"Dear Lord, I am a good person and an Atheist . . ."

[Tergle]

"Dear Lord, I am a good person and an Atheist. Therefore I should have earned a spot in heaven. And besides, I can't believe in a hell for all eternity anyway."

That is what it sounds like to me when I hear an atheist argue about heaven and hell.

Is that a bad thing?

 

[yasic]

Well, my position that I make clear is as follows:

If the traditional Christian one (OT is true, hell is real) is the real one, and he offers me a spot into his heaven, then I hope I have the integrity on that day to turn him down based on the idea that I would rather rot in hell then spend a minute worshiping an evil tyrant like him.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

And besides, I can't believe in a hell for all eternity anyway

What about 'hell' in this life, even a moment of it, and eternal return* there to? Can you believe in that?

*see the concept of eternal recurrence.

 

[KCfromNC]

That is what it sounds like to me when I hear an atheist argue about heaven and hell.

Is that a bad thing?

I don't think it's immoral or unethical to lack understanding of how a hypothetical discussion works as you seem to be doing here. Just remember that your misunderstanding of the topic doesn't say anything about what non-believers are actually discussing. Attributing your misunderstanding to them as if they're actually saying it would be dishonest, which is immoral.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Is that a bad thing?

It is only a bad thing if you are preventing yourself from understanding what atheists are actually saying.

For my part, I simply think that only an evil God could create human beings knowing in advance that even one of them would be suffering in hell for all eternity. That doesn't mean that hell can't exist, since there's no a priori reason to think that an evil God can't exist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Mling]

That is what it sounds like to me when I hear an atheist argue about heaven and hell.

Is that a bad thing?

Depends how you mean "bad." I certainly wouldn't call you bad in the sense of being "evil," or even "naughty" for your misunderstanding. But...it's ignorant in a way that adults should not be ignorant, and it severely misses the point of those conversations, so, I'd say it's bad in the sense of being a really bad sign about your thinking and communication skills. It's bad in the same sense that it's bad if you start spiking a fever for no reason, or if you start hallucinating: clearly, something is wrong.

That, of course, is assuming that you are honestly trying to understand them and don't. That's very different than debating with the assumption that nothing they say will be worthwhile, so you don't need to bother listening or understanding.

If that's the case, I'd say it's bad in the "naughty" sense.

 

[selfinflikted]

That, of course, is assuming that you are honestly trying to understand them and don't. That's very different than debating with the assumption that nothing they say will be worthwhile, so you don't need to bother listening or understanding.

If that's the case, I'd say it's bad in the "naughty" sense.

If one judges from past posts, then I think you've hit the proverbial nail square on the head.

 

[Jade Margery]

It's 'bad' in the sense that you have bad comprehension skills, and are completely misinterpreting what other people are saying.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

That is what it sounds like to me when I hear an atheist argue about heaven and hell.

Is that a bad thing?

To seek understanding and wisdom is always a good thing.

 

[plindboe]

Well, my position that I make clear is as follows:

If the traditional Christian one (OT is true, hell is real) is the real one, and he offers me a spot into his heaven, then I hope I have the integrity on that day to turn him down based on the idea that I would rather rot in hell then spend a minute worshiping an evil tyrant like him.

You'd be an idiot then. I'd rather spend eternity worshipping an evil deity than being subjected to torture for an eternity. Torture trumps integrity any time, and I bet you'd realize this after a few seconds of torture.

Peter

 

[Tergle]

It is only a bad thing if you are preventing yourself from understanding what atheists are actually saying.

It is unbelievably difficult to understand atheists.

For my part, I simply think that only an evil God could create human beings knowing in advance that even one of them would be suffering in hell for all eternity.

Is it God that craetes evil people or is it evil people create evil people? Would you rather a race of dolls or puppets?

That doesn't mean that hell can't exist, since there's no a priori reason to think that an evil God can't exist.

That people seperate themselves fromGod does not make God the evil one in that situation.

Why do human beings smoke cigarettes or eat to obesity? I don't think you can blame God for choices made willingly. I would think rather, this is the God you atheists demand.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I don't think it matters if you go to heaven or hell because you'll be dead anyway so you won't notice a thing.

 

[MorkandMindy]

It is unbelievably difficult to understand atheists.

...

I'm pleased you are easy to understand

What age is a person in heaven,

if people in heaven are spiritual then how do people recognise each other

do people in heaven learn?

if not then all eternity is just a moment because there are no memories

if so then with all people becoming infinitely knowledgeable what distinguishes one person from another, does this mean there are no red necks, fundamentalists or Republicans in heaven?

It is unbelievably difficult to understand atheists.

...

 

[Tergle]

I'm pleased you are easy to understand

What age is a person in heaven,

In a timeless realm?

if people in heaven are spiritual then how do people recognise each other

Who says they are just spiritual? They are like Angels.

do people in heaven learn?

Perfectly.

if not then all eternity is just a moment because there are no memories

And you know this on what authority? Jesus makes it clear that there are memories.

if so then with all people becoming infinitely knowledgeable what distinguishes one person from another,

And you know this on what authority?

does this mean there are no red necks, fundamentalists or Republicans in heaven?

Not those that are damned. Although, a fundamentalist being damned would mean they are not a Christian fundamentalist. Their ticket is punched from day one.

 

[Beanieboy]

That is what it sounds like to me when I hear an atheist argue about heaven and hell.

Is that a bad thing?

It just is.

I don't understand why an atheist would be praying to God.
However, 1 John 4:7-8 says that ANYONE who loves is born of God and knows God, so, one could argue that that would include atheists.
If one does not love, they do not know God, and that includes the "saved."

But what I think the atheist is doing is acting for someone to explain how heaven and hell make sense, how someone would be sent to hell for being born into the wrong religion, or being tortured in hell for an eternity for 80 years on earth.

And what I often hear from other believers is that they believe but never really think about some of these issues, like, why would a God torture people for not loving him?

So, I fault the believers.
Basically, God loves us, without condition. (This is often not what is taught. We are taught that we are good and God loves us.) We are good and God loves us. We sin, and God loves us. We don't accept his love and he loves us.
It is God's will that we will love God back, allowing his love to flow through us and out toward our neighbors.

But Christians aren't known for their love. Christ said that all men would know that we are Christ's disciples, but the love we show one another.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Is it God that craetes evil people or is it evil people create evil people? Would you rather a race of dolls or puppets?

God, since we are born with Original Sin, and may die a non-Christian in full honesty. Given that God is omniscient, God would be evil.

That people seperate themselves fromGod does not make God the evil one in that situation.

People are born separated from God. They don't separate themselves from God.

Why do human beings smoke cigarettes or eat to obesity? I don't think you can blame God for choices made willingly.

And yet no one is morally perfect except for Jesus. How many human beings do you know who have never, ever sinned? Any? At all? Even one? If it is so easy to sin, what is the point of bringing free will into this? God stacked the deck against us.

I would think rather, this is the God you atheists demand.

You really should investigate this religion called Christianity and talk to Christians. It's a eye-opener.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[yasic]

You'd be an idiot then. I'd rather spend eternity worshipping an evil deity than being subjected to torture for an eternity. Torture trumps integrity any time, and I bet you'd realize this after a few seconds of torture.

Peter

Well in reality either option will be a torture in their own way. Sure in heaven I can enjoy spa's or hunting or side-effect-free-opium or whatever it is they do up there, but no matter how much time passes, it will always linger in my mind that I chose not to stand up against the greatest evil conceivable for selfish gains, that I am nothing but an amoral hedonist - and somehow I think that will really eat me out.

 

[BleedingHeart]

That is what it sounds like to me when I hear an atheist argue about heaven and hell.

Is that a bad thing?

For most sentient life forms, yes. For you, it's fairly typical. What would be, bad, Tergle is if you somehow manage to reproduce.

 

[Skavau]

It is unbelievably difficult to understand atheists.

Yet you claim that you have a perfect handle on me. Despite being repeatedly wrong.

Is it God that craetes evil people or is it evil people create evil people? Would you rather a race of dolls or puppets?

It would be God, by definition. At least in the sense that he would know that people would be prone to evil (by his design, or by his caprice).

That people seperate themselves fromGod does not make God the evil one in that situation.

Then you have to advance the notion that separating oneself from God is so repellent that it commands eternal torture. You also have to successfully advance the notion that anyone willingly seperates themselves from God anymore than you do Zeus, Wotan or Allah.

Why do human beings smoke cigarettes or eat to obesity? I don't think you can blame God for choices made willingly. I would think rather, this is the God you atheists demand.

If God exists, then not believing in him is a non-conviction based in both sincerity and ignorance. Misrepresenting the very nature of belief to that of smoking cigarettes and eating too much does not make a valid argument.

 

[quatona]

That is what it sounds like to me when I hear an atheist argue about heaven and hell.

Is that a bad thing?

It´s not what this atheist means to say.
So, yes, it is a bad thing since it points to a severe case of miscommunication.