Who did away with the law?

[hamashiachagape]

I am not following this. So why would God make a covenant that they could not keep? Why would he make something that was broken all the time? and why did you quote of Lev 26:15?

Great question. Because of our unchangingingly changing hellenized way of our God, anything can happen, and usually does. Including the most brilliant wisdom of our God being applied in an errant manner, but done so in an inerrant way.

 

[Deut 5:29]

scriptural proof,please.

bugkiller

You have to be kidding!
I haven given you scripural proof over and over in the past and you reject it.
You will have it your way or no way.

 

[Frogster]

Leviticus 26 is some harsh reality.




Wow!

But is the punishment any less for those that sin against the Holy Spirit, thus breaking God's Law?

Hell is the harshest punishment.

Wow! was I incorrect in my post?

Did they not break the cov?

Are we bound by the old cov?

Is it a sin to break any of the 613 laws?

 

[Frogster]

I am not following this. So why would God make a covenant that they could not keep? Why would he make something that was broken all the time? and why did you quote of Lev 26:15?

God found fault with the people. You don't think he knew theyt would break it?

Why was the law added?

20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

 

[hamashiachagape]

God found fault with the people. You don't think he knew theyt would break it?

Why was the law added?

20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Yeah, cherry picking scripture fixes everything. Read Romans 7:7 " 7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet.
And Romans 7:12 states "12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good."

Context is key to understanding.

 

[Frogster]

1 Corinthians 7:19

That verse out of the marriage chapter is what scholars call an indicative, not an imperative.

Would Paul contradict Paul, and go against his whole theology?

Is the marriage chapter about justification?..A teaching about it?

I might say.."those good people over there are going to heaven"..

But are they going to heaven cause they are good, or because God is good?

 

[Frogster]

That is some type of friends you have there..

Yea..I lost a dear friend who picked up sticks..

A Sabbathbreaker Executed
32 While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Wow! was I incorrect in my post?

Did they not break the cov?

Are we bound by the old cov?

Is it a sin to break any of the 613 laws?

Jesus said that the 10 commandments still stand.

 

[Frogster]

Yeah, cherry picking scripture fixes everything. Read Romans 7:7 " 7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet.
And Romans 7:12 states "12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good."

Context is key to understanding.

lol! you prove my point..look at what aroused sin.


5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

Why does it say the POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW?..WHY?


56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

I have posted these types of verses countless times, but they get ignored..WHY?

 

[hamashiachagape]

This verse shows part of the Torah's purpose to reveal sin. (To the Jew first, to whom Torah was given, however, not only for their sake, but also for the sake of the gentile world, as the Jews were to be a light unto the world with this knowledge - i.e., Matthew 5:13-16).
The Torah makes man more "aware" that he is sinning (i.e., "that offence might abound"), as he is now violating "known and definable" commands from God. It is important to understand that God gave His Torah because of His mercy as an instrument to salvation (with faith/trust being the first of the commandments).
(One of the difficulties with Christianity is that it does not present a definition of sin. References are made to "disobeying God," or "going against the will of God," but what that means is very much left up to people to decide. Christianity's various denominations pick and choose what commandments from the "Old Testament" they believer are "applicable" (to their particular doctrines), while they all maintain the teaching that believers are "not under the law.")
The Torah, by revealing sin as such, is not "part of the problem," but rather, is "part of the cure." The Torah also "stirs up" sin in man, as by "laying down the law," many, who see themselves as above God, will respond indignantly, with deliberate violation.
Compare this to the parable in Mark 12:1-9, and how the tenants of the land respond to the owner's gestures. The more they are made aware of their improper behavior, the angrier they get:

Mark 12:1-9 - And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be our's. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard
unto others.
​

Paul explains the "dual role" of the Torah in God’s purpose. To make known the full magnitude of sin (so that man could see it for what it was), and to act as an instrument of God’s mercy and grace (the law is holy, just and good - Romans 7:12), in that it leads men to God.
This "duality" is in accordance to what God said when He gave the Torah:

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 - Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

See here - Romans 5:1-5:21
​

 

[visionary]

Yea..I lost a dear friend who picked up sticks..

A Sabbathbreaker Executed
32 While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.

Where do you live?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

That verse out of the marriage chapter is what scholars call an indicative, not an imperative.

Would Paul contradict Paul, and go against his whole theology?

Is the marriage chapter about justification?..A teaching about it?

I might say.."those good people over there are going to heaven"..

But are they going to heaven cause they are good, or because God is good?

The big question is whether Paul would contradict Jesus.

Jesus said to keep the commandments.

So Paul neither contradicts himself or Jesus. This is one great example of why Christians must use all Apostolic Tradition because without it they have contradictions. But Tradition teaches us that Jesus did not do away with the Law but instead brought Grace and Truth to it.

The Laws must not only be in our minds but written on our hearts. Because without Love they mean nothing. It is in this way that Jesus live sin us and we follow Jesus. Law with Love.

For Man was not created for the Law but the Law was created for Man.

 

[Frogster]

Jesus said that the 10 commandments still stand.

We are not under law, besides the law was one, no picken-choosin. You can't uphold just some..

That is not how the mosaic sustem worked.



James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


Romans 2:25
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Galatians 5:3
Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

 

[hamashiachagape]

lol! you prove my point..look at what aroused sin.


5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

Why does it say the POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW?..WHY?


56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

I have posted these types of verses countless times, but they get ignored..WHY?

Your name is quite fitting. You're jumping all over the place.

Thanks for speaking for Paul, but you're obviously missing that what Paul is stating is that the Torah made him realize what sin actually was so that he would not commit it.

The Torah is not sin, nor oriented around sin. Thats where you're getting mixed up. It was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai in its written form from God to man. Thus, it is a gift from God.

Also, if sin is that which takes us into captivity as is also written by Paul, then why does James contradict him in 2:12? 12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,

 

[hamashiachagape]

The big question is whether Paul would contradict Jesus.

Jesus said to keep the commandments.

So Paul neither contradicts himself or Jesus. This is one great example of why Christians must use all Apostolic Tradition because without it they have contradictions. But Tradition teaches us that Jesus did not do away with the Law but instead brought Grace and Truth to it.

The Laws must not only be in our minds but written on our hearts. Because without Love they mean nothing. It is in this way that Jesus live sin us and we follow Jesus. Law with Love.

For Man was not created for the Law but the Law was created for Man.

Hmm, I'm doing just fine without the Apostolic tradition.

With the exception of the last line, you do make some good points though.

Also grace and mercy existed in the Tanakh.

 

[Frogster]

Where do you live?

With my wife.

 

[Frogster]

The big question is whether Paul would contradict Jesus.

Jesus said to keep the commandments.

So Paul neither contradicts himself or Jesus. This is one great example of why Christians must use all Apostolic Tradition because without it they have contradictions. But Tradition teaches us that Jesus did not do away with the Law but instead brought Grace and Truth to it.

The Laws must not only be in our minds but written on our hearts. Because without Love they mean nothing. It is in this way that Jesus live sin us and we follow Jesus. Law with Love.

For Man was not created for the Law but the Law was created for Man.

You have to go by salvation history..

Since jesus took the whole law to the cross,Gal 3:13..

Why would we do this? Why reinstate a system that went to the tree? The law..


18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

By the way, you skirted the cov question.

Are we bound to the whole mosaic system or not?

 

[hamashiachagape]

You have to go by salvation history..

Since jesus took the whole law to the cross,Gal 3:13..

Why would we do this? Why reinstate a system that went to the tree? The law..


18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

By the way, you skirted the cov question.

Are we bound to the whole mosaic system or not?

Matthew 5:17-20.

Since you like to cherry pick, you won't mind if I just take from 5:19 (though in this case it is in context) "19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

So thanks Frogster...thanks to you, Paul just contradicted Yeshua in Galatians 3:13 and 3:18. (By the way, I sat down and had a conversation about Galatians 3 with my rabbi in some of its part. What I have discovered is that the only thing that changes is the role of the Torah, not the following of the Torah.)

 

[visionary]

With my wife.

So who is this friend who got killed for picking up sticks?

 

[hamashiachagape]

We are not under law, besides the law was one, no picken-choosin. You can't uphold just some..

That is not how the mosaic sustem worked.



James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


Romans 2:25
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Galatians 5:3
Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Frogster, you make good points here.

But also keep in mind, God's yoke is easy. See Deuteronomy 30:11-14 " 11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it."