those events in order to accept the bible. Especially since they share no semblance. Time to grow up.

They do not understand, they just thought they did. They did not know of the continental separation after the flood. That changes things as do other gaps in their modeling endeavors. The bible was right all along.

2) False dichotomy. I don't really care how one chooses to interpret the Noah narration. It is important that you don't turn actual science into science fiction and misrepresenting the work of others as you are so fond of doing, however.

Science talking about the past is fiction. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[dad]

Right.

The issue here concerns whether the flood was a massmmovement of people Out of Africa or water.

Neither. The water was not from Africa, but above. Get over this Africa hang up.

But it is clear that Jesus was saying all people in 32AD would disappear as new creatures or kinds of people would replace them.

No, that is anything but clear. That is thick as a brick.

He said just like with Noah, one group of people would be marrying and eating and such, totally unaware of their pending doom and replacement by the Christians.

No, cut the body snatcher stuff. The mere fact that people ate and had wives does not make the laws the same.

This was like a flood in 380AD, when Theo I outlawed paganism and certified Christianity as the ONLY legal religion in the whole Roman world.

No. Hung up on the pope now too, I see. That just doesn't fit the flood bill.

Like a flood, the pagan buildings and temples were torn down or innudated by massive congregations of Christians who were turning such places into Churches.

So you came to pound a pet doctrine rather than learn and have honest debate OK.

 

[Keachian]

False. It is perfectly aligned. Stop tossing out weird stuff.

You do realise that the out of africa events happened at a different time to the K-T boundary event right? You can't really have both.

 

[dad]

As usual, you miss the point.

It does not matter if you insist that a flood of water is what scripture means.

What matters is that other readers, science and academic people, can understand the Flood as a population explosion that actually did occur Out of Africa, accompanieg by the extinction of Neanderthal, as mentioned in Gen 6:4.

That allows those people to accept and acknoledge the Bible as authentic and correct.

Your type of person is either an atheist trying to teach these other people that Genesis is wrong and a joke, as BillMaher does,... or...


... you are the type of Christian that authoritatively demands everyone accept what your particular church insists this Noah story means.

By the way, you in a cult?