• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The death of the Virgin in RCC imagery

godisreal36

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,645
94
State of ohio, USA
✟2,178.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." --Plato

Im not sure If Plato was a follower of Christ or not but well said anyways, thank you Iconicstudent.
 
Upvote 0
B

bbbbbbb

Guest
Does he really have to :)

BedPan_Comp07D1.jpg
:D :D :D
 
Upvote 0
B

bbbbbbb

Guest
If someone is inculpably ignorant, they cannot be charged with any crime. We are all bound to follow the Natural Law:


But only those who are Baptized are bound to follow the Divine Positive Law, the same as circumcision under the Old Covenant:


But still, people who have not been taught that Christ's Church teaches something dogmatically can be charged with no crime. In the United States they say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". So if I'm driving down the road and I get pulled over for speeding, I cannot say "I didn't see the sign" (I could, but it would be no help) because we are obligated to know the rules of the road and to pay attention to speed limits that may be posted where we are driving. So there is a difference between culpable ignorance and incupable ignorance.

So those who are Baptized have the right and obligation to learn the Faith. But if they are not taught it or taught that something which is true is false by those they consider to be authorities, they can be charged with no crime.



Those who are simply not taught something or were taught wrongly are not actually guilty of the crime of heresy (even though objectively it is a crime, they are essentially "not guilty by reason of ignorance").

They simply have heard less of the Gospel and are in ignorance of the fullness of the Truth. If it is not their fault, they cannot be held accountable for their ignorance. This is also true with those who are Catholics but have been taught wrongly (which is very common in the Modernist crisis, which we are suffering), although it is a sin on the part of those who knowingly teach (or what they should have known is) contrary to what the Church teaches.

So if someone knows that Christ's Church teaches something dogmatically but still, for whatever reason, rejects it then they are guilty of heresy. St. Thomas says, "but if he is not obstinate, he is no longer in heresy but only in error." (Summa, II-II, Q. 5, a. 3) The vast majority of people do not obstinately reject the teachings of the Catholic Church because they have not been taught them and been taught that they are the teachings of Christ.

Thanks for the explanation. It would require an omniscient God to wade through all these murky waters. There are multitudes of baptized folks who don't have the slightest inkling of knowledge about this dogma (I speak, primarily, of Protestants). I suppose they are probably the better off in their ignorance because if they were not ignorant, then they would be culpable and would probably not embrace the dogma.

As for myself, I am content to put my faith in the essential truths of Christianity as revealed by God in the Bible. There is more than enough there to heed, such as loving my neighbor as myself and loving God with my whole heart and mind. Once I have mastered those two I will start working on the others.

I am, seriously, glad that God is the One who will sort these things out and not me. If it were up to me I fear that I would really make a mess of things.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Alot of Catholics believed She died before being Assumed. Not sure what the problem is here actually. The Dogma reads that at the end of Her earthly life, Mother Mary was Assumed into Heaven. It doesn't say She was Assumed into Heaven without seeing death.
"A lot" is pretty general.
How many or what percentage does your Denomination consider "a lot" :confused:
 
Upvote 0
B

bbbbbbb

Guest
Define.

Do I believe that our sins were transferred to Christ and then Christ was condemned as a sinner? No.

Sin is not transferable. We suffer the effects of Adam's sin (prior to Baptism), but we do not inherit his sin. We benefit from the effects of Christ's Sacrifice (through Baptism, the Eucharist and the other Sacraments), but He did not take our sins into Himself.

Christ, throughout His life, was obedient to God. He, according to His Human Nature, rendered to God that which He is due. He was given responsibility or "headship" over the human race just as Adam did. Adam wasn't the first human to sin, Eve was, but mankind fell because of Adam's sin. Christ was given this headship over the human race as the Second Adam. Christ wasn't the first human to be totally obedient to God, Mary was, but mankind was saved because of Christ's obedience.

The idea that Christ was "vicariously punished" for our sins sets a strange opposition in the Trinity. Christ died as a Sacrifice for sin, not that our sins were transferred to Him first and then He was punished for them. I think Martin Luther came up with that idea. Luther had a lot of emotional, psychological, and spiritual problems (and even the Lutherans admit this, as it was evident in the movie Luther).

Christ died so as to spill the entirety of His Precious Blood, one drop of which could save a thousand worlds. He died to show the deadly effects of sin. He died to give birth to the Church. He died so that we can die and be raised again with Him through Baptism. He died because "unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die, itself remaineth alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." (Jn 12:24-25). He died so He could rise again from the dead and prove once and for all His Divinity. He died so He could descend into Hell conquer it, destroying death once and for all.

But He did not die as a "punishment".

How do you understand Isaiah 53:4-12?

4 Surely our grief He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carred;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God and afflicted.
5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed,
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way,
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him

7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to salughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearer,
Sko He did not open His mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
9 His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Becuase He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.

10 But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
11 As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because he poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet Him Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fireinfolding
Upvote 0

PilgrimToChrist

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2009
3,847
402
✟6,075.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
How do you understand Isaiah 53:4-12?

You will have to be more specific. I think we all agree with the NT that it is a prophecy of Christ's Passion.

Don't you agree that Calvin's idea that Christ was damned and suffered in hell to be blasphemous?
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
That says it all. Shall in talk about False teaching now? I dont think it nessesary.

Thank you brother.
Hmm...well this thread concerns the death of Mary in RCC imagery.

The death of the Virgin in RCC imagery

I don't focus on Mary too much [as do the RCs, EOs and Muslims do] and one reason I don't post much in Mary threads on GT :)
 
Upvote 0

godisreal36

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,645
94
State of ohio, USA
✟2,178.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
Its not us who drags you Vatican and Pope and Bishops through the mud, its you young Iconic student and your disrespect for others and for Gods own Word.

Show some respect or you'll disrespect your Vatican even more.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Its not us who drags you Vatican and Pope and Bishops through the mud, its you young Iconic student.

Show some respect or you'll disrespect your Vatican even more.
If I am not mistaken, "laconicstudent" is joining the EO Denomination, not the RC Denomination :confused:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rhamiel
Upvote 0

laconicstudent

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2009
11,671
720
✟16,224.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Its not us who drags you Vatican and Pope and Bishops through the mud, its you young Iconic student.

Show some respect or you'll disrespect your Vatican even more.

I realize this might shock you, but not everyone who disagrees with you and asks that we respect the Holy Mother of God is Roman Catholic.
 
Upvote 0

laconicstudent

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2009
11,671
720
✟16,224.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
We speak english here my young Iconicstudent.

Jesus is Lord and Master and there is only one Holy Father.


Through the prayers of our holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us. Amen.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Yep, I've noticed.
Kewl!
Gotta finish watching the ending of "The Godfather".
They are now baptizing the son of M. Corleone before the slaughter begins against his enemies. :thumbsup:
G'night all :wave:
 
Upvote 0

laconicstudent

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2009
11,671
720
✟16,224.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Kewl!
Gotta finish watching the ending of "The Godfather".
They are now baptizing the son of M. Corleone before the slaughter begins against his enemies. :thumbsup:
G'night all :wave:

Such a well-done scene. :wave:
 
Upvote 0

laconicstudent

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2009
11,671
720
✟16,224.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
I'M done. I apologize for my arguing of the Word. I'm tired of fighting Love anyways. You guys hunt the heretics, ill hunt for more humility for myself and less pride and take this as a lesson on how to love better.

I think i need to represent my own Masters teaching better also. No more hunting for me. Praise the Lord, back on the road to love and mercy with out the messy complications. Ill go get the Log out from my own eye before i try and help another with theirs

All things work for the Good of those that love God. I choose to believe that.

Goodbye. :wave:

Here's a sermon given on the feast of the Dormition of the Mother of God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gjMkwGGMzs
 
Upvote 0

godisreal36

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,645
94
State of ohio, USA
✟2,178.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother,Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
John 19:25-27 (KJV)

Woman, behold thy son! ??? Behold thy mother! ???


Im going to go read some proverbs and learn how to love.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You will have to be more specific. I think we all agree with the NT that it is a prophecy of Christ's Passion.

Don't you agree that Calvin's idea that Christ was damned and suffered in hell to be blasphemous?

I did not know that about Calvin's theology. Wow!

I am sure Mary did not sin and I am certain Jesus was not "damned".
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Very funny my catholic bro. :D

I was asking Sun if she thought that CF is a church because so many of us meet here in His name... I would link the thread but I have to go to church shortly. ;)
:)
I will try to hunt it up when I have time
 
Upvote 0

laconicstudent

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2009
11,671
720
✟16,224.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
So you defeat Satan with hate? lol I'm glad to have nothing to do with you and you methods anymore.

Wut?

Love is greater than A false impression that Our Almighty God has a mother, a baby has a mother.

Ill go learn love again iconic student

"If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (Θεοτόκος), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, “The Word was made flesh”] let him be anathema."

--First Anathema against Nestorius, Third Ecumenical Council, 431 A.D.
 
Upvote 0