The death of the Virgin in RCC imagery

[Thekla]

You know it's Jesus Himself saying these things right? You find me the word 'prophet' in the org. greek plz...I can't: λέγω ὑμῖν, μείζων ἐν γεννητοῖς γυναικῶν Ἰωάννου οὐδείς ἐστιν: ὁ δὲ μικρότερος ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ τοῦ θεοῦ μείζων αὐτοῦ ἐστιν.

KJV is grossly mistranslated...just see Genesis 22:1 if you don't believe me.

It is in the original Greek; apparently you are using a Bible translated from a different manuscript than the one used by the KJV.

Why would Christ call John the Baptist greater than Christ ?

 

[98cwitr]

It is in the original Greek; apparently you are using a Bible translated from a different manuscript than the one used by the KJV.

Why would Christ call John the Baptist greater than Christ ?

No, Im looking at the org. greek...please find the word 'prophet' for me and post it b/c I am failing to do so.

...Because he came to serve and not be served, read all of Luke 7 to understand that concept and context

 

[Thekla]

No, Im looking at the org. greek...please find the word 'prophet' for me b/c I am failing to do so.

...Because he came to serve and not be served, read all of Luke 7 to understand that concept and context

Here is a link:
Luke 7 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Who do we worship: Jesus Christ (Who was born of woman, per Paul) or John the Baptist (who was born of woman) ?

 

[ivebeenshown]

Who do we worship: Jesus Christ (Who was born of woman, per Paul) or John the Baptist (who was born of woman) ?

 

[Thekla]

But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:11

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is in the original Greek; apparently you are using a Bible translated from a different manuscript than the one used by the KJV.

Why would Christ call John the Baptist greater than Christ ?

You know it's Jesus Himself saying these things right? You find me the word 'prophet' in the org. greek plz...I can't: λέγω ὑμῖν, μείζων ἐν γεννητοῖς γυναικῶν Ἰωάννου οὐδείς ἐστιν: ὁ δὲ μικρότερος ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ τοῦ θεοῦ μείζων αὐτοῦ ἐστιν.

KJV is grossly mistranslated...just see Genesis 22:1 if you don't believe me.

It is found in 2 of the major GTs. The W-H does not have it.

NASB leaves it out along with "the baptist".

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

Textus Rec.)
Luke 7:28 legw gar umin meizwn en gennhtoiV gunaikwn profhthV iwannou tou baptistou oudeiV estin o de mikroteroV en th basileia tou qeou meizwn autou estin

W-H )
Luke 7:28 legw *** umin meizwn en gennhtoiV gunaikwn ***** iwannou *** ******* oudeiV estin o de mikroteroV en th basileia tou qeou meizwn autou estin

Byz./Maj.)
Luke 7:28 legw gar umin meizwn en gennhtoiV gunaikwn profhthV iwannou tou baptistou oudeiV estin o de mikroteroV en th basileia tou qeou meizwn autou estin

NKJV) Luke 7:28 "For I say to you, among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

NASB) Luke 7:28 "I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

 

[Standing Up]

Yes, PoJ was not what I meant. My kids had me a little disoriented before they were finally sent to bed.

I meant to bring up the apocryphal writings from around 400 AD that speak of Mary being assumed into Heaven.

Writings: CHURCH FATHERS: Assumption of Mary

So, for 400 years there is silence. This means by definition that a teaching about her end is not apostolic. Folks obviously believe it, and that's okay I guess, just please don't pass it on as apostolic.

 

[98cwitr]

So which version did I post from greekbible.com? I do not know.....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So which version did I post from greekbible.com? I do not know.....

Don't know......but if you want to look at the greek texts more deeply, you might try this site.
I generally compare 3 greek Mss, but if they all disagree, I will generally look at the Alexandrian, which is shown at the link at bottom
So here we have 4 greek texts with 2 different renderings....I generally go with the T-R and B-M texts........or one can just flip a coin ehehe

http://www.christianforums.com/t7444631-3/#post54211675

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt
Parallel Greek New Testament Index

Alexandrian

Luke 7:28
legw umin meizwn en gennhtoiV gunaikwn iwannou oudeiV estin o de mikroteroV en th basileia tou qeou meizwn autou estin

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So, for 400 years there is silence. This means by definition that a teaching about her end is not apostolic. Folks obviously believe it, and that's okay I guess, just please don't pass it on as apostolic.

No, today we only have what we have. We use it as best we can. Just because you do not have a writing saying exactly what you are looking for does not mean it was not there.

We look to the past and what we have that has survived and we can surmise much. The Assumption of Mary is one thing that we do have surviving records that speak of her Assumption. But I am not aware of anything from the past that says she is buried somewhere.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Huh?

I have no idea what you mean by the statement "There are only four Dogmas in the Catholic Church which have been enunciated as dogmas and these are the four Marian Dogmas". First off, there are many, many more (just look at the list of any doctrinal 'anathemas' by a Council) and secondly, only three Marian dogmas have been formally defined (Her Ever-Virginity has never been formally defined but it is still dogmatic).

What I meant to say is that the four Marian dogmas are unique within Catholicism in that they were ratified as ex cathedra statements. I am not aware of any other dogmas that have been declared such by an ex cathedra statement. As a result, the definition of dogma is rather hazy to people such as myself. In other threads here the question has been raised as to what the actual dogmas of the Catholic Church are and there were a wide range of answers going from the Four Maria Dogmas to all the teachings promulgated by the Catholic Church.

Also, I do not know what you mean by "there is general concensus that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is dogmatic in nature, it has never been declared to be Dogma". A catechism, by its very nature, is not a dogma but explains dogma and other teachings. There are many different Catholic Catechisms, just because the Catechism of the Catholic Church (to which I assume you are referring) is the newest (1992) doesn't make it the best or most accurate to explain Catholic teaching.

I am aware of the various Cathechism of the Catholic Church. My statement was intended to convey the meaning you expressed much more clearly, e.g. that the Catechism (containing dogmatic material (e.g. explication of dogmas)) is not Dogma in itself, nor has it been declared to be dogma (which, although conceivable, is rather absurd to consider). There are a variety of opinions regarding the current Cathechism and I am not able to render a valid opinion of my own.

"Assumption" means a "taking up into Heaven". (A logical assumption is a "taking up" of an idea). It doesn't matter whether the person has died and been resurrected or not.

But yes, you are right, there is no dogmatic definition about what happened to Enoch and Elijah, we know no more than the Biblical accounts.

But with Mary we do know because it is part of what the Apostles handed down to us.

You only know according to your faith that the Oral Tradition of the Catholic Church is true and infallible. I could counter that I do not know because of my lack of faith in that Oral Tradition.

 

[bbbbbbb]

(I removed your Marian blue, even if it was apropos...)

If I say that the crime of murder deserves a punishment of death, does that mean that everyone who dies is guilty of murder? Just because B is the result of A doesn't mean that every time B occurs it is the result of A.

I am pleased that you noted my particular choice of color and will continue to use it. I happen to like it myself, including its association with Mary.

To your statement, every crime is given some form of penalty in human law. For some crimes the penalty may be capital punishment, as in the case of murder. For others it may be simply some form of restitution. We see this explicated in the Old Testament law in its applications to civil government. God has declared that the punishment (or wages) for sin is death so that all sin, being an offense to a holy God, deserves death. He established the punishment and He metes it out as Judge and Ruler of mankind.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Why is the color blue associated with Mary?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Why is the color blue associated with Mary?

The RCC and Orthodox use colors for Icons and/or symbolism.

Ex:

Blue colors symbolize heavenly grace. The Virgin Mary is often depicted wearing blue clothing. Blue also represents hope, good health and the state of servitude

Symbolism of Colors

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

The RCC and Orthodox use colors for Icons and/or symbolism.

Ex:
Symbolism of Colors

Thank you for answering my question. I appreciate it.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Thank you for answering my question. I appreciate it.

I am glad to be of what ever little help I can be.

 

[godisreal36]

Why is the Gospel not all we are teaching? Why do we think it so important to hold on to teaching whether it be right or wrong, if its not the pure Gospel without any stumbling block of any kind whether that block be true or false?

Wouldn't Mary agree that the plain and simple Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ be pure and not watered down by any other teaching of any kind whether it be true or false?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Diligently,
There is a well-established "code" for Orthodox icons in how they are drawn and colored. Iconography was one way of teaching an illiterate population. Colors, common symbols and even positions of hands are used in illustrating theology. Since I can't post links yet, use this for a view of Christ Pantocrator (all-creator). Just take out the space between the www. The odd positioning of His right hand is designed to spell out IX Θ, the first three letters of ICHTHYS, Jesus Christ God the Son, Savior

w ww.comeandseeicons.com/icxc/inp31.htm

Brian

 

[godisreal36]

I got the Link, ill check it out

 

[AveMaria_45]

YouTube - Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate