Our roommate is infatuated with catholicism

[Hammster]

I'm looking at why, specifically, there are Roman Catholic's posting here in this forum, specifically this thread ............. for anything other than apologetics.......... and why it has been allowed to continue.

Kinda reminds me of this sign I saw on the net

Too many ruses going on under the cloak of fellowship around here.... and IMHO......... some assume way too much

Personally, I have no problem with it. They have been fairly respectful.

 

[student ad x]

Personally, I have no problem with it. They have been fairly respectful.

As troll threads seem normative ......... carry on then

 

[Basil the Great]

Hammster - I guess I am not sure what you are seeking. The RCC canonizes saints. They only do this why they are convinced that a person is in Heaven. However, it would seem that the Church expects that many of those who were never canonized as saints move from Purgatory to Heaven at some point after their death, but the Church leaves that matter up to God, as to which non-sainted persons go to Hell and which ones go to Purgatory and how long they stay in Purgatory. I do not know if this answers your question and remember, I am not a Catholic, though I do know Catholic theology quite well.

 

[Basil the Great]

I'm looking at why, specifically, there are Roman Catholic's posting here in this forum, specifically this thread ............. for anything other than apologetics.......... and why it has been allowed to continue.

Kinda reminds me of this sign I saw on the net

Too many ruses going on under the cloak of fellowship around here.... and IMHO......... some assume way too much

Perhaps we all would profit if members of different congreagtional forums posted more often in forums other than their own? I have always believed that an exchange of ideas is a good thing, as long as we stay away from heated debates.

 

[Baqueinfaith]

By "getting through" do you mean changing minds? I'm still waiting to find out how one avoids purgatory.

I'll be honest and say yes, changing minds. I'm not looking for a bunch of new Catholics but just..."Ah, I think you're wrong but I see you're basically Christian".

Or at least some progress in the discussion where we can see exactly and to what extent we differ and the standards by which we judge each other to be wrong.

Also

Spare some change???

 

[Fencerguy]

I'm looking at why, specifically, there are Roman Catholic's posting here in this forum, specifically this thread ............. for anything other than apologetics.......... and why it has been allowed to continue.

Would you rather that some Christians be allowed to speak ill and demean others and not be required to back up their statements? The idea that individuals can post whatever they want to within their own congregational domains and never be required to validate their statements is quite disingenuous.....if you found catholics posting things that were clearly uneducated and false about baptists, would you not want to be able to ask them to defend their statements?

 

[Baqueinfaith]

Then the answer is basically no. Sorry, but it's either grace through faith, or it isn't. And since you believe you can lose it, that negates grace.

I am starting to see where you're coming from. So it's not really an anti-Catholic thing with you, you're against the teachings of any denominations that is not once saved, always saved?

 

[Fencerguy]

Matthew 25:31-46 (sheep and goats). Two groups of people. Two judgements. No purgatory. There is so much in Scripture that only gives two options. To add a third because of one passage that is highly debatable is not wise. Can you think of any other major doctrine that is based off of one short passage?

This is the final judgement......it has nothing to do with the specific judgement that we each face after we die.....purgatory is not a "third option" besides heaven or hell......people in purgatory are guaranteed heaven, they are just being finally purified....to say that purgatory is some sort of alternate destination besides heaven or hell is ridiculous.....further demonstrating a lack of education....

By "getting through" do you mean changing minds? I'm still waiting to find out how one avoids purgatory.

you avoid purgatory by living a life in which the temporal punishments, or consequences, for your sin are exacted before you die. Someone who lives a holy life and endures the consequences of their actions will be able to enter heaven without any further purification..

This post seems a bit jumbled. What are you wanting to know, and why?

What he wants to know, Hamm, is where in the Bible do you find that accepting Christ is not a work? Where in the Bible do you see that man has no participation in salvation whatsoever?

 

[Fencerguy]

Nobody knows if the bible came from the Catholic Church or the Baptist Church. And I for one will say as a Baptist I don't know. Don't really care, because the Bible came from God, not man.

First canons of Scripture came from the Catholic church....becaus that's all there was until the 1500s......any Protestant-specific Bible translation is only as new as the 1500s

 

[Basil the Great]

I am starting to see where you're coming from. So it's not really an anti-Catholic thing with you, you're against the teachings of any denominations that is not once saved, always saved?

Anglicans, Methodists and Lutherans do not believe in "once saved, "always saved". Some other Protestant groups may also, but I would have to do research to be certain which ones and how many.

 

[Baqueinfaith]

Anglicans, Methodists and Lutherans do not believe in "once saved, "always saved". Some other Protestant groups may also, but I would have to do research to be certain which ones and how many.

I was talking to Hammster. I think we misread him as one of these rabidly anti-Catholic for no reason types, whereas he's actually not. He's just, very very committed to OSAS Calvinism (which he considers inseparable from Calvinism), and considers anything else a false gospel.

 

[Fencerguy]

I was talking to Hammster. I think we misread him as one of these rabidly anti-Catholic for no reason types, whereas he's actually not. He's just, very very committed to OSAS Calvinism (which he considers inseparable from Calvinism), and considers anything else a false gospel.

Yeah, i'll give you that....although I certainly hope that the apparent lack of education displayed by some of these once-saved-always-saved types is quite disillusioning....

 

[Hammster]

I'll be honest and say yes, changing minds. I'm not looking for a bunch of new Catholics but just..."Ah, I think you're wrong but I see you're basically Christian".

Whether or not you are saved isn't up to me to decide. But if you are, it's despite your Church's teachings and not because of it.

Or at least some progress in the discussion where we can see exactly and to what extent we differ and the standards by which we judge each other to be wrong.

and as I've pointed out repeatedly, the differences make the difference.

Also

Spare some change???

I'm a trucker with a wife and three kids. Spare change? I wish.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Yeah, i'll give you that....although I certainly hope that the apparent lack of education displayed by some of these once-saved-always-saved types is quite disillusioning....

Yup, I'm just an idiot. You win the argument. God and his angels must be praising you for pointing out my lack of education.

 

[Hammster]

This is the final judgement......it has nothing to do with the specific judgement that we each face after we die.....purgatory is not a "third option" besides heaven or hell......people in purgatory are guaranteed heaven, they are just being finally purified....to say that purgatory is some sort of alternate destination besides heaven or hell is ridiculous.....further demonstrating a lack of education....

The point was (and still is) that Jesus mentioned many times both heaven and hell. But never even alluded purgatory. Yet you have taken a few verses and twisted them into purgatory, demonstrating you lack of understanding of Scripture and you belief that Christ didn't accomplish enough on the Cross.

you avoid purgatory by living a life in which the temporal punishments, or consequences, for your sin are exacted before you die. Someone who lives a holy life and endures the consequences of their actions will be able to enter heaven without any further purification..

So Christ wasn't punished for all of your sins?

What he wants to know, Hamm, is where in the Bible do you find that accepting Christ is not a work? Where in the Bible do you see that man has no participation in salvation whatsoever?

When did I ever say man has no participation?

 

[Hammster]

First canons of Scripture came from the Catholic church....becaus that's all there was until the 1500s......any Protestant-specific Bible translation is only as new as the 1500s

I think the Eastern Orthodox would disagree.

 

[Hammster]

I am starting to see where you're coming from. So it's not really an anti-Catholic thing with you, you're against the teachings of any denominations that is not once saved, always saved?

I said before that I am not a once saved, always saved guy, at least not in the sense that it is often abused in churches. I do believe, however, that if God saves you He does so to the uttermost. There is a distinction with a difference.

 

[Hammster]

Yeah, i'll give you that....although I certainly hope that the apparent lack of education displayed by some of these once-saved-always-saved types is quite disillusioning....

I guess since you think I'm a once saved always saved guy shows your lack of education towards Reformed Theology. Maybe you should study that some.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I think the Eastern Orthodox would disagree.

Don't forget Wycliffe and his translation of the 1300's. Even if you say he was a Roman Catholic he was not a very good one.

The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe (on 4 May 1415) a stiff-necked heretic and under the ban of the Church. It was decreed that his books be burned and his remains be exhumed. The exhumation was carried out in 1428 when, at the command of Pope Martin V, his remains were dug up, burned, and the ashes cast into the River Swift, which flows through Lutterworth.

Source

 

[Basil the Great]

I think the Eastern Orthodox would disagree.

Most definitely the EO would disagree. They believe that they are the one Church founded by Christ.