Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[11822]

Works of the flesh have never been "allowed" by God during any era.

Paul's usage of the term "flesh" is not equal to the body. Paul's usage of "flesh" has to do with man's works devoid of the Spirit of God. The godly have had the help of God's Spirit in all eras, and whatever they did in faith would not qualify as a "work of the flesh".

We are not free to wallow in works of flesh? This must mean we still have law.

 

[11822]

Oh, ok. Thank you for clarifying what you meant.

Im sorry. Heres what Paul says.

Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[ghendricks63]

We are not free to wallow in works of flesh? This must mean we still have law.

Not sure about the "wallow"ing part......but I do believe this verse in Titus applies.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Titus 1:15

 

[11822]

Not sure about the "wallow"ing part......but I do believe this verse in Titus applies.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Titus 1:15

That doesn't seem to help. It could be taken two ways.


Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

 

[ghendricks63]

That doesn't seem to help. It could be taken two ways.


Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

It definitely helps me. I have reached a point where I don't consider nearly as many things "sin" as I once did. The verse 16 that you added is a great illustration to my point. Since they are "defiled" in there minds...the actions of their flesh deny their faith and they do these things believing they are in disobedience. They are literally "reprobate" even unto "good works". In other words...what is in and of itself pure, they are reprobate unto because of their lack of faith.

Romans 14:22 says;

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

 

[11822]

It definitely helps me. I have reached a point where I don't consider nearly as many things "sin" as I once did. The verse 16 that you added is a great illustration to my point. Since they are "defiled" in there minds...the actions of their flesh deny their faith and they do these things believing they are in disobedience. They are literally "reprobate" even unto "good works". In other words...what is in and of itself pure, they are reprobate unto because of their lack of faith.

Romans 14:22 says;

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

I not sure thats correct. But the last thing you said i agree with. However if one man says there is no law, another should say there is. There are two extreme viewpoints, both leading us away from the truth. One being the law makes you righteous and the law is all that matters. The other being Grace makes us righteous and there is no law at all. Both are wrong.

 

[ghendricks63]

I not sure thats correct. But the last thing you said i agree with. However if one man says there is no law, another should say there is. There are two extreme viewpoints, both leading us away from the truth. One being the law makes you righteous and the law is all that matters. The other being Grace makes us righteous and there is no law at all. Both are wrong.

Well you'll notice I said "I don't consider nearly as many things sin" rather than I don't consider anything sin. I do believe we are no longer "under" the law in the sense of condemnation, and that the present law (the law of Love) is now our guide rather than the old covenant. But you won't find me in either of the two categories you identified as being wrong either.

 

[11822]

Well you'll notice I said "I don't consider nearly as many things sin" rather than I don't consider anything sin. I do believe we are no longer "under" the law in the sense of condemnation, and that the present law (the law of Love) is now our guide rather than the old covenant. But you won't find me in either of the two categories you identified as being wrong either.

I think most of us agree on that. All of us must like to debate the word, we all agree but disagree at the same time.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Works of the flesh are not allowed under the NC. The law defines works of the flesh.

Works of the flesh have never been "allowed" by God during any era.

Paul's usage of the term "flesh" is not equal to the body. Paul's usage of "flesh" has to do with man's works devoid of the Spirit of God. The godly have had the help of God's Spirit in all eras, and whatever they did in faith would not qualify as a "work of the flesh".

We are not free to wallow in works of flesh? This must mean we still have law.

Huh? {Whew!} You are simply going to have to write in more complete sentences! I haven't got the faintest idea as to your meaning.

 

[ghendricks63]

I think most of us agree on that. All of us must like to debate the word, we all agree but disagree at the same time.

I love that. "We all agree but disagree at the same time".

The following statement should not be taken as an absolute in my thinking (I.E. in everything) but I believe there is much truth in it. I believe we are each accountable to God in large part according to our own understanding. Otherwise how else could we be blessed and not condemned based upon what WE approve?

 

[11822]

I love that. "We all agree but disagree at the same time".

The following statement should not be taken as an absolute in my thinking (I.E. in everything) but I believe there is much truth in it. I believe we are each accountable to God in large part according to our own understanding. Otherwise how else could we be blessed and not condemned based upon what WE approve?

When sin is defined as anything not of faith it referred directly to eating foods and observing days. Im not sure if we can apply that to other laws such as the 10 Cs except for the sabbath because its a day being observed. I have considered what you say myself but paul uses the 10 Cs as examples of love in romans 14 which makes it hard for me to have faith that i am free to break them at will. Grace covers our sin but we are commanded to love.

 

[11822]

We have freedom to make sinful mistakes but not freedom to sin.

 

[11822]

I would agree God judges us differently. How we judge others is how he will judge us. If we show mercy God shows mercy, if we forgive God forgives. If we don't condemn God wont condemn. Maybe God judges, forgives, and condemns us the way we do others.

 

[from scratch]

When sin is defined as anything not of faith it referred directly to eating foods and observing days. Im not sure if we can apply that to other laws such as the 10 Cs except for the sabbath because its a day being observed. I have considered what you say myself but paul uses the 10 Cs as examples of love in romans 14 which makes it hard for me to have faith that i am free to break them at will. Grace covers our sin but we are commanded to love.

I think that not accepting the full NC is a lack of faith. Failure to trust the leading of the Spirit to not lead one into sin is a lack of faith. Rote folowing of a list doesn't require any faith at all.

 

[from scratch]

We have freedom to make sinful mistakes but not freedom to sin.

Sin isn't a life style for the Christian. That by no means, means that the flesh doesn't crawl off the altar and get us into sin - Roman 12:1. That is the problem with a living sacrifice, it just refuses to die. Indeed I very much identify with Paul's confession in Romans 7.

 

[from scratch]

We are not free to wallow in works of flesh? This must mean we still have law.

What does Gal 5 say?

 

[ghendricks63]

When sin is defined as anything not of faith it referred directly to eating foods and observing days. Im not sure if we can apply that to other laws such as the 10 Cs except for the sabbath because its a day being observed. I have considered what you say myself but paul uses the 10 Cs as examples of love in romans 14 which makes it hard for me to have faith that i am free to break them at will. Grace covers our sin but we are commanded to love.

First of all when Paul uses the illustration of food or religious holidays he was talking about freedom...NOT SIN. And then he expanded it to include ALL things.

Secondly who said anything about breaking "the 10 C's" at will? Not sure where you got the impression I was suggesting any such thing. (Many believe in a more legalistic interpretation of them than others, but Christ set the record straight on that mistake) I said we are to keep the law of love and if we do there will be no violation of the 10 C's. While I may believe I have more freedom than others believe, I remind you that this is direct Paul teaching and preaching.

 

[from scratch]

That doesn't seem to help. It could be taken two ways.


Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

Gal 5:13 has a lot to do with it though.

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

 

[from scratch]

It definitely helps me. I have reached a point where I don't consider nearly as many things "sin" as I once did. The verse 16 that you added is a great illustration to my point. Since they are "defiled" in there minds...the actions of their flesh deny their faith and they do these things believing they are in disobedience. They are literally "reprobate" even unto "good works". In other words...what is in and of itself pure, they are reprobate unto because of their lack of faith.

Romans 14:22 says;

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

 

[from scratch]

I not sure thats correct. But the last thing you said i agree with. However if one man says there is no law, another should say there is. There are two extreme viewpoints, both leading us away from the truth. One being the law makes you righteous and the law is all that matters. The other being Grace makes us righteous and there is no law at all. Both are wrong.

But what does the Word of God and the Spirit say. Obviously I'm discounting men.