Who did away with the law?

[VictorC]

The scripture HAS (HATH) concluded ALL UNDER SIN regardless of there being the above EXTERNAL INSTRUMENT to prove the existence of SINNING LAWLESSNESS within.

I know that; that is what Paul concludes in Romans 3:19 and the related context. But this sentence has nothing to do with your contention that the law retains jurisdiction over God's redeemed, and you apparently don't think salvation has been extended to the Gentiles. Your response to your own point that the law retains jurisdiction is impossible to reconcile with your contention that you're going to comply with the law by breaking it.

I'm not buying your story, and you simply aren't responsive to questions and points that are presented to you. Your conclusion is one that I am forced to relegate to meaningless drivel when you refuse to converse.

 

[squint]

Yes where is your proof. I see you mentioned John 1:1. I am asking for proof that indeed Moses spoke to Jesus and that Jesus himself wrote with His own finger the ten commandments in stone. Now show proof. That proof will be found in the Torah or the Pentateuch. If it does not exist there it does not exist.

bugkiller

Sorry bug. Dividing The Word in Flesh from the Word of God does not work. It is a base heresy.

The Word was with God and IS GOD and was so from the beginning.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Frogster]

The scripture HAS (HATH) concluded ALL UNDER SIN regardless of there being the above EXTERNAL INSTRUMENT to prove the existence of SINNING LAWLESSNESS within.

We know that but your fprgetting that a few verses down, it says were are justified by faith, which means we are no longer bound by the imprisoning of the law. It says..BEFORE faith came..


The faith done come.




Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Paul in Romans 7 states by the FACT of the LAW just saying DO NOT DO X that the power of SIN is provoked therein...

I have also already and repeatedly stated that because of that PRESENCE of indwelling sin, of EVIL present that NO PERSON can EVER be lawful when they acknowledge THAT PRESENCE as being WITHIN them simultaneously. Every single jot and tittle COULD be followed and it will avail NOTHING to the working of the power of sin/evil present that is within ALL mankind, period, end of conversation. Every supposed LAW KEEPER in the EXTERNAL FASHION will sooner or later PROVE this existence was IN THEM and LAWLESS REGARDLESS of externalities. The INSIDE of their cup remains FILTHY regardless of exterior showmanship.

Everyone knows about 7:24..yes..the flesh is most wretched!

But we are justifed from the sin, and are now raised with christ, sealed with the spirit, until glorification.

Did you read the rest of de book?

What can seperate from the love, God justified us. It says 3 times in Rom 6, we are freed from sin..justified from it. You need to realize that the eschatology is unfolfing, Paul alreay called us glorified, that is how sure he was using past tense wordage, in Rom 8:30. The idea is to now walk in the Spirit, then we will not be under law.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

And please don't project upon me what I have not said. I have never equated THE LAW to SIN.

Well..it rouses sin..

Indeed. And to this fact the LAW is still WITNESS.

Why be witnessed to about Adam all day long?

The law is rousing Adam, convincing you that you need to see Adam.

You can claim YOU as Gods child are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW. I will say only TWO THINGS. One, that the power of indwelling sin and evil present WITH ALL remains UNDER LAW and CONDEMNED therein. There is no remedy or excuses or performances available for those workings IN ANY.

Show me where the law stops..SIN INDWELLING PRESENT?

Secondly, believers who do LOVE their neighbors, ALL, prove themselves to be GODS CHILDREN and are LAWFUL under every jot and tittle of the LAWS REQUIREMENTS because that is GOD IN THEM doing so.


enjoy!

squint

 

[JohnRabbit]

Yes where is your proof. I see you mentioned John 1:1. I am asking for proof that indeed Moses spoke to Jesus and that Jesus himself wrote with His own finger the ten commandments in stone. Now show proof. That proof will be found in the Torah or the Pentateuch. If it does not exist there it does not exist.

bugkiller

the proof is in the bible:

Exodus 34:5 ( NKJV ) 5Now the Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.

Exodus 40:34 ( NKJV ) 34Then the cloud covered the tabernacle of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Exodus 40:38 ( NKJV ) 38For the cloud of the Lord was above the tabernacle by day, and fire was over it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 ( NKJV ) 1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

yes, with His own finger, that's what i've been trying to tell you.

God wrote the ten commandments Himself.

Exodus 34:1 ( NKJV ) 1And the Lord said to Moses, “Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke.

 

[Frogster]

Sorry bug. Dividing The Word in Flesh from the Word of God does not work. It is a base heresy.

The Word was with God and IS GOD and was so from the beginning.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Spirit wrote the word, ther was not a bible floating about.

 

[Frogster]

And you continue to fail grasping that the power of sin and evil present was NOT Paul. Paul however CARRIED those workings/powers in his flesh including in HIS MIND, and those powers in him SINNED and sinned repeatedly, as did THE DEVIL that he also carried.

Believers CAN be OUT from that working while the powers/entities therein us ALL do remain totally UNDER LAW and condemned therein. The Law in this regard as A CONDEMNER, EXPOSER, EMPOWERER OF SIN AND EVIL is the ALLY of THE REDEEMED of the LORD.

I do not subscribe to the gnostic view that Jesus as THE WORD was not GODS WORD in the Old Testament NOR do I subscribe to the EVIL FLESH/MATTER gnostic position as both are heresy.

enjoy!

s

Not at all...it is just that the law puts you back in time to the old creation order of flesh.

Did Paul say were are new creations or not?

Why does he say past tense.."when we WERE..in the flesh, tha sinful passions areoused by LAW?

 

[squint]

I know that; that is what Paul concludes in Romans 3:19 and the related context. But this sentence has nothing to do with your contention that the law retains jurisdiction over God's redeemed,

Believers who love their neighbors ALL are slaves of God, His Christ and LAW of The Spirit.

and you apparently don't think salvation has been extended to the Gentiles.

I have no idea where you are pulling that from. Seriously. Those words have never crossed my lips on this forum or any other. I cannot read your mind as to how you derived that position coming from me.

Your response to your own point that the law retains jurisdiction is impossible to reconcile with your contention that you're going to comply with the law by breaking it.

The power of sin indwelling ALL and the EVIL PRESENT with ALL will not and can not EVER be legal or lawful, period. Those workings remain revealed, empowered and condemned under LAW and under GRACE. Paul defined the sin indwelling him as NO LONGER I. I do not subscribe to the EVIL PAUL camp. Paul had the PRESENCE of EVIL with him that was NOT HIM. That presence that was NOT HIM as Gods child remained condemned UNDER LAW and UNDER GRACE as well as the DEVIL that was with him. Paul carried in this matter the EXACT TWO VESSELS he wrote of in Romans 9. One of HONOR which was HIM as GODS CHILD and the other THE DEVIL, the EVIL PRESENT, the vessel of DISHONOR in the SAME LUMP.

I'm not buying your story,

And I'm not buying your story of my observations as they are not the same.

and you simply aren't responsive to questions and points that are presented to you. Your conclusion is one that I am forced to relegate to meaningless drivel when you refuse to converse.

Some can't understand no matter what. That is part of the observations put in play here.

Most cannot: READ---> are not allowed to see that SATAN enters the heart where The Word is sown because THAT POWER of SATAN entering them blinds them to the FACT of his entering.

IF God allows you to SEE THIS fact then the LAW AGAINST the LAWLESS becomes vastly more interesting AND you realize that NO CHILD OF GOD is or even can be the LAWLESS ONE.

1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Frogster]

As noted in the verses you provided.. sacrifice and all other offerings for sin.. which He had no pleasure in.. which are in the "first" covenant were taken away so that He can establish the second.. a covenant where Christ is our sacrifice.

Then surely since you admit that priesthood, and sacrfices, which the law were based off, are changed too?

11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

 

[squint]

Not at all...it is just that the law puts you back in time to the old creation order of flesh.

Did Paul say were are new creations or not?

The evil present with Paul and the resulting power of indwelling sin neither evacuated Paul or changed ONE IOTA.

Paul however was NOT them, but GODS CHILD. Get it yet?

Why does he say past tense.."when we WERE..in the flesh, tha sinful passions areoused by LAW?

Those workings did not depart Paul and they were NOT Paul, neither did THEY CHANGE. EVIL residing IN ANY is not justified in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM by Grace or by LAW and ALL carry same working.

s

 

[Frogster]

think about how that sounds.

Exodus 34:1 ( NKJV ) 1And the Lord said to Moses, “Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke.

now, i know you believe that the ten commandments was the old covenant.

so, we are to believe that God wrote something that was always broken and gave it to man, or in other words, God handed man imperfection.

amazing!

Why were ther two sets?

Are you saying that the 10 were not in the book of de law?

 

[Frogster]

The evil present with Paul and the resulting power of indwelling sin neither evacuated Paul or changed ONE IOTA.

Paul however was NOT them, but GODS CHILD. Get it yet?



Those workings did not depart Paul and they were NOT Paul, neither did THEY CHANGE. EVIL residing IN ANY is not justified in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM by Grace or by LAW and ALL carry same working.

s

All your doing is proving the obvious, we are in the middle of two ages, but if you walk in the Spirit, you will not be in de past.

Look...here is an eschatology verse..

21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

we were in Adam..now we are in a new dominion, it is the already, but not yet..

The law connects to Adam. So it seems like you are seeing way too much of Adam, and not looking foward.

 

[squint]

We know that but your fprgetting that a few verses down, it says were are justified by faith, which means we are no longer bound by the imprisoning of the law. It says..BEFORE faith came..

No EVIL PRESENT within any person is JUSTIFIED or HAS FAITH or IS LEGAL. What are you thinking?

The faith done come.

Claim all you want over the presence of EVIL. That power IS what it is and did not change or become a new creation nor did it depart and us become sinless perfection in thought, word and deed.

Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Everyone knows about 7:24..yes..the flesh is most wretched!

Uh, no, the MAN, Paul was wretched because of the occupancy of the power of SIN, EVIL PRESENT and THE DEVIL that he carried. We all carry that working IN us.

But we are justifed from the sin, and are now raised with christ, sealed with the spirit, until glorification.

Did you read the rest of de book?

When you see that YOU as Gods child are NOT the same as those things, those WORKINGS that are NEVER justified, it may dawn on you.

In the meantime if you want to say the SIN in THOUGHT WORD or DEED is justified under GRACE or LAW IN ANY I will remain a valid scorner and skeptic via the Word.

What can seperate from the love, God justified us. It says 3 times in Rom 6, we are freed from sin..justified from it. You need to realize that the eschatology is unfolfing, Paul alreay called us glorified, that is how sure he was using past tense wordage, in Rom 8:30. The idea is to now walk in the Spirit, then we will not be under law.

What applies to Gods children is the OPPOSITE for the DEVIL/EVIL indwelling sin. The same WORD that Justifies Gods children ALSO condemns those workings in ANY.

And of course we cannot say WE HAVE NO SIN and be IN TRUTH.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.Well..it rouses sin..Why be witnessed to about Adam all day long?

Adam schmadum. Adam was Gods son. I have nothing against Adam. Do you?

The law is rousing Adam, convincing you that you need to see Adam.Show me where the law stops..SIN INDWELLING PRESENT?

rousing Adam? lol. The FLESH MAN Adam DIED and his SPIRIT which was FROM GOD returned to GOD as THE LAST FINAL ADAM together with HIS FATHER, GOD, IN HEAVEN.

The carnal man cannot come to grips with these matters. Satan enters where The Word is sown and the PEOPLES HEARTS in whom he enters cannot TELL THE TRUTHFUL FACT of this matter. The truth is they are simply NOT alone in these things.

The SAME WORD of GOD that BLESSES MAN provokes Satan to enter them and STEAL/SIN via THEFT.

s

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why were ther two sets?

Are you saying that the 10 were not in the book of de law?

Ya might try looking at this site. I forgot I had this bookmarked from awhile back

10Com2

Do you recognize these pictures? If you are a member of the vast majority your answer will be -- "The Ten Commandments." It doesn't matter whether they are written or just the shape of the two tablets is seen; two billion people around the world probably instantly recognize them. They have been an important part of both Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism.

 

[VictorC]

Believers who love their neighbors ALL are slaves of God, His Christ and LAW of The Spirit.

The law of the Spirit is not the law mediated by Moses.

I have no idea where you are pulling that from. Seriously. Those words have never crossed my lips on this forum or any other. I cannot read your mind as to how you derived that position coming from me.

It comes from your contention that the law retains jurisdiction, and you never responded to the citation of Ephesians 2:11-16 or Galatians 3:10-14.

The power of sin indwelling ALL and the EVIL PRESENT with ALL will not and can not EVER be legal or lawful, period. Those workings remain revealed, empowered and condemned under LAW and under GRACE. Paul defined the sin indwelling him as NO LONGER I. I do not subscribe to the EVIL PAUL camp. Paul had the PRESENCE of EVIL with him that was NOT HIM. That presence that was NOT HIM as Gods child remained condemned UNDER LAW and UNDER GRACE as well as the DEVIL that was with him. Paul carried in this matter the EXACT TWO VESSELS he wrote of in Romans 9. One of HONOR which was HIM as GODS CHILD and the other THE DEVIL, the EVIL PRESENT, the vessel of DISHONOR in the SAME LUMP.

This is meaningless drivel that doesn't address anything in particular, and you haven't responded to your concession (by ignoring the point over and over) that you're going to comply with the law by breaking it.

And I'm not buying your story of my observations as they are not the same.

When you refuse to either acknowledge or deny an observation that is made, the default is acceptance that you have no contention to the observation that was made.

Some can't understand no matter what. That is part of the observations put in play here.

Most cannot: READ---> are not allowed to see that SATAN enters the heart where The Word is sown because THAT POWER of SATAN entering them blinds them to the FACT of his entering.

IF God allows you to SEE THIS fact then the LAW AGAINST the LAWLESS becomes vastly more interesting AND you realize that NO CHILD OF GOD is or even can be the LAWLESS ONE.

1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

enjoy!

squint

Now the burden resides with you to show how anyone has advocated sin. That has not been the case with my posts.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Why were ther two sets?

Are you saying that the 10 were not in the book of de law?

there were two sets because moses broke the first set.

so, God rewrote the ten commandments for them.

also of note, in both instances, God wrote the commandments Himself.

and yes, i'm saying that the ten were not part of the book of the law.

 

[visionary]

Ya might try looking at this site. I forgot I had this bookmarked from awhile back

10Com2

Do you recognize these pictures? If you are a member of the vast majority your answer will be -- "The Ten Commandments." It doesn't matter whether they are written or just the shape of the two tablets is seen; two billion people around the world probably instantly recognize them. They have been an important part of both Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism.

It was interesting in that website that a verse was pointed out... probably should go into one of the other threads but I wanted you to know I read the website's info and found this tidbit stand out..

And they saw the elohiym of Israel; and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and as it were the very heaven for clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: and they beheld the elohiym, and did eat and drink. Exodus 24:10-11

 

[squint]

The law of the Spirit is not the law mediated by Moses.

Moses and many a prophet spoke Gods Own Words. I do not relegate those words to the man in whom they came.

It comes from your contention that the law retains jurisdiction, and you never responded to the citation of Ephesians 2:11-16 or Galatians 3:10-14.

The Law retains jurisdication in the revealing, arousing and condemnation of THE LAWLESS for whom it was intended to be against. In that same LAW is the Spirit of LOVE. The LAW is simultaneously FOR LOVE and AGAINST lawlessness.

This is meaningless drivel that doesn't address anything in particular, and you haven't responded to your concession (by ignoring the point over and over) that you're going to comply with the law by breaking it.

I do not say that the power of sin or evil present IN ANY including MYSELF is LEGAL or LAW ABIDING, nor CAN it be. Love however DOES comply with EVERY jot and tittle of THE LAW as stipulated in Romans 13:8-10.

The power of SIN and EVIL PRESENT cannot do that OR be LAWful in any way, shape or form. IF you insist that the LAW is and only consists of EXTERNAL FLESHLY ORDINANCE MATTERS that would be false presentation of LAW:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

For the record I would not have any problem with ANYONE following the O.T. Laws as they see fit with the realization of the fact that the power of sin and evil present are not LAWFUL in them while so following. Paul exhibited this exact fact many times by participation in various legal matters, rituals etc etc.

When you refuse to either acknowledge or deny an observation that is made, the default is acceptance that you have no contention to the observation that was made.

My observations have been made. No man is justified under the LAW because of what they carry in their flesh/mind, that being the power of SIN and EVIL PRESENT. Those things REMAIN condemned under LAW, condemned apart from LAW, condemned under GRACE, condemned apart from GRACE.

Now the burden resides with you to show how anyone has advocated sin. That has not been the case with my posts.

Never said you did that I recall. I certainly might have said that MANY have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that SATAN enters where THE WORD is sown (in man) and THAT ENTITY is and remains TOTALLY LAWLESS and utterly corrupt. I have no issues understanding this fact in the light of the disclosures of scripture.

The entry of SATAN is a scriptural fact and that fact goes a long way in helping understand these matters of LAW and of LOVE or the lack thereof AND inability OF man to 'be legal' regardless WHEN that entity is PRESENT with them.

enjoy!

squint

 

[JohnRabbit]

here bugkiller,

i found some more verses for you. hope they help you out.

Exodus 3:13-14 ( NKJV ) 13Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to
them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say
to them?”
14And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM
has sent me to you.’”

John 8:52-59 ( NKJV ) 52Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and
the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53Are You greater than our
father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that
He is your God. 55Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be
a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he
saw it and was glad.”
57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through
the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[Frogster]

there were two sets because moses broke the first set.

so, God rewrote the ten commandments for them.

also of note, in both instances, God wrote the commandments Himself.

and yes, i'm saying that the ten were not part of the book of the law.

A major thing proves you wrong wabbit.

Jesus took the curse of the law to the tree. Gal 3:13. Do you think he redeemed all from just ceremonial or civil laws, and their curses?

Are you saying we were not redeemed from the curse of just some of the laws?

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

Seen here,,COMMANDMENTS..and STATUES...otherwise curses. Both...

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.


Cant be just some bro....


Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—

Unless you can tell me how we were redeemed from the 10 if they were not written on the book of de cov?

 

[Frogster]

No EVIL PRESENT within any person is JUSTIFIED or HAS FAITH or IS LEGAL. What are you thinking?



Claim all you want over the presence of EVIL. That power IS what it is and did not change or become a new creation nor did it depart and us become sinless perfection in thought, word and deed.



Uh, no, the MAN, Paul was wretched because of the occupancy of the power of SIN, EVIL PRESENT and THE DEVIL that he carried. We all carry that working IN us.


When you see that YOU as Gods child are NOT the same as those things, those WORKINGS that are NEVER justified, it may dawn on you.

In the meantime if you want to say the SIN in THOUGHT WORD or DEED is justified under GRACE or LAW IN ANY I will remain a valid scorner and skeptic via the Word.



What applies to Gods children is the OPPOSITE for the DEVIL/EVIL indwelling sin. The same WORD that Justifies Gods children ALSO condemns those workings in ANY.

And of course we cannot say WE HAVE NO SIN and be IN TRUTH.


Adam schmadum. Adam was Gods son. I have nothing against Adam. Do you?



rousing Adam? lol. The FLESH MAN Adam DIED and his SPIRIT which was FROM GOD returned to GOD as THE LAST FINAL ADAM together with HIS FATHER, GOD, IN HEAVEN.

The carnal man cannot come to grips with these matters. Satan enters where The Word is sown and the PEOPLES HEARTS in whom he enters cannot TELL THE TRUTHFUL FACT of this matter. The truth is they are simply NOT alone in these things.

The SAME WORD of GOD that BLESSES MAN provokes Satan to enter them and STEAL/SIN via THEFT.

s

No no no..your posting the same thing again, with all due respect, what your saying to do, is to be like a guy driving, only looking in the rear view mirror..bad instructions.


Again..yes, there is the flesh, but God took it to the cross, now we await our new bodies.


24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

There is a solution.