• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Protestant canon

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dylan Michael

Senior Veteran
Jul 15, 2010
3,678
203
Central Florida
✟33,492.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
In the Days of Christ there were several Cannons. The old testament used by Catholics and Orthodox was the Cannon used by the Greek Speaking Jews.
When it was apparent that Christianity was a Major thing, some Jews got together to formalize a cannon, they chose the Hebrew Tanakh to be the universal bible used by all Jews.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dorothea
Upvote 0

Montalban

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2004
35,424
1,509
58
Sydney, NSW
✟42,787.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
In the Days of Christ there were several Cannons. The old testament used by Catholics and Orthodox was the Cannon used by the Greek Speaking Jews.
When it was apparent that Christianity was a Major thing, some Jews got together to formalize a cannon, they chose the Hebrew Tanakh to be the universal bible used by all Jews.

Yes, but I want to know about the PROTESTANT canon, because they don't accept some books from the OT that RCC and EO accept
 
Upvote 0

Dylan Michael

Senior Veteran
Jul 15, 2010
3,678
203
Central Florida
✟33,492.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Yes, but I want to know about the PROTESTANT canon, because they don't accept some books from the OT that RCC and EO accept

Martin Luther decided it was a good idea to use the Tanakh as the OT, so he put the rest of the books in a section in the back.
 
Upvote 0
Feb 3, 2011
550
23
✟23,272.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
When was the Protestant canon form/formalised? And, by whom?

My understanding is that most of the more conservative protestants use the versions based on the Textus Receptus, (Erasmus), or majority text. There were around 4000 of them that had been copied up to the fourth century, that were used. The earliest English Bible (complete english translation that is) was Wycliffe (1382), previous ones were partial english translations of certain books, but not complete. It was (Wycliffes) banned and burned. Forty years after his death, his body was exhumed and his bones burned for heresy. Luther(though a german translation), Tyndale, King James, and Geneva Bible translations, early ones also. Lot of folks got burned for making the Bible available for the 'common folk'.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

gratefulgrace

Contributor
Jul 26, 2006
13,109
3,210
British Columbia
✟47,492.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I only know the basics I believe our present cannon was established at the council of nicea. I heard that the first assembled group of New Testament writings was actually written down by an fellow later deemed a heretic. Marcion was his name and he left out a lot of stuff.

http://www.gci.org/history/athanasius
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,532
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,330.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by Montalban Bait-switching not allowed
If only it was ;)
LLOJ always whiffs it first :)
aFu_FishingBait.gif
 
Upvote 0

StThomasMore

Christian Democrat
Feb 27, 2011
1,584
95
✟24,751.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The council of Jamnia


I have been reading that one of the reasons the Jews took out the Greek books of the OT that were in the Septuagint was because the Christians used mostly the Septuagint, and it was also quoted by Jesus, and hence they did not want to associate with it and took out the Greek books later. Rather than for religions reasons they did it more out of anger for the Christians and not wanting to be associated with them. Hence they felt the best way to do this was to remove the Greek books.
 
Upvote 0

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2007
31,102
5,923
✟1,033,887.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Luther kept the Roman Apocrypha, but in a separate section between the OT and the NT.

We misplaced the Apocrypha when we gave up German for English; the only readily available translation was the Protestant KJV. Our Publishing House, Concordia, published various editions of the Apocrypha in a separate volume over the years.

When they published the "Lutheran Study Bible" in the ESV their intent was to include the Apocrypha exactly where Luther (and various Catholics) had put it; however with the notes and the reference material included for the O and NT, the Study Bible was already very cumbersome. Next year, they are yet again publishing the Apocrypha in a separate volume, with extensive reference and study notes. The ESV (without notes) is available with the Apocrypha through Oxford Press I think.

I use the NAB Catholic edition right now for my reference.
 
Upvote 0

StThomasMore

Christian Democrat
Feb 27, 2011
1,584
95
✟24,751.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
  • Like
Reactions: gratefulgrace
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,532
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,330.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Marcion only accepted Paul's writings and rejected the OT.
Interesting. Did he also reject the Gospels, Acts, the non-Pauline epistles and Revelation :confused:
 
Upvote 0

CryptoLutheran

Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman
Sep 13, 2010
3,015
391
Pacific Northwest
✟27,709.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I only know the basics I believe our present cannon was established at the council of nicea. I heard that the first assembled group of New Testament writings was actually written down by an fellow later deemed a heretic. Marcion was his name and he left out a lot of stuff.

Athanasius Lists the New Testament Writings | Grace Communion International

Nicea didn't have anything to do with the biblical canon, actually. It wasn't discussed at the council at all.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

narnia59

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jul 17, 2007
5,806
1,316
✟493,928.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The earliest English Bible was Wycliffe (1382)

Not even close to the first...

Old English
Main article: Old English Bible translations
Although John Wycliff is often credited with the first translation of the Bible into English, there were, in fact, many translations of large parts of the Bible centuries before Wycliff's work. Toward the end of the 7th century, the Venerable Bede began a translation of scripture into Old English (also called Anglo-Saxon). Aldhelm (c. 639–709) translated the complete Book of Psalms and large portions of other scriptures into Old English.

In the 10th century an Old English translation of the Gospels was made in the Lindisfarne Gospels: a word-for-word gloss inserted between the lines of the Latin text by Aldred, Provost of Chester-le-Street.[1] This is the oldest extant translation of the Gospels into the English language.[1]

The Wessex Gospels (also known as the West-Saxon Gospels) are a full translation of the four gospels into a West Saxon dialect of Old English. Produced in approximately 990, they are the first translation of all four gospels into English without the Latin text.

In the 11th century, Abbot Ælfric translated much of the Old Testament into Old English. The Old English Hexateuch is an illuminated manuscript of the first six books of the Old Testament. The Old English Heptateuch is a version without lavish illustrations but including a translation of the Book of Judges.

The English Bible was first translated from the Latin Vulgate into Old English by a few select monks and scholars. Such translations were generally in the form of prose or as interlinear glosses (literal translations above the Latin words).

Very few complete translations existed during that time. Rather, most of the books of the Bible existed separately and were read as individual texts. Thus, the sense of the Bible as history that often exists today did not exist at that time. Instead, a more allegorical rendering of the Bible was more common and translations of the Bible often included the writer’s own commentary on passages in addition to the literal translation.

Main article: Middle English Bible translations
The Ormulum is in Middle English of the 12th century. Like its Old English precursor from Ælfric, an Abbot of Eynsham, it includes very little Biblical text, and focuses more on personal commentary. This style was adopted by many of the original English translators. For example the story of the Wedding at Cana is almost 800 lines long, but fewer than 40 lines are the actual translation of the text. An unusual characteristic is that the translation mimics Latin verse, and so is similar to the better known and appreciated 14th century English poem, Cursor Mundi.

Richard Rolle (1290–1349) wrote an English Psalter. Many religious works are attributed to Rolle, but it has been questioned how many are genuinely from his hand. Many of his works were concerned with personal devotion, and some were used by the Lollards.[2]

The 14th century theologian John Wycliffe is credited with translating what is now known as Wyclif's Bible, though it is not clear how much of the translation he himself did.[3] This translation came out in two different versions. The earlier text is characterised by a strong adherence to the word order of Latin, and might have been difficult for the layperson to comprehend. The later text made more concessions to the native grammar of English.

English translations of the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrPolo
Upvote 0

MrPolo

Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
Jul 29, 2007
5,871
767
Visit site
✟24,706.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Athanasius 367 AD

Protestants recognize the authority of Athanasius to determine doctrine? Why him? And do they recognize the book of Wisdom as Scripture as Athanasius did?
But of these and such like inventions of idolatrous madness, Scripture taught us beforehand long ago, when it said, "The devising of idols was the beginning of fornication, and the invention of them, the corruption of life." (quote from Wisdom 14:12) (Athanasius, Against the Heathen, #11)​
 
Upvote 0

Montalban

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2004
35,424
1,509
58
Sydney, NSW
✟42,787.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
My understanding is that most of the more conservative protestants use the versions based on the Textus Receptus, (Erasmus), or majority text. There were around 400 of them that had been copied up to the fourth century, that were used. The earliest English Bible was Wycliffe (1382). It was banned and burned. Forty years after his death, his body is exhumed and his bones burned for heresy. Luther, Tyndale, King James, and Geneva Bible translations early ones also. Lot of folks got burned for making the Bible available for the 'common folk'.

Different translations aren't different canons.
 
Upvote 0

Montalban

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2004
35,424
1,509
58
Sydney, NSW
✟42,787.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Protestants recognize the authority of Athanasius to determine doctrine? Why him? And do they recognize the book of Wisdom as Scripture as Athanasius did?
But of these and such like inventions of idolatrous madness, Scripture taught us beforehand long ago, when it said, "The devising of idols was the beginning of fornication, and the invention of them, the corruption of life." (quote from Wisdom 14:12) (Athanasius, Against the Heathen, #11)​

That's what I don't understand. Which is why I asked about earlier canons, such as Marcions. What makes this Athansius collection 'the' canon?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrPolo
Upvote 0

Montalban

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2004
35,424
1,509
58
Sydney, NSW
✟42,787.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.