What Are Your Beliefs About 'Ghosts'?

Ayersy

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It really doesn't matter whether anyone else believes it or not, it's true anyway. What was interesting was that it only happened when each of us was alone.

That makes it less trustworthy, if anything, but definitely not any more interesting. All too horror-story like, for my liking.

If ghosts are as real as people claim, then it shouldn't matter who was around. It should be like someone throwing a tennis ball at your head, it doesn't matter about your opinion on the tennis ball, you're gonna feel it, and other people could see it, too.
 
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Duckybill

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That makes it less trustworthy, if anything, but definitely not any more interesting. All too horror-story like, for my liking.

If ghosts are as real as people claim, then it shouldn't matter who was around. It should be like someone throwing a tennis ball at your head, it doesn't matter about your opinion on the tennis ball, you're gonna feel it, and other people could see it, too.
I didn't say it was a ghost.

Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;
 
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Ayersy

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I didn't say it was a ghost.

Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;

Was it Satan, making footstep noises and clicking lightswitches? Honestly, I would have thought he'd have better things to do with his time than make mildly irritating noises. ;)

If not ghosts, then what caused said noises?
 
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Ayersy

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Do your senses perceive protons and neutrons? DNA? 10 dimensions of string theory? (etc etc)

A whole "world" of things going on, that our 5 senses miss entirely.

These are different though, in that these are explanations for things within our world, ways of explaining physics, genetics, etc. These are things which occur within the physical realm, whereas with the paranormal, this would suggest something beyond the physical realm, for which, there is absolutely NO evidence.
 
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Booko

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A whole "world" of things going on, that our 5 senses miss entirely.

Even if something can be perceived by our senses, we can mistake what we perceive.

There is no wholly reliable epistemological means. All of them have limitations.

Even empiricism.
 
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razeontherock

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I rented a house that you could hear footsteps and a light switch clicking over and over. I heard it as did my wife. It was not imagination.

In the same house with the harp, my Sister saw many many odd things. I saw a few others, but the really unexpected thing was our Brother, a devout atheist, saw so much he (like ayersy here) couldn't process it and he left.

Here's a short list:

hear the bicycle of a roommate pull up, very distinctive sound. You remember the 10 speeds in the 80's? Here all the normal sounds of him putting it away, up to and including the doorhandle to the inside turning. Nothing out of the ordinary. Except no one was there! Until 5 minutes later, when Clay did the exact same thing, like always.

That was the final straw for my brother, who checked out the first "arrival" thoroughly. So ayersy's theory is now shot full of holes.

Water faucets would turn on full blast, and turn off just before you could do so, so many times it's hardly worth a mention. Oldest trick in the book ;)

Same thing with the radio. And alarm clock / radio. Troubling thing about this is when you turn away and it turns back on, it's not necessarily the same station. How's that work Ayersy?

Wendy, the harp player, was crying, at her harp. I don't know why. Her hair gets pushed back from her face, and her tears wiped away. No one is there.

Why my Sister and I hear it (same harp, different time) being drug across the floor, and when I take a look the top of it is above the door to Wendy's room, looking for all the world like a human head crunched in the closed door I don't know. I do know all points of entry were closed and locked from the inside, and all possible hiding places large enough for a person were checked thoroughly, and empty.

Go ahead and explain that away ... ^_^
 
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Booko

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Was it Satan, making footstep noises and clicking lightswitches? Honestly, I would have thought he'd have better things to do with his time than make mildly irritating noises. ;)

If not ghosts, then what caused said noises?

I don't know, but if those noises had happened to me and my husband, we would've set up a means of recording the noises.

A few years ago, around 8-9pm our cats would go bonkers and hang about the sofa, looking like they were seeking out prey. We didn't hear anything...at first. Finally we heard the noises in the wall. Turned out to be rats. We had ducks in the backyard and the duck food attracted the wood rats.

I get calls from homeowners all the time in the fall and winter when I'm staffing the Master Gardener phone line. They ask about noises in the attic. Depending on what time of day/night they hear noises, you can tell if it's grey squirrels or flying squirrels in the attic.

For all I know there weren't noises when 2 people were in the room because y'all were talking to each other or making too much other sort of noise between the two of you and it spooked the critters into silence.

Where did the sounds originate from and were you able to look for spoor? I'd believe it was unwanted critters before assuming ghosts were involved.

Just a thought.
 
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razeontherock

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These are different though, in that these are explanations for things within our world, ways of explaining physics, genetics, etc. These are things which occur within the physical realm, whereas with the paranormal, this would suggest something beyond the physical realm, for which, there is absolutely NO evidence.

FALSE. It simply refers to things we haven't discovered yet.
 
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awitch

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I rented a house that you could hear footsteps and a light switch clicking over and over. I heard it as did my wife. It was not imagination.

How do you make the jump from spooky noises to Satanic activity?
 
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SithDoughnut

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FALSE. It simply refers to things we haven't discovered yet.

Specifically, the word paranormal refers to claims of events that are beyond scientific explanation, not things that we haven't discovered yet. If we hadn't discovered them, there would be no claims. However, the word is most commonly used (possibly exclusively used) within the context of the supernatural, which refers to things that are beyond or do not fit into physical laws. It's a bit more than 'stuff we haven't discovered yet'.
 
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Rationalt

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The bible does teach that what we perceive with our 5 senses are just the tip of the iceberg, and I find that to be correct.

As does science.

Can you relate what you experienced to the biblical teachings?.

To my limited knowledge the bible seems to say that ghosts are nothing but demons out to decieve people.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Who/what else could it have been?

Anything? Why are you jumping to such extreme conclusions? We might as well go for space aliens or invisible unicorns at this rate.

Ever hear footsteps walk across an old wooden floor, or a light switch going on and off? There was no mistaking whatsoever.

Ever consider that those sounds had a mundane source? And that a light switch had mechanical problems?

It takes so very little for people to go for the ghost-of-the-gaps conclusions.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Duckybill

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Anything? Why are you jumping to such extreme conclusions? We might as well go for space aliens or invisible unicorns at this rate.
I know exactly what I heard. It was not just one instance.
Ever consider that those sounds had a mundane source? And that a light switch had mechanical problems?

It takes so very little for people to go for the ghost-of-the-gaps conclusions.
It's amazing how far some will go to disprove something they know absolutely nothing about.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Who/what else could it have been? Ever hear footsteps walk across an old wooden floor, or a light switch going on and off? There was no mistaking whatsoever.

You have far too much confidence in your ability to process and interpret sounds. When someone closes a door in a film, it sounds like it's unmistakeably a door closing right? Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foley_(filmmaking)

Foley is often achieved through making sound effects that don't actually sound like the real thing, because our expectations of what something should sound like don't always tally up with reality. Without these fake added effects, we wouldn't believe that it was real. Perhaps you already know about Foley, but then I wonder why you still think that there is only one possible cause for a sound. There are several ways of making the sound of footsteps across a wooden floor, especially considering that there are thousands of variations of said sound. In my old flat last year, when someone was moving their bed in the room above me, it sounded exactly like a massive rainstorm was happening outside and hitting my window. It was convincing enough to make me look outside to check. I thought there was no mistaking too.

So yes, it could have been a ghost or a person or something walking around and turning on and off light switches, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it was the only possible cause. The fact that you both heard it alone makes it more dubious, as you could have heard different sounds and interpreted them in the same way.
 
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Rationalt

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awitch post: How do you make the jump from spooky noises to Satanic activity?


Who/what else could it have been? Ever hear footsteps walk across an old wooden floor, or a light switch going on and off? There was no mistaking whatsoever.



Assuming it is satan or a lower demon what you think he is trying to achieve?.
 
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SithDoughnut

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I know what I heard. My wife knew what she heard. It happened several times.

You know what you heard, I believe that. I just wouldn't try to jump to saying that I know what the cause was, if I were you.
 
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Greg1234

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I know exactly what I heard. It was not just one instance..
Yes, the thing is though, the atheist also knows what you heard...but better.

Your analytic skills are good, but you should probably judge it against his instead and commit to the same conclusion he has.
 
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