Universe is not homogeneous as far as we know

[SithDoughnut]

I have a question. Seeing as this different state idea is based upon trying to make reality fit a literal Biblical interpretation, how do you know that the Bible has always been the same?

 

[dad]

I have a question. Seeing as this different state idea is based upon trying to make reality fit a literal Biblical interpretation, how do you know that the Bible has always been the same?

The spiritual experience of man spans all religions and all time. So the spiritual is a well known quantity.

Science is physical only, and waves off everything it can't grab or stick in a tube. It works with the forces and laws that are in place right here and only here as far as we know.

One can know that they are flailing around worse than a one eyed Jack in a dark room.

They have spouted nonsense for a long time now, that contradicts the bible, and pretended they did it from knowledge and authority. Everything they claim depends on the unknown future or far past being the same.

It is not me that needs to prove anything here. They either know or NOT. They don't.


Once we agree on that, and if not you will need to prove the same state past, all that remains is to look for the best explanation.

The records of the bible cover the old world, and cover things about the nature of stars even. You may chose to NOT know as is the case or look at what evidences man does have.

 

[dad]

I don't need to.

Things stay the same unless something changes them,

Death changes us. Science can't see how, save the physical bit. Whose rule is it that things stay the same..? Yours. Whoopee do. Overruled. By the way if God changed nature, then it was, well, changed. If you think only something that recent physical only philosophy can see counts as a change, then you will have to stick to where it sees.

We have absolutely no reason to believe that the past was any different,

We have absolutely no reason to believe that the past was the same. All history and experience of man screams out that there is more.

You can't make it all go away, by holding your breath till you turn blue.

 

[dad]

You are the one making the claim, dad. Ever hear of a little thing called "burden of proof"? it's sitting squarely on your shoulders, not mine.

My claim is proven. Evidenced. Demonstrated right here. Science depends on and assumes that the present is the key to the past. No proof exists for that notion. You fail to provide any. You are a demo.

the science monster has eaten you up and spat you out. You just don't realise it because you're looking at your own script.

Have a rest. Your imagination is over excited.

I have plenty. The fact you refuse to look at it does not mean it doesn't exist.

We will all look at it. Post it.

I have done it many times. Like I said before, you cover your eyes so you can pretend it doesn't exist, much like a scared child afraid of the dark.

Lie. No present nature in the far past was supported here. Mentioning decay as if it existed in the past means squat without evidence.

Then you are completely ignorant of how science works and you are not qualified in any way whatsoever to call it into question.

Tell us then, since you seem to feel you are the brightest light on the block...

 

[dad]

How is it that you know these claims are wrong?

Unless they are known to be correct, science is sidelined. What anyone else knows or suspects is after the fact.

In my opinion, since they belief based models of so called science have rendered the universe creatorless, meaningless, dark, and physical only as our earth state is at the moment, they are irrelevant.

Any accurate model will include the spiritual, and not be based on fishbowl thinking and concepts.

 

[sandwiches]

Unless they are known to be correct, science is sidelined. What anyone else knows or suspects is after the fact.

In my opinion, since they belief based models of so called science have rendered the universe creatorless, meaningless, dark, and physical only as our earth state is at the moment, they are irrelevant.

Any accurate model will include the spiritual, and not be based on fishbowl thinking and concepts.

So, how is it that you know that those claims are wrong?

 

[Nathan Poe]

I doubt that earth laws and forces and light and space exist across the universe. Anyone have proof they do?

Your doubts are meaningless blather -- every time you open your mouth, proof slushes out.

Any reason you chose to misrepresent the facts in your thread title -- on second thought, don't bother.

 

[dad]

Your doubts are meaningless blather -- every time you open your mouth, proof slushes out.

Your doubts are meaningless blather -- every time you open your mouth, poof slushes out.

Any reason you chose to misrepresent the facts in your thread title -- on second thought, don't bother.

Any reason you make erroneous claims...never mind. It's what you do.

 

[dad]

So, how is it that you know that those claims are wrong?

How does science know they are right? They don't. So, we measure tham against records of that unknown past state...and the DSP rules.

 

[sandwiches]

How does science know they are right? They don't. So, we measure tham against records of that unknown past state...and the DSP rules.

So, how is it that you know that those claims are wrong?

 

[SithDoughnut]

The records of the bible cover the old world, and cover things about the nature of stars even. You may chose to NOT know as is the case or look at what evidences man does have.

You didn't answer my question. How do you know that the Bible has always been the same? How do you know that God has always been the same? How do you know that the spiritual world has always been the same?

You're working on the same assumptions that you attack science for.

 

[dad]

You didn't answer my question. How do you know that the Bible has always been the same?

It hasn't. It was given over time.

How do you know that God has always been the same?

He told us, and has done enough to be believed. Did you die for me??

How do you know that the spiritual world has always been the same?

Hey, how often could it change? But seriously, if 1/3 of the angels fell, how 'same' would it be? You think God isn't cool and doesn't like changes? Hey, the universe will change.

You're working on the same assumptions that you attack science for.

Show me how I work on a same state past foundation???? You seem to be slipping.

 

[dad]

So, how is it that you know that those claims are wrong?

Show us what claim, and what supports it? Then we can check your work Till then, cork er.

 

[Tiberius]

My claim is proven. Evidenced. Demonstrated right here. Science depends on and assumes that the present is the key to the past. No proof exists for that notion. You fail to provide any. You are a demo.

Ah yes! Your wonderful, magical evidence, which you have never produced! You've done nothing more than say things loudly and spout vague claims that say nothing.

Your evidence is laughable.

We will all look at it. Post it.

I have many times. You didn't look at it then, and I have no reason to think you'll look at it now.

Lie. No present nature in the far past was supported here. Mentioning decay as if it existed in the past means squat without evidence.

The evidence is that we can see the effects that such decay caused. And what we see could only have occured if it decayed in the past the same way it decays today.

Reality defeats you.

Tell us then, since you seem to feel you are the brightest light on the block...

Once again, I've tried explaining it to you many times. You refuse to look at it. If you really are that desperate to know, go and read my posts from earlier in this thread.

 

[dad]

Ah yes! Your wonderful, magical evidence, which you have never produced! You've done nothing more than say things loudly and spout vague claims that say nothing.

Magical? Is that what you call all things that are not under your present state nose?

I have many times. You didn't look at it then, and I have no reason to think you'll look at it now.

Lie. There is and was no same state past proof presented. Not here. Not anywhere. Ever..

The evidence is that we can see the effects that such decay caused.

False. What we see we do not know what caused.

And what we see could only have occured if it decayed in the past the same way it decays today.

Example???? Name something you see!!!!???

 

[SithDoughnut]

Show me how I work on a same state past foundation???? You seem to be slipping.

You assume that the Bible has always said the same thing (since its completion). If you assume that the past can be different, this applies to everything, from the laws of physics to words on a page. I would like you demonstrate that the words of Bible have not changed and become corrupted or wrong. Otherwise, you are working on an unfounded assumption, like you claim science is.

 

[dad]

You assume that the Bible has always said the same thing (since its completion).

When was that?? 1611? Tell us what do you think magically changed since then??

If you assume that the past can be different, this applies to everything, from the laws of physics to words on a page.

No. It applies to laws on earth since 4400 years ago. Real time.

 

[SithDoughnut]

When was that?? 1611? Tell us what do you think magically changed since then??

The Bible has been around since long before 1611, you should know that. I'm guessing that your attempt to dodge the question means that you can't prove that the Bible hasn't been corrupted or changed?

No. It applies to laws on earth since 4400 years ago. Real time.

No, it applies to everything. If some things can magically change, then all things can potentially magically change. You don't get to pick and choose.

 

[dad]

The Bible has been around since long before 1611, you should know that. I'm guessing that your attempt to dodge the question means that you can't prove that the Bible hasn't been corrupted or changed?

If you are building up to a point through some side door, get to it. You claim God allowed His word to be 'corrupted'? When and where?

No, it applies to everything. If some things can magically change, then all things can potentially magically change. You don't get to pick and choose.

What you call magic is another man's science. If God changes creation as He will do, according to His Own word, then it gets changed, call it anything you want. Present physical laws and science will have and did have diddly squat to do with it!

 

[sandwiches]

If you are building up to a point through some side door, get to it. You claim God allowed His word to be 'corrupted'? When and where?

It's your job you to prove that it's always been the same. Just like, according to you, it's our job to prove that the laws of the universe have always been the same.