Gods Big Bang

[mzungu]

I know it might seem ridiculant. But SO many things don't fit Especially the ape became men issue I know best I'm a fan on that topic I used to defend the evolution from Darmin to the bones but I'm flipped.

I seriously doubt if you have any idea of what Evolution is!
As for your: "But SO many things don't fit Especially the ape became men issue.." This leads me to believe that you are purposely baiting for a response in order to infuriate or have an excuse to press a button; Or are so clueless that you are judging something you know nothing about!

"Judge not lest you be judged in return" "Thou shalt not bear false witness".

Humans ARE apes! We belong to the African Apes.

 

[Evie12]

I just diasagree and I do know what I'm talking about.

 

[razeontherock]

Allow me to disagree. With the birth of the universe so too was spacetime born. There is no room in science for a deity.

Since you just pointed out the greatest place in the Universe for "a diety," I have to say that's a very closed mind.

 

[razeontherock]

Until they investigate something you don't like. Then suddenly your undergarments seem to bunch up.

'Sallright, we just need a scientist to invent a left-handed undergarment stretcher.

 

[razeontherock]

After all the Amish are halfway there.

All the Amish are on a plane, on their way to a South Pacific Island? Hey everybody, free buggy rides!

 

[mzungu]

All the Amish are on a plane, on their way to a South Pacific Island? Hey everybody, free buggy rides!

That is not what I meant when I said that. I meant that the Amish are half way there from reaching the point where science and technology plays no role in their life!

OH THE HYPOCRISY!!!!!

You people enjoy the fruits of science while at the same time you totally dismiss it! If this is not hypocrisy then nothing is!

 

[British Bulldog]

Since you just pointed out the greatest place in the Universe for "a diety," I have to say that's a very closed mind.

Where is this "greatest place" for a deity? I didn't follow.

 

[mzungu]

Where is this "greatest place" for a deity? I didn't follow.

Must be the moon, otherwise why would Elvis choose to live there

 

[Michael]

Good. So you understand that the mechanism is as innate as your senses.

Sure. Recognizing and using real things that can potentially increase the odds of survival seems to be what evolution is all about.

Your assumption that the universe itself is intelligent is exactly what we are talking about. You are placing a human mind in the picture.

Not a human mind. I'm simply noting that the universe itself is composed of plasma that is organized into trillions upon countless trillions of electrical circuits, much like my physical form. Such sophisticated circuitry on Earth only arises in living organisms and intelligently designed devices. Whatever "mind" might support that flow of current, its unlikely to be anything like a 'human' mind.

If your beliefs turn out to be true then you were justified in believing them? That's putting the cart before the horse.

What do you think astronomers do with SUSY particles? They write about them day in, day out, week after week, month after month, year after year. Nobody has ever seen one. Care to explain how they didn't put the metaphysical cart before the empirical horse?

What is more important is that you can see the connection. It's taken several pages but we have made progress.

I didn't hear you reciprocate and admit that if we live inside of a living organism, much of what you consider to be "human mythology' turns out to have a real empirical foundation after all. Care to admit that point so that we can move on "cleanly"?

 

[British Bulldog]

I didn't hear you reciprocate and admit that if we live inside of a living organism, much of what you consider to be "human mythology' turns out to have a real empirical foundation after all. Care to admit that point so that we can move on "cleanly"?

No. I have seen no evidence that the universe is in any way alive or intelligent. Secondly it wasn't mentioned in the video.

 

[Michael]

No.

Ok, let's work on it then....

I have seen no evidence that the universe is in any way alive or intelligent.

Did you happen to peruse any of those 30 or so links I provided in the empirical of God threads? Alfven (the guy that wrote plasma physics theory) describes the whole of spacetime in terms of "circuits". Where else *BESIDES* living organisms and intelligently designed devices might I hope to find such a large concentration of 'circuits' here on Earth?

Secondly it wasn't mentioned in the video.

So? You really are attempting to ignore my question, but I won't let you sweep the question under the table. *IF* we live inside of a living organisms, doesn't that sort of take all of the wind out of your sails as it relates to human beliefs about God making the sun rise, etc?

 

[Michael]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7584137-13/#post58395643

FYI BB, here is a link to the list of references I cited in the other thread in case you're curious.

 

[British Bulldog]

Ok, let's work on it then....

Did you happen to peruse any of those 30 or so links I provided in the empirical of God threads? Alfven (the guy that wrote plasma physics theory) describes the whole of spacetime in terms of "circuits". Where else *BESIDES* living organisms and intelligently designed devices might I hope to find such a large concentration of 'circuits' here on Earth?

So? You really are attempting to ignore my question, but I won't let you sweep the question under the table. *IF* we live inside of a living organisms, doesn't that sort of take all of the wind out of your sails as it relates to human beliefs about God making the sun rise, etc?

I was only ever discussing the video with you. Your claim that the universe is an intelligent organism only relates to what I was talking about in so far as it shows your desire to anthropomorphise the universe. Beyond that I don't see that it has anything to do with my sails.

 

[Michael]

I was only ever discussing the video with you. Your claim that the universe is an intelligent organism only relates to what I was talking about in so far as it shows your desire to anthropomorphise the universe. Beyond that I don't see that it has anything to do with my sails.

Other than noting that the physical universe we live in is composed of countless "circuits", just like the ones inside of all living forms, how exactly am I 'anthropomorphizing" any particular quality related to "humaness" upon the universe? All living things have circuits and chemical transfers, and I'm simply noting that the universe also experiences such events.

IMO you are simply trying to ignore or underplay the significance of the fact that the universe we live in is every bit as sophisticated in it's circuitry as our human forms, in fact WAY more sophisticated, complex and interwoven circuitry exists in spacetime than exist inside of living forms on Earth. Something is sustaining all those "circuits" and those circuits always serve some "purpose" when found here on Earth. Why then would I automatically ASSUME that they serve no "intelligent purpose", when the only thing they exist in "naturally" on Earth are "living organisms"?

 

[British Bulldog]

Other than noting that the physical universe we live in is composed of countless "circuits", just like the ones inside of all living forms, how exactly am I 'anthropomorphizing" any particular quality related to "humaness" upon the universe? All living things have circuits and chemical transfers, and I'm simply noting that the universe also experiences such events.

IMO you are simply trying to ignore or underplay the significance of the fact that the universe we live in is every bit as sophisticated in it's circuitry as our human forms, in fact WAY more sophisticated, complex and interwoven circuitry exists in spacetime than exist inside of living forms on Earth. Something is sustaining all those "circuits" and those circuits always serve some "purpose" when found here on Earth. Why then would I automatically ASSUME that they serve no "intelligent purpose", when the only thing they exist in "naturally" on Earth are "living organisms"?

Saying thay serve an intelligent purpose presupposes a God of some sort to give them purpose. Do we have evidence of this purpose? Do we have evidence of this God? The minute you make an assumption about intelligence being involved you are invoking a human like mind.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Yup you are right BB I would say it's an argument from design but the design argument is not established as strong. In fact it could well be untestable and therefore have 0% strength to it as far as we can tell.

 

[Michael]

Saying thay serve an intelligent purpose presupposes a God of some sort to give them purpose. Do we have evidence of this purpose? Do we have evidence of this God? The minute you make an assumption about intelligence being involved you are invoking a human like mind.

Actually the presence of sophisticated circuitry isn't limited to human life in the first place, and the "purpose" aspect is directly related to the fact that such sophisticated, stable circuitry here on Earth is found EXCLUSIVELY in living organisms. What other "purpose" might those circuits serve that ISN'T related to a living process? Got an example in mind?

 

[Michael]

FYI, in the original thread I pointed out that some of the circuitry and some of the EM processes are cyclical as we find in living things (like a heartbeat or solar cycle) and some of the activities are more 'transitory' like we find in neutrons and in solar flares and such.

 

[Michael]

Yup you are right BB I would say it's an argument from design but the design argument is not established as strong. In fact it could well be untestable and therefore have 0% strength to it as far as we can tell.

Define "untestable" and describe how I can 'test' the idea that dark energy causes things to accelerate. Finding some "God" in pantheism is as simple as picking up some dirt in your backyard, or looking at yourself in the mirror. Can you tell me where I can go to even get my hands on some dark energy to be sure it's not just "made up"?

 

[British Bulldog]

Actually the presence of sophisticated circuitry isn't limited to human life in the first place, and the "purpose" aspect is directly related to the fact that such sophisticated, stable circuitry here on Earth is found EXCLUSIVELY in living organisms. What other "purpose" might those circuits serve that ISN'T related to a living process? Got an example in mind?

I don't make the assumption that there is a purpose in the first place. In my opinion to truly understand evolution is to grasp that beyond continuing the existence of genes in a population from one generation to the next evolution doesn't serve any purpose. Its own continuation is its only purpose, although purpose is the wrong word, function of the process might be a better phrase. It is a process that requires no outside intelligent guidance. We are one of this processes results, but to ascribe evolution with a bigger purpose is to misunderstand the process. Our existence is no more important than that of an amoeba or a dinosaur. Our species will exist for a few hundred thousand years and then will either evolve into something slightly different or go extinct, and the rest of life on earth either will or won't continue without us, depending on what we do to the planet. I hope we continue for as long as possible and evolve into a cleverer more tolerant species, but that is a wish I impose on the future, the process of evolution itself is indifferent to any human wish or assumed purpose. And so too, as far as I can tell, is the universe.