Besides it being illegal...

[fuji]

What are the main reasons a lot of Christians are against marijuana? And do you feel it is ethically wrong as a Christian to support it's legalization?

Before you answer, let me give you some facts...

Many studies have proven that Marijuana has a way weaker withdrawal and far less addictive properties when compared to many "legal" drugs like caffeine and alcohol. So before someone says, "it is addictive and you shouldnt do it", please make sure you have told all the coffee drinkers in the world that they are harming themselves with addiction first, thank you.

Addictive Properties of Popular Drugs | Drug War Facts

Next, I have found zero and I mean "ZERO" cases of anyone dying from a marijuana O.D or from lung cancer caused from smoking marijuana exclusively. On top of that I have found no cases of anyone suffering permanent long-term brain damage from marijuana use.

What I have found is that it is a very effective medicine for treating muscle pain, cerebral palsy, insomnia, appetite in cancer victims, ADHD/ADD, epilepsy and the list goes on.

So, if marijuana was not illegal, do you think most Christians would accept it the same way most accept daily coffee drinkers?

My sense is that it will never be legal because of the bad social stigma attached to it from the media and government, though the facts about this "drug" are far less dangerous than most legal drugs we have today.

 

[mpok1519]

My sense is that it will never be legal because of the bad social stigma attached to it from the media and government, though the facts about this "drug" are far less dangerous than most legal drugs we have today.

And those stigmas are dying with the people who hold them. We can see legalization in Canada within the next five to ten years. In the USA, within our life-time.

 

[fuji]

And those stigmas are dying with the people who hold them. We can see legalization in Canada within the next five to ten years. In the USA, within our life-time.

Really? I hope so...though the people 5-10 years ago said the same thing about today. But you are right about the "stimatized people" dying off...

 

[athenken]

Even if it does become legalized in the US, most likely people will still get in trouble for smoking pot while driving as it can impair your judgement and ability to drive a vehicle. Smoking pot while driving will never be the same as smoking normal cigarettes/cigars/pipes while driving.

But getting to your point about Christians caring about the use of it. I think it will come down to the same feelings people have about alcohol. It should be used in moderation, in my opinion. I myself have never tried, nor plan to. However, there will be plenty of people that, even if it does become legal, will be completely opposed to its use.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

I'm against the use of marjuana, but not strongly. It's just a sort of general distain for non-perscription drugs.

There are a few mistakes in your arguments, such as saying cannabis has never contributed to a death. Almost everything has caused a death at some point, directly or indirectly - people have died from sneezing too hard.

• Scotland had 51 deaths contributed to cannabis in 2009 (link).
• England and Wales had 22 cannabis-related deaths in 2009 (link -requires PDF).
• In 2004 a 36-year-old man became the first documented case of death by cannabis poisoning in the UK (link).

Arguing that it has medical benefits doesn't help much either. All it does it show that people who have medical conditions may find it useful - it doesn't say why it should be legalized for people who don't have these conditions.

There have been documented causes of mental illness problems caused by cannabis - but I suspect that, ironically, this may be because it is illegal. Because there are no regulations or guidelines, growers use stronger and stronger strains, and the plant's effects are now much stronger than they were a few decades ago.

 

[Paradoxum]

I see little to no reason to keep in illegal. Christians can take the same position they do with alcohol: Moderation.

No liking something or even thinking it is immoral are no grounds for illegalisation.

It's about liberty.

 

[fuji]

I'm against the use of marjuana, but not strongly. It's just a sort of general distain for non-perscription drugs.

There are a few mistakes in your arguments, such as saying cannabis has never contributed to a death. Almost everything has caused a death at some point, directly or indirectly - people have died from sneezing too hard.

• Scotland had 51 deaths contributed to cannabis in 2009 (link).
• England and Wales had 22 cannabis-related deaths in 2009 (link -requires PDF).
• In 2004 a 36-year-old man became the first documented case of death by cannabis poisoning in the UK (link).

Arguing that it has medical benefits doesn't help much either. All it does it show that people who have medical conditions may find it useful - it doesn't say why it should be legalized for people who don't have these conditions.

There have been documented causes of mental illness problems caused by cannabis - but I suspect that, ironically, this may be because it is illegal. Because there are no regulations or guidelines, growers use stronger and stronger strains, and the plant's effects are now much stronger than they were a few decades ago.

Thanks for the reply.

To comment on the links you posted...

The first link was a 91 page PDF file about drug misuse and though I have some time, not enough to go through the whole thing, could you tell me where it says that 51 deaths were related to cannabis? Also are those directly related? Because if someone is high and say, they got into a car accident, it doesnt make cannabis evil, just the person using it. Like how knifes arn't evil, just the idiot who stabbed you.

The second link wasnt very helpful either, on what page does it say 22 people died from cannabis? And is it directly related to health problems?

And lastly the third link about 1 person smoking 6 joints a day for 11 years straight is pretty amazing considering it is the only death I have ever heard of directly related to cannabis. But that also says something much much bigger, more people have died flying American Airlines then using cannabis.

 

[knitcap]

distain?

I'm against the use of marjuana, but not strongly. It's just a sort of general distain for non-perscription drugs.


There are a few mistakes in your arguments, such as saying cannabis has never contributed to a death. Almost everything has caused a death at some point, directly or indirectly - people have died from sneezing too hard.

• Scotland had 51 deaths contributed to cannabis in 2009 (link).
• England and Wales had 22 cannabis-related deaths in 2009 (link -requires PDF).
• In 2004 a 36-year-old man became the first documented case of death by cannabis poisoning in the UK (link).

Arguing that it has medical benefits doesn't help much either. All it does it show that people who have medical conditions may find it useful - it doesn't say why it should be legalized for people who don't have these conditions.

There have been documented causes of mental illness problems caused by cannabis - but I suspect that, ironically, this may be because it is illegal. Because there are no regulations or guidelines, growers use stronger and stronger strains, and the plant's effects are now much stronger than they were a few decades ago.

 

[knitcap]

Explain.

I'm against the use of marjuana, but not strongly. It's just a sort of general distain for non-perscription drugs.


There are a few mistakes in your arguments, such as saying cannabis has never contributed to a death. Almost everything has caused a death at some point, directly or indirectly - people have died from sneezing too hard.

• Scotland had 51 deaths contributed to cannabis in 2009 (link).
• England and Wales had 22 cannabis-related deaths in 2009 (link -requires PDF).
• In 2004 a 36-year-old man became the first documented case of death by cannabis poisoning in the UK (link).

Arguing that it has medical benefits doesn't help much either. All it does it show that people who have medical conditions may find it useful - it doesn't say why it should be legalized for people who don't have these conditions.

There have been documented causes of mental illness problems caused by cannabis - but I suspect that, ironically, this may be because it is illegal. Because there are no regulations or guidelines, growers use stronger and stronger strains, and the plant's effects are now much stronger than they were a few decades ago.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Fuji: The first link from Scottish database has a table of toxicology results on page 43.

The second link (entitled "Deaths related to drug poisoning" - which means they were examining deaths which were directly caused by the drugs themselves) from the database from England and Wales has a table where particular drugs were mentioned on the death certificate on page 10.

The third link about the 36-year-old was from 2004 - the other links were from 2009 and 2010. He was probably the first confirmed case of cannabis poisoning, but it seems like he wasn't the last. This is probably because the strains they use nowadays are much stronger than the strains used in previous decades.


But that was just a minor point. I was simply saying that the idea that cannabis has never caused a single death was incorrect. Almost anything you can think of has caused a death at some point. Escalators and elevators kill about 30 people a year in the USA.

 

[Jade Margery]

The first link was a 91 page PDF file about drug misuse and though I have some time, not enough to go through the whole thing, could you tell me where it says that 51 deaths were related to cannabis? Also are those directly related? Because if someone is high and say, they got into a car accident, it doesnt make cannabis evil, just the person using it. Like how knifes arn't evil, just the idiot who stabbed you.

It wouldn't make cannabis evil, but I think that getting in an accident while high on a drug could be fairly called out as caused by that drug, just like we include drunk driving accidents in statistics for alcohol related deaths. Alcohol isn't illegal and neither should pot be, but driving while impaired by anything--whether it's booze, pot, or prescription medication--is and should be illegal.

On the other hand, I've hung out with drunk people and I've hung out with high people, and if I had to choose a driver out of either group I'd go with the pot smokers. It makes you silly and gives you bad judgement, but at least you're not going to pass out. Also I think the pot smokers would have been more likely to drive too slow instead of too fast. That's assuming they left the house at all. Apparently it makes you pretty content to be wherever you are, though that's just my observation. I haven't tried it myself yet.

Point is, so long as alcohol is legal, there is no logical reason not to allow pot to be legal too.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I've never met a meth addict who didn't try marijuana first.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

I've never met a meth addict who didn't try marijuana first.

I should point out that I am far from pro-drug, and "don't take any drugs", though I drink coca-cola, so that means that I consume some incidental caffeine, but more or less ....

However, there is an argument that I have heard about criminalising soft drugs that makes some sense to me.

That is, if a soft drug is illegal, then users will have to obtain that drug by underground means. They will have to get in contact with drug suppliers to obtain their drug of choice. Some drug suppliers will only deal in marijuana, but others will supply a variety of "products", some far harder than marijuana. There will be profit motives, both due to price and addiction producing regular custom, for drug pushers (I think we've got to there) to upsell their clients from marijuana to harder drugs. I've heard of pushers supplying marijuana dusted with other drugs, so that even clients who don't choose the harder option end up addicted. But criminalising marijuana puts users in contact with the underground, which then makes it easier and more likely that they progress to harder drugs. If marijuana is available at Boots the Chemist, then users don't get put in contact with the underground, making the step from marijuana to harder drugs more difficult.

In my opinion, though I haven't done the hard research legwork to justify this, I believe that alcohol is a worse drug than marijuana, particularly if the marijuana is consumed other than being smoked. However, alcohol can be obtained by means other than "the underground", i.e. in the UK going to your local supermarket or "off-license". Even underage drinkers have methods of obtaining their liquor other than drug pushers, e.g. getting adults to buy it for them, shoplifting, or raiding their parents supply. I even saw a blog once where an underage drinker was making their own! (The random places I end up on around the web.....) So, alcohol doesn't put people in charge with underground drug pushers, and hence is less of a gateway drug.

This is just one factor and I don't claim it means that the overall weight of the argument is pro-legalisation.

As for the original question as to why some Christians are anti-marijuana, well, there's Corinthians 6:19-20? (Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn here).

 

[Autumnleaf]

Their pal who shared weed with them in high school probably won't be selling them crank further on in their drug user career. Drugs make addicts feel good and addicts like to feel good. If MJ makes them feel good then how better will X or meth make them feel, and where oh where can they find some to try!

Or something like that.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Their pal who shared weed with them in high school probably won't be selling them crank further on in their drug user career. Drugs make addicts feel good and addicts like to feel good. If MJ makes them feel good then how better will X or meth make them feel, and where oh where can they find some to try!

Or something like that.

But that argument will also apply to alcohol. Does alcohol act as a gateway drug to harder drugs?

Their pal who shared weed with them in high school won't sell them harder drugs. But, if marijuana smokers become regular users, then they'll probably end up sourcing marijuana from more than just their pal in high school.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Marijuana affects one's capacity for reasoning when under the influence. One hit of shwag will make you stupid for hours. This is from experience.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

But that argument will also apply to alcohol. Does alcohol act as a gateway drug to harder drugs?

Sometimes. There are studies suggesting teens who used cannabis and alcohol are much more likely to start using harder drugs in their earlier twenties: (Cannabis linked to use of amphetamines

That said, there have also been studies showing that drinkers and cannabis users were no more likely to abuse harder drugs than others: Predictors of Marijuana Use in Adolescents Before and After Licit Drug Use

So does that prove the "slippery slope" argument? Well, yes and no. Most people who drink and use soft drugs won't become alcoholics or addicts - but those who are alcoholics and drug addicts all started out using the soft stuff.
-------------------------------------------------------

One a side-note, a third interesting study compared cannabis users from San Francisco to users in Amsterdam, and found that the Americans were much more likely to move onto harder drugs later in life than those from the Netherlands: The Limited Relevance of Drug Policy: Cannabis in Amsterdam and in San Francisco

Apparently the Dutch as so sick of people coming to their country just to get stoned they've made it illegal to sell cannabis to tourists.

 

[Jade Margery]

I've never met a meth addict who didn't try marijuana first.

I have. Gal I went to high school with. She told me straight up that she skipped the 'gateway' stuff and went straight to crystal.

ANECDOTAL SMACK DOWN!


Also, I'm fairly sure you've never met a meth addict who didn't drink alcohol first either. Or eat bread. Or get a vaccine as a baby. Ooooooo!

LOGIC SMACK DOWN!



Jade: 2 Autumn: 0

 

[Paradoxum]

Their pal who shared weed with them in high school probably won't be selling them crank further on in their drug user career. Drugs make addicts feel good and addicts like to feel good. If MJ makes them feel good then how better will X or meth make them feel, and where oh where can they find some to try!

Or something like that.

Isn't that why MJ should be sold from legal shops rather than, in some sense, promoting people to involve themselves in criminal activity? A boundary should be put between safe and unsafe drugs rather than saying all mind altering substances are wrong (but then what about alcohol and caffeine?). As long as the law is irrational I find no need to follow it except out of fear of the law rather than respect. I want to respect the law.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Marijuana affects one's capacity for reasoning when under the influence. One hit of shwag will make you stupid for hours. This is from experience.

From my experiance if one hit of shwag makes you stupid for hours then maybe you were already stupid.