Aliens From Outer Space

[luvgzus]

The Bible is truth. It tells us what God wants us to know. To presume something and say that God just didn't put it into the Bible, is to be party with liars against the revealed knowledge of God, concerning creation and morality and wisdom, and other things. The Bible says that man is made in God's image (Ja. 3:9, Gen. 9:6). What a profound blessing! Yes, I am that special to my Creator, and even more so, since I've been born again by God the Father, and now Almighty Christ "lives in me, and I in Him". The Bible does not say that angels were made in God's image, so don't make it up by presuming they "could be". This goes against revealed truth, and it's called, letting your imagination run wild (being tempted by the devil), and adding to what is in the book. "If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book." (Rev. 22:18) We all need to be careful. 2 Pet. 3:15 says that untaught and unstable people twist the truths of Scripture, "...to their own destruction." The devil is very wise. He wants to come to earth one day, in a way that people will embrace him. He wouldn't come and say, "I'm the devil." But if he can get people to believe he's a distant cousin from another galaxy, then he has accomplished a great deception, and many will have already been prepared to receive him [blind to the fact that he is Satan]. If anyone wants there to be space travelers from other planets all around us, demons will convincingly deceive them with "doctrines of demons" (1 Tim. 4:1), and they will believe it's true, and even argue against the truth, using Scripture. Satan did this to Jesus in the wilderness. But here's the truth, according to the Bible.

God has revealed Himself, angels, beasts of the field, birds of the air, etc., and of course, His beloved mankind. He has told us that the earth is indeed the center of His attention, where He and Satan wage war for the souls of mankind. The earth is where God the Son came down and took on the form of man, to suffer and die for their sins. He rose from the dead, and, "...entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption (Heb. 9:12)." Forever, Christ will be the elder brother among Christians, and He will look like a man, with nail prints in his hands and feet (Luke 24:39). And in the resurrection, we will be joint heirs with Christ, throughout all eternity, as sons and daughters of God (Rom. 8:14-17), not "ministering angels". That would be a demotion. We will rule with Christ throughout all the ages, in a new earth and new heavens, where only righteousness dwells. There will be no wicked planets somewhere else, as you made up, for us to serve. How foolish. God will burn up the present heavens and earth, and create anew, all things (2 Pet. 3:7-13).

When a person exceeds the boundaries of the Bible, foolishness will prevail. It's all that's left. We should cherish and cling to what God has revealed, and cast down other ideologies. We should not "christianize" science fiction. There is only one knowledge of God, and that's the Bible. Science fiction is not God's friend, but it opposes Him, like Satan, with made up "theories", hypothetical "what if's", engaging the reasonings of man to consider something else, other than the truth revealed. The serpent did this to Eve. He came along and gave her something more to consider, than the truth revealed. And so she did. And as a result, became mankind's first sinner, tempting her husband to join with her in her rebellion against "revealed truth". Adding to revealed truth was the first temptation, and it still prevails today. "Aliens living on other planets" is not in the Bible, so we'd better not believe it. Now realize, we're not talking about cars and coffee and television, or computers, etc., when we talk about being in the Bible. There are many things that are not listed there. God also chose not to list every lie of Satan in the Bible, so as to warn us against them. No, He simply gave us "revealed" truth to learn and believe. Anything else should be cast down! To go beyond revealed truth, especially in "days of great deception", will cause even followers of Christ, to fall away from the faith. There is a great apostasy coming, where many will fall away from the faith. Why? "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth [revealed truth, not something made up], that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thes. 2:1-11) I will live my life, by God's mercy and help, reading my Bible and clinging to every word of it. I will use discernment to test the spirits, to see if they are from God (Heb. 5:13,14; 1 Jn. 4:1) "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth [revealed truth], and will turn aside to myths [things made up]." (2 Tim. 4:3,4) I believe we are living in those days, right now. Reader, beware...

 

[Bible2]

luvgzus said:

The Bible is truth. It tells us what God wants us to know. To presume something and say that God just didn't put it into the Bible, is to be party with liars against the revealed knowledge of God, concerning creation and morality and wisdom, and other things.

The Bible is indeed truth (2 Timothy 3:16). And so are some things not put into the Bible (cf. John 21:25), such as the fact that the earth orbits the sun, and not vice versa as many Bible believers mistakenly assumed for centuries. They even mistakenly claimed that the heliocentric system was a lie which was against the revealed knowledge of God in the Bible that the sun orbits the earth. Of course the truth is that nothing in the Bible requires a geocentric system. Similarly, nothing in the Bible requires that aliens can't possibly exist.

luvgzus said:

The Bible says that man is made in God's image (Ja. 3:9, Gen. 9:6). What a profound blessing! Yes, I am that special to my Creator, and even more so, since I've been born again by God the Father, and now Almighty Christ "lives in me, and I in Him". The Bible does not say that angels were made in God's image, so don't make it up by presuming they "could be". This goes against revealed truth, and it's called, letting your imagination run wild (being tempted by the devil), and adding to what is in the book.

Note that no verse requires that only humans on this planet are made in God's image. So there's no reason to presume/add the idea that it's impossible for angels or aliens also to be made in God's image.

luvgzus said:

"If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book." (Rev. 22:18)

Revelation 22:18a is a warning against adding ideas to the text of the book of Revelation, and then publishing the altered text as if those ideas were in the original text. It's not a warning against simply saying something in a discussion such as "Velcro exists", or "Aliens could exist", ideas which aren't found in the book of Revelation (or anywhere else in the Bible), but are nonetheless true.

luvgzus said:

We all need to be careful. 2 Pet. 3:15 says that untaught and unstable people twist the truths of Scripture, "...to their own destruction."

Note that it hasn't been proven that any truth of scripture has been twisted.

 

[Bible2]

luvgzus said:

The devil is very wise. He wants to come to earth one day, in a way that people will embrace him. He wouldn't come and say, "I'm the devil." But if he can get people to believe he's a distant cousin from another galaxy, then he has accomplished a great deception, and many will have already been prepared to receive him [blind to the fact that he is Satan]. If anyone wants there to be space travelers from other planets all around us, demons will convincingly deceive them with "doctrines of demons" (1 Tim. 4:1), and they will believe it's true, and even argue against the truth, using Scripture. Satan did this to Jesus in the wilderness. But here's the truth, according to the Bible.

Note again that nothing requires that during the coming tribulation Satan will come to the earth presenting himself as an alien. As has been shown, he could present himself as an earthling and still deceive people into worshipping him, through the lies of Gnosticism.

Also, it should be pointed out that the coming one world religion of the Antichrist won't have to involve the idea of aliens at all, just as it won't have to say (as some people assume it will say) that Jesus is irrelevant or evil. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, Jesus himself isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 3:36, 1 John 5:1), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip the idea of Jesus of everything by which Jesus actually saves anyone from hell. And note that this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny a second coming of Jesus. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of the second coming of Jesus, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus, returned to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God, and he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported "proof" of his claim (cf. John 3:2). (This is why it's so important to know when and how the real Jesus' second coming will happen: Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7-20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21.)

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the whole earth under his spell (Revelation 13:13-16, Revelation 19:20), including many nominal Muslims and Christians (who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go ga-ga over his signs and wonders), he could begin to "reveal" to the world (what he could call) "The real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Luciferian Gnosticism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society.

The False Prophet could miraculously call fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported "proof" that Lucifer (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the beast) are the true God (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be a counterfeit of when the true prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person that the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who ordered people to commit genocide and kill babies (e.g. 1 Samuel 15:3), while Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44-48)".

The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (Isaiah 53, cf. 1 Peter 2:24), and rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (Psalms 16:10, cf. Acts 2:31). He died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14) which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament from the very beginning in the book of Genesis (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (1 John 4:3). During the coming worldwide reign of the Antichrist, the whole world will be deceived into rejecting YHWH and worshipping Satan (the dragon, the devil) and the Antichrist (the beast) instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9).

Satan could be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". Because the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), the Antichrist could lie and say that it's YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind, so that the Antichrist will deceive mankind into turning completely against YHWH.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus himself is the Christ (1 John 2:22) and will deny that Christ himself is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because the Antichrist and his False Prophet will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer instead (Revelation 13:4), the Antichrist and his False Prophet could say that (the non-flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the "new name" of Christ (Revelation 3:12b) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12) means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer (the devil) is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

The truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18); Jesus the Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus the Christ identified himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus the Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus the Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have the knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4).

Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians now rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as God (the Son) along with God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the coming tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18, miracle-working unclean spirits like frogs will come out from the mouth of Lucifer (the dragon), and out from the mouth of the Antichrist (the beast), and out from the mouth of the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these miracle-working unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and convince all nations to gather their armies together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) in an attempt to fight a great battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14-16, Revelation 19:19). Once all the nations' armies have gathered together at Armageddon, they will then proceed south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the second coming of the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:21-20:6).

So the second coming of Jesus Christ will be a total shock to the world. The world will have been expecting to wage war against some evil Old Testament god named "YHWH" with the help of the good Jesus (played by the False Prophet) and with the help of the true and beneficent Christ/God (played by Lucifer) and with the help of the good Son of God (played by the Antichrist) and with the help of the good angels of God (played by the fallen angels of Lucifer: Revelation 12:9). But then instead of some evil god appearing in the sky, the world could see the glorious sign of the Cross (cf. Matthew 24:30), the symbol of the good YHWH dying for our sins (Acts 20:28b). And then the world will see the glorious appearance of the real Jesus, sitting on a white horse descending from the sky (Revelation 19:11-21).

When the people of the world realize at that moment how thoroughly they have been duped, and see in the sky the huge angelic armies (2 Thessalonians 1:7) of the true Jesus, the true Christ, the true Son of God, and the good YHWH, who are all the one and the same Jesus Christ of Nazareth, they could utterly mourn and wail for themselves (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7), knowing in their spirits that Jesus has returned in wrath to destroy most of them for their unrepentant sins (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, Revelation 19:15-21).

 

[Bible2]

luvgzus said:

God has revealed Himself, angels, beasts of the field, birds of the air, etc., and of course, His beloved mankind. He has told us that the earth is indeed the center of His attention, where He and Satan wage war for the souls of mankind. The earth is where God the Son came down and took on the form of man, to suffer and die for their sins. He rose from the dead, and, "...entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption (Heb. 9:12)." Forever, Christ will be the elder brother among Christians, and He will look like a man, with nail prints in his hands and feet (Luke 24:39).

Note that none of those things requires that the earth is the center of God's attention. As has been pointed out, God could have incarnated as other intelligent life-forms on other fallen planets and died once for them as well. Also, there could be unfallen planets where the intelligent life-forms never fell into sin, and where they live in unfallen bliss just as Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden before their fall.

luvgzus said:

And in the resurrection, we will be joint heirs with Christ, throughout all eternity, as sons and daughters of God (Rom. 8:14-17), not "ministering angels". That would be a demotion.

Regarding Romans 8:14-16, note again that angels are also God's children (Job 1:6). And so aliens could be as well.

Also, regarding Romans 8:17, all it requires (in light of Hebrews 2:5) is that this planet, once regenerated, won't be handed over to the current angelic beings, but to saved humans from this planet.

Also, note that Revelation 22:3-6 shows that even when saved humans are reigning on the new earth they will still remain the servants of God, just as they will be like/equal to angels (Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:36). This in no way requires a "demotion".

luvgzus said:

We will rule with Christ throughout all the ages, in a new earth and new heavens, where only righteousness dwells. There will be no wicked planets somewhere else, as you made up, for us to serve. How foolish. God will burn up the present heavens and earth, and create anew, all things (2 Pet. 3:7-13).

Regarding 2 Peter 3:7-13, note again that its reference to the "heavens" (ouranos: G3772) doesn't have to include the entire universe, but can refer only to the first heavens, that is, only to the skies/the atmosphere of this planet (e.g. Matthew 6:26, Matthew 16:2-3, Luke 12:54,56). So the reference to the "heavens" in 2 Peter 3:7-13 (as in Hebrews 1:10-12 and Revelation 21:1) can be referring to God destroying only the atmosphere of this planet and creating a new atmosphere for it.

luvgzus said:

When a person exceeds the boundaries of the Bible, foolishness will prevail. It's all that's left. We should cherish and cling to what God has revealed, and cast down other ideologies. We should not "christianize" science fiction. There is only one knowledge of God, and that's the Bible. Science fiction is not God's friend, but it opposes Him, like Satan, with made up "theories", hypothetical "what if's", engaging the reasonings of man to consider something else, other than the truth revealed. The serpent did this to Eve. He came along and gave her something more to consider, than the truth revealed. And so she did. And as a result, became mankind's first sinner, tempting her husband to join with her in her rebellion against "revealed truth". Adding to revealed truth was the first temptation, and it still prevails today. "Aliens living on other planets" is not in the Bible, so we'd better not believe it. Now realize, we're not talking about cars and coffee and television, or computers, etc., when we talk about being in the Bible. There are many things that are not listed there. God also chose not to list every lie of Satan in the Bible, so as to warn us against them. No, He simply gave us "revealed" truth to learn and believe. Anything else should be cast down! To go beyond revealed truth, especially in "days of great deception", will cause even followers of Christ, to fall away from the faith. There is a great apostasy coming, where many will fall away from the faith. Why? "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth [revealed truth, not something made up], that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thes. 2:1-11) I will live my life, by God's mercy and help, reading my Bible and clinging to every word of it. I will use discernment to test the spirits, to see if they are from God (Heb. 5:13,14; 1 Jn. 4:1) "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth [revealed truth], and will turn aside to myths [things made up]." (2 Tim. 4:3,4) I believe we are living in those days, right now. Reader, beware...

Note that the boundaries of the Bible don't include the idea that aliens can't possibly exist, or the idea that the deception from Satan during the coming tribulation will have to involve the idea of "aliens" in any way.

 

[LastSeven]

Round and round we go. This conversation is going nowhere.

The fact is the Bible doesn't tell us about aliens. The other fact is, that doesn't mean they don't exist. And the final fact is that we will all find out some day.

And with that, I am unsubscribing from this thread. Ta ta!

 

[luvgzus]

It's obvious that Bible2 and LastSeven and others believe the Bible (revealed truth) and fantasy (any imagination man can come with) mix. This is high order deception. Truth and fantasy are opposites, even as fact and fiction are. The Bible says that God created man. SciFi says aliens seeded man from themselves. Who's right? Well, we know God's the Creator, but maybe He created aliens to be creators too [and just didn't put it in the Bible], since some scientists and SciFi movies would have us believe we're really descendants of space travelers from other planets. After all, most SciFi flicks say that there is no Creator, just like the religion of science declares. They can't prove God exists, so He doesn't, even though many scientists do believe in intelligent design now, instead of random evolution. So now, more and more scientists, instead of honoring God as Creator, are attributing creation to superior ET's who seeded the human race. How foolish our wise men are becoming. So I guess aliens are just going around seeding the universe, after their kind. Such insanity. "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" (1 Cor. 1:20) Amen.

 

[Bible2]

luvgzus said:

It's obvious that Bible2 and LastSeven and others believe the Bible (revealed truth) and fantasy (any imagination man can come with) mix. This is high order deception. Truth and fantasy are opposites, even as fact and fiction are.

Note that it hasn't been proven that the existence of aliens per se is only a fantasy and can't also be possible in fact.

As has been pointed out, men going to the moon was once only a fantasy. But that didn't make going to the moon impossible. Similarly, no fantasy can make the existence of aliens impossible.

Also, note that it hasn't been said that Biblical truth can mix with anything man can imagine. For if something imagined by man contradicts anything in the Bible, the imagined thing can't possibly be true. For everything in the Bible is true (2 Timothy 3:16).

But the existence of aliens per se wouldn't contradict anything in the Bible.

Also, the basic argument that other inhabited planets can't exist, because if they did exist the Bible would have told us about them, is like someone in the 1300s in Europe saying: "Other inhabited continents can't exist besides the ones in the Bible: Europe, Africa and Asia. For if other inhabited continents did exist the Bible would have told us about them". Of course the truth is that the Bible made no mention of the other inhabited continents of North America, South America and Australia, and yet they existed. Similarly, even though the Bible makes no mention of other inhabited planets, they could exist.

luvgzus said:

The Bible says that God created man. SciFi says aliens seeded man from themselves. Who's right? Well, we know God's the Creator, but maybe He created aliens to be creators too [and just didn't put it in the Bible], since some scientists and SciFi movies would have us believe we're really descendants of space travelers from other planets. After all, most SciFi flicks say that there is no Creator, just like the religion of science declares. They can't prove God exists, so He doesn't, even though many scientists do believe in intelligent design now, instead of random evolution. So now, more and more scientists, instead of honoring God as Creator, are attributing creation to superior ET's who seeded the human race. How foolish our wise men are becoming. So I guess aliens are just going around seeding the universe, after their kind. Such insanity. "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" (1 Cor. 1:20) Amen.

Note that the existence of aliens wouldn't require that they, instead of God, created humans on this planet. For God himself could have directly created both humans on this planet and aliens on other planets (cf. John 1:3).

Also, if someone were to claim that aliens created Adam (the forbear of all existing humans on this planet) instead of YHWH God, that claim would be false, because it would contradict the Bible's teaching that YHWH God himself created Adam (Genesis 2:7).

Also, it should be pointed out that the coming one world religion of the Antichrist will be Gnostic, denying that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) and utterly reviling YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:31). It wouldn't make sense for this religion to say that Satan is an alien who created humans on this planet. For the reason Gnosticism reviles YHWH is because YHWH is the Creator of all human fleshly bodies.

So it would make sense for us in the endtime church to stop obsessing over some "alien" deception and start arming ourselves against the Gnostic deception, which happened to have also been one of the main enemies of the early church.

Gnosticism is an ancient religious movement which says that everything material is utterly evil, while only that which is pure spirit is good. Gnosticism teaches the lie that all humans used to be pure spirit and dwelling in bliss from all eternity in heaven, the "Pleroma", until by some mishap humanity fell into the material universe and became trapped in fleshly bodies. Gnosticism reviles YHWH, the Creator of the material universe and all fleshly bodies, as an evil, subordinate deity, a "Demiurge", who is keeping humans imprisoned and suffering in fleshly bodies and in the material universe.

Gnosticism has some core teachings in common with Buddhism:

1. The material realm is unreal and evil. (Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Maya", from Hinduism.)

2. People must strive to escape the material realm completely and enter into a state which is wholly non-physical (Parinirvana in Buddhism, the Pleroma in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Brahman", from Hinduism.

3. The way for people to get free from their imprisonment within the material realm is through their minds attaining a certain level of enlightenment (Nirvana in Buddhism, Gnosis in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Moksha", from Hinduism.

4. The way for their minds to attain this certain level of enlightenment is through following the way of the Serpent (one legend of Buddhism says that the Buddha was given the true Buddhism by the King of the Serpents; and in Gnosticism, Gnosis comes from the Christ/the Serpent). Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea of the enlightening serpent, originally called "Kundalini", from Hinduism. (Regarding the serpent in Genesis 3, Gnostics see him as the good guy, just as they see YHWH as the bad guy.)


The Bible contradicts each of the four points above:

1. The material realm is real, and it was created very good (cf. Genesis 1:31). God himself is in the flesh (John 1:1,14, Luke 24:39) and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). So there's nothing evil about matter in itself.

2. People must strive to attain to a resurrection (Philippians 3:11) into an immortal, physical, human body of flesh and bone, like the immortal, physical, human body of flesh and bone which Jesus Christ obtained at his resurrection (Luke 24:39, Philippians 3:21, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54), and in which Jesus will remain forever as our fully-human mediator (1 Timothy 2:5), our fully-human high priest (Hebrews 2:16-17, Hebrews 7:24-26). His tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and when he returns he will show the scars of the crucifixion on his body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

3. Resurrected people who have been truly enlightened (Ephesians 1:18, or "illuminated": Hebrews 10:32) by Jesus Christ (John 14:6-7, John 8:32, John 3:36) will remain in the material realm, ultimately living on a new earth with God himself (Revelation 21:1-4).

4. The Serpent, Satan/Lucifer, is the deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9).

 

[luvgzus]

Prove aliens from other planets are real. You can't. It's not fantasy to say aliens don't exist. It's fantasy to say they do, and that God created them. [The definition of a lie is to create a false or misleading impression.] Bible2 gives aliens equal place with mankind, who were made in God's image. God tells us in the Bible what He created. Bible2 adds to it, telling us God created more. Again, I repeat myself, Revelation 22:18 and Deut. 4:2 teach that we should not add to or subtract from, what the Bible says. Revelation 21:1 says the first earth (only one--where intelligent life called humankind live) and the first heaven (not just the atmosphere), passed away (also Isaiah 66:22) and God created a new heaven and a new earth (just one new earth to replace the old one). He specifically says "ONE" earth, leaving no room for anyone to say He also created many others. Of course, a person can add to the Bible, and say there really are others, but God didn't say that. In Rev. 21:3 God says something wonderful, "Look, God's home is now among His people! He will live with them, and they will be His people. God Himself will be with them." There are no aliens mentioned there, only the redeemed will live with God as His people, as joint heirs with Jesus Christ. Hebrews 12:2 tells us that in the heavenly Mount Zion, we come to the New Jerusalem, the city of the living God... to angels....the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven... to God, the Judge of all and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus." No, there are no aliens there either. Why so much focus on ETs coming, in movies and TV shows. Why do so many, even scientists, want to believe human kind was seeded by these superior beings? The SciFi gospel is preaching so much these days. Why are so many Christians looking up into the heavenlies, along with the unsaved, anticipating aliens to drop down out of the sky, when Christians are supposed to be looking up for the return of Christ?" The whole thing bothers me. Satan, "with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness...", is going to startle the world in days to come. No, the Bible doesn't specifically say he will come as an alien. But it doesn't say there are even aliens out there. The devil made that one up, and I believe he is using it, even now, to deceive the world so they will accept him.

 

[Bible2]

luvgzus said:

Prove aliens from other planets are real. You can't.

Note that being unable to prove the existence of aliens doesn't mean their existence is impossible, just as, for example, someone in 1900 being unable to prove that men would go to the moon didn't make men going to the moon impossible.

luvgzus said:

It's not fantasy to say aliens don't exist.

Actually, it is a fantasy to say aliens don't exist when one has no proof that they don't exist. It's possible that if we were able to travel to other planets in the universe we would discover that there's a lot of other intelligent life out there. For, as has been pointed out, there are something like 100 billion different galaxies in the universe, each containing something like 100 billion different stars. So even if only one out of 10 billion stars has a planet with intelligent life on it, this would still mean that there are 1 trillion other inhabited planets out there.

luvgzus said:

It's fantasy to say they do, and that God created them.

So far, yes, it's still a fantasy in that there's no proof yet. But this in no way requires that their existence (their creation by God) is impossible.

luvgzus said:

[The definition of a lie is to create a false or misleading impression.]

Note that the possibility of the existence of aliens hasn't been proven to be false or misleading.

luvgzus said:

Bible2 gives aliens equal place with mankind, who were made in God's image.

Note that nothing requires that aliens aren't made in God's image just as much as humans are. So nothing requires that aliens don't have an equal place with humans.

luvgzus said:

God tells us in the Bible what He created. Bible2 adds to it, telling us God created more.

Note again that the basic argument that other inhabited planets can't exist because if they did exist the Bible would have told us about them, is like someone in the 1300s in Europe saying: "Other inhabited continents can't exist besides the ones in the Bible: Europe, Africa and Asia. For if other inhabited continents did exist the Bible would have told us about them". Of course the truth is that the Bible made no mention of the other inhabited continents of North America, South America and Australia, and yet they existed. Similarly, even though the Bible makes no mention of other inhabited planets, they could exist.

luvgzus said:

Again, I repeat myself, Revelation 22:18 and Deut. 4:2 teach that we should not add to or subtract from, what the Bible says.

Note again that Revelation 22:18a is a warning against adding ideas to the actual text of the book of Revelation, and then publishing the altered text as if those ideas were in the original text. Revelation 22:18a isn't a warning against simply saying something in a discussion such as "Velcro exists", or "Aliens could exist", ideas which aren't found in the book of Revelation (or anywhere else in the Bible), but are nonetheless true.

Regarding Deuteronomy 4:2, it was a warning against adding commandments to or deleting commandments from the Mosaic law.

luvgzus said:

Revelation 21:1 says the first earth (only one--where intelligent life called humankind live) and the first heaven (not just the atmosphere), passed away (also Isaiah 66:22) and God created a new heaven and a new earth (just one new earth to replace the old one).

Regarding your reference to "the first heaven", note that there are three different heavens in the Bible (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The first heaven would be the sky, the atmosphere, in which the birds fly (Genesis 1:20). The second heaven would be outer space, where the sun, moon and stars reside (Deuteronomy 4:19). Where God resides is called "the third heaven" (2 Corinthians 12:2b, cf. Revelation 4:1-2), and so it would be beyond outer space, such as in a "higher" spatial dimension.

Regarding Revelation 21:1, note again that its reference to a new "heaven" (ouranos: G3772) doesn't have to mean a new entire universe, but can refer only to a new first heaven, that is, only to the sky/the atmosphere of this planet. That's why the same Greek word translated as "heaven" can be translated simply as the "air" in which the birds fly (e.g. Matthew 6:26, Matthew 8:20, Matthew 13:32), or as the "sky" which can turn red at sunset (Matthew 16:2-3) or can become filled with rainclouds and winds (Luke 12:54,56). So the reference to a new "heaven" in Revelation 21:1 can simply be referring to a new atmosphere for the earth.

Regarding Isaiah 66:22, its reference to a new "heavens" (shamayim: H8064) likewise doesn't have to mean a new entire universe, but can refer only to a new first heavens, that is, only to the skies/the atmosphere of this planet. That's why the same Hebrew word translated as "heavens" can be translated simply as the "air" in which the birds fly (e.g. Genesis 1:30, 1 Samuel 17:44, Proverbs 30:19). So the reference to new "heavens" in Isaiah 66:22 can simply be referring to a new atmosphere for the earth.

luvgzus said:

He specifically says "ONE" earth, leaving no room for anyone to say He also created many others. Of course, a person can add to the Bible, and say there really are others, but God didn't say that.

Note that it hasn't been said that there's more than one planet called "Earth". Other inhabited planets could be called something different, just as we call the other planets even in our own solar system by names other than "Earth".

luvgzus said:

In Rev. 21:3 God says something wonderful, "Look, God's home is now among His people! He will live with them, and they will be His people. God Himself will be with them." There are no aliens mentioned there, only the redeemed will live with God as His people, as joint heirs with Jesus Christ. Hebrews 12:2 tells us that in the heavenly Mount Zion, we come to the New Jerusalem, the city of the living God... to angels....the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven... to God, the Judge of all and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus." No, there are no aliens there either.

Regarding Revelation 21:2-3, note again that something similar could already be in place on billions of other inhabited planets. For just as the body of each individual believer on this planet is the tabernacle/the temple of God (1 Corinthians 6:19), so each regenerated planet could have its own tabernacle/holy city of God in which God is reigning simultaneously, just as he can reign in each believer on this planet simultaneously (John 14:23, Ephesians 3:17).

Regarding New Jerusalem currently being in the third heaven, note that each inhabited planet could have its own third heaven, above each planet, in a fourth spatial dimension, a spiritual realm outside of the three spatial dimensions of the physical universe.

luvgzus said:

Why so much focus on ETs coming, in movies and TV shows.

Probably because it's exciting to think about, and so it gains viewers, and so it gains profits for the companies making the movies and TV shows.

But this doesn't require that an alien visitation will ever actually happen. For interstellar travel by aliens could be physically impossible because of the practical limits which special relativity places on how fast matter can travel.

Note that there's also a lot of focus in science fiction on time travel, because it too is exciting to think about. But this doesn't require that time travel will ever actually happen. It could be physically impossible for humans because of innate physical laws of the universe.

luvgzus said:

Why do so many, even scientists, want to believe human kind was seeded by these superior beings?

Probably because they don't want to believe in YHWH God as the Creator of man (Genesis 2:7). But their trying to replace YHWH with aliens still doesn't address the problem of them having to explain who created the aliens.

luvgzus said:

The SciFi gospel is preaching so much these days. Why are so many Christians looking up into the heavenlies, along with the unsaved, anticipating aliens to drop down out of the sky, when Christians are supposed to be looking up for the return of Christ?" The whole thing bothers me. Satan, "with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness...", is going to startle the world in days to come.

Note again that the mere existence of aliens in no way requires that all aliens must be good and acceptable, just as the mere existence of angels in no way requires that all angels must be good and acceptable. We would have to judge an alien in the same way that we would judge an angel, by the doctrine that he teaches (Galatians 1:8), by his faithfulness to God's Word the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4, 1 Timothy 4:1), by his obedience to God.

Also, note again that the Bible doesn't say that Satan appears as a good alien, but it does say that he can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). So worrying about being deceived only by "aliens" is a dangerous distraction; we need to be careful of being deceived even by angels of light.

luvgzus said:

No, the Bible doesn't specifically say he will come as an alien. But it doesn't say there are even aliens out there. The devil made that one up, and I believe he is using it, even now, to deceive the world so they will accept him.

Note again that the Bible wouldn't have to say that there are aliens out there for them to be out there.

Also, note again that it hasn't been proven that the idea of aliens per se is a lie, or that the devil will employ the idea of aliens at all in his deception of the world. As has been shown, the coming deception will be based on the lies of Gnosticism, under which lies it wouldn't make sense to exalt anyone who made our human bodies of flesh.

 

[Badboy2011]

Aliens! Ha! This forum rocks!

 

[luvgzus]

Here is Biblical proof that aliens don't live on other planets, in other star systems: God tells us that the sun, moon and stars were put into the expanse of the heavens, "to give light on the earth" (Gen. 1:14-17; Jer. 31:35), to separate the day from the night, and to be signs for seasons and for days and years. Scripture goes no further than this, and Christians shouldn't either. Anything else is made up, which Bible2 has done quite well. The Bible is not hypothetical, it is fact, and that's why I love it so. This demonic lie about intelligent beings living on other planets, didn't even start until the middle of the 1600's, with a French Scientist named Fontenelle. His book was called Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds. This was translated into English in about 1686. So for almost 1700 years , the Bible was respected and honored as revealed truth. But now, in these days of deception, it is under great attack. Do away with the revealed truth of the Bible, and people will believe anything, even aliens living on other planets. By the way Bible2, in Revelation 21:5, it says, "And He who sits on the throne said, 'Behold, I am making all things new.' And He said, 'Write, for these words are faithful and true.'" So it is faithful and true that when God says "ALL", He really does mean that the old universe is out, with all its defilement and rampant unrighteousness, and the new one is in. Hallelujah! This will be my last correspondense with Bible2. I'm sorry I couldn't help. Jeremiah tells us, "They have taught their tongue to speak lies...Your dwelling is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know Me," declares the Lord (5,6).

 

[KerrMetric]

Just remember - the Bible doesn't mention partial differential equations, the Twin Prime conjecture or a Grand Slam breakfast at Denny's. I assure you though - all exist.

 

[KerrMetric]

The Bible is not a book of logic. It is not an absolute system for determining proof or falsification.

 

[NumberOneSon]

Just remember - the Bible doesn't mention partial differential equations, the Twin Prime conjecture or a Grand Slam breakfast at Denny's. I assure you though - all exist.

Ah, man....I could go for a Grand Slam about now.

 

[Badboy2011]

The Bible is not a book of logic. It is not an absolute system for determining proof or falsification.

It would seem to me that since God doesn't speak of aliens but only angels, humans, half-breeds (angels/humans), and evil spirits, then the aliens would have to be the half-breeds. They'd have to be some sort of creature created by mixing the fallen angelic with humanity.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Ah, man....I could go for a Grand Slam about now.

No kidding, are they still $1.99?

 

[jonsun80]

If aliens visit us a don't know of Christ and don't have the Bible, does that mean we're wrong about all of it? shouldn't they have the exact same God as us?

 

[Badboy2011]

If aliens visit us a don't know of Christ and don't have the Bible, does that mean we're wrong about all of it? shouldn't they have the exact same God as us?

And you've just nailed a possibility for the big delusion that makes people follow and worship the devil.

If an alien race shows up saying they are humanity's master race, people are going to fall for it, and deny the Bible.

 

[eachallberg]

To get back on topic...

What is toroidal shaped, floating over head, and shiny? A cloud, a halo, what... what is his glory?

Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

Pillar of cloud.

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

Heaven or heavens? Paradise or the sky?

To cross reference Jude 1:8
KJV: ...speak evil of dignities.
ESV: ...blaspheme the glorious ones.
NIV: ...slander celestial beings.

Halo, glory, nimbus.

Search for "the Lord came down" in scripture.

Please stand firm.

Grace, mercy, and peace.

 

[Bible2]

luvgzus said:

Here is Biblical proof that aliens don't live on other planets, in other star systems: God tells us that the sun, moon and stars were put into the expanse of the heavens, "to give light on the earth" (Gen. 1:14-17; Jer. 31:35), to separate the day from the night, and to be signs for seasons and for days and years.

Note that while God indeed created the sun and the moon for the planet Earth (Genesis 1:14-17), this doesn't contradict that he could have also made (at some prior times, such as billions of years earlier) a trillion other suns (stars) and moons for a trillion other inhabited planets elsewhere in the universe.

Regarding Genesis 1:16, note that it only requires that at that time God created the sun and the moon, for there's no "he made" in the original Hebrew before "the stars also", which phrase could simply mean that the stars (which God could have created at some prior times, such as billions of years earlier) also rule the night along with the moon.

Or, because there's no "the" before "stars" in the original Hebrew, Genesis 1:16 could be referring to God making only some stars at that time to serve as "signs for seasons" (Genesis 1:14), such as the stars in the Mazzaroth (cf. the Zodiacal) constellations (Job 38:32a). It should be noted that the stars that make up the Mazzaroth constellations are extremely few in relation to the total number of stars in the universe, and there are only some 6,000 or so stars visible to the naked eye in the night sky as a whole, whereas the universe contains some 100 billion different galaxies each containing some 100 billion different stars. So even if Genesis 1:16 is referring to God creating at that time all of the 6,000 or so stars visible to the naked eye in the night sky as a whole, this in no way requires that God created all the other stars in the universe at that time, which other stars aren't visible to the naked eye, and so would serve no function for people on the earth before the invention of telescopes beginning in the early 1600s A.D.

luvgzus said:

Scripture goes no further than this, and Christians shouldn't either. Anything else is made up, which Bible2 has done quite well. The Bible is not hypothetical, it is fact, and that's why I love it so.

Note again that the basic argument that other inhabited planets can't exist because if they did exist the Bible would have told us about them, is like someone in the 1300s in Europe saying: "Other inhabited continents can't exist besides the ones in the Bible: Europe, Africa and Asia. For if other inhabited continents did exist the Bible would have told us about them". Of course the truth is that the Bible made no mention of the other inhabited continents of North America, South America and Australia, and yet they existed. Similarly, even though the Bible makes no mention of other inhabited planets, they could exist.

luvgzus said:

This demonic lie about intelligent beings living on other planets, didn't even start until the middle of the 1600's, with a French Scientist named Fontenelle. His book was called Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds. This was translated into English in about 1686.

Note that intelligent beings living on other planets hasn't been proven to be a lie, and that Fontenelle's book in the mid-1600s A.D. was probably inspired by all the new heavenly bodies brought into view through the invention of telescopes beginning in the early 1600s A.D.

luvgzus said:

So for almost 1700 years , the Bible was respected and honored as revealed truth. But now, in these days of deception, it is under great attack. Do away with the revealed truth of the Bible, and people will believe anything, even aliens living on other planets.

Note that intelligent beings living on other planets doesn't contradict any truth of the Bible.

luvgzus said:

By the way Bible2, in Revelation 21:5, it says, "And He who sits on the throne said, 'Behold, I am making all things new.' And He said, 'Write, for these words are faithful and true.'" So it is faithful and true that when God says "ALL", He really does mean that the old universe is out, with all its defilement and rampant unrighteousness, and the new one is in. Hallelujah!

Note that nothing in Revelation 21:5 requires that it's referring to all things in the universe, instead of all things on earth and in its atmosphere (the first heaven), as referred to previously in the context (Revelation 21:1). Another case where "all things" is limited by its context is Hebrews 8:5b, which must mean all things related to the Mosaic tabernacle, not all things in the universe.

luvgzus said:

This will be my last correspondense with Bible2. I'm sorry I couldn't help. Jeremiah tells us, "They have taught their tongue to speak lies...Your dwelling is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know Me," declares the Lord (5,6).

Note again that intelligent beings living on other planets hasn't been proven to be a lie.