Is SOLO Scriptura Scriptural?

[Standing Up]

You make it sounds like a documentary. Unless I'm missing Paul wasn't there for any of it, yet he speaks with authority on the Last Supper...a product of the liturgical tradition in Antioch...and btw was written before the gospel accounts. Shall we then conclude that all of Paul's writings are the result of tradition? If he had written something that contradicted tradtion, would it have been accepted. Like your example of the gospel of Thomas - rejected because it did not agree with tradition.

Folks, let me make clear again that I haven't a problem with tradition. We may use tradition to help define what is scriptural/Godly and what is of man.

I keep using this (see the whole context for clarity)-

Deu. 30:4 But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Rom. 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

to show that these men first hoped to go into the "promised land" (correspondes to Christ's second coming), but when told that they weren't, they wrote it down to replace themselves because they knew about us (subsequent generations). Who will reach to heaven to bring Jesus down? IOW I claim to have had a vision of Jesus and he said, XYZ. Follow me. History shows us this happening. In fact, the very early church would counter this, using the fact of a disconnect to PROVE something wasn't apostolic and shouldn't be entertained. For example, praying to deceased saints is clearly after the fact. Papal infallibility was just a few years ago; the very early church would immediately dismiss that.

Hope that helps.

 

[Montalban]

You know exactly what I said Montalban and I clarified it speaking of it as how His words are treated like.

I will not answer you again, goodbye Montalban

Please don't go. I simply wanted to know what context was for posting a swathe of Bible verses

 

[Standing Up]

Standing Up, you've also not answered about Luke being a 'witness'

Where is it recorded that he saw the birth of Jesus?

Eyewitnesses of the death, burial, and resurrection. I doubt Peter, Andrew, James, and the others were there for the birth either

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Eyewitnesses of the death, burial, and resurrection. I doubt Peter, Andrew, James, and the others were there for the birth either

Here's a tradition: As a devout Jew, Paul was present in Jerusalem at Passover when Jesus Christ was crucified and buried. Here's scripture: resurrected Jesus Christ appeared to Paul.

Is that a Jewish or Christian tradition?

Mark 7:8 Leaving the command of the God ,ye are holding the tradition/paradosin <3862> of the men.......

Titus 1:14 No heeding to Jewish fables/myths and commandments of men, ones turning from the Truth

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages....

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/lb/LB1.htm

*SNIP*

..........According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term &#8211; THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).
The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.

 

[Standing Up]

Where does it say what they wrote down is in one particular book, as opposed to another? That was my question to you, which you didn't answer in your previous three posts

Let me try one more time.

In the beginning of His ministry, Jesus called the apostles. At His death and burial, they fell away. After His resurrection, over the next 40 days, He appeared to them and explained again all of the OT law and prophets as it pointed to Him as the fulfillment.

The apostles are empowered and sent forth. Jesus appears to Paul and he likewise. Perhaps none or very little of the NT is written at this point, only OT.

Now what? Have they expected Christ to return? There's the end of John, Thessalonica, and Peter's day=1000 years to suggest originally they did think they'd live to see His return, but eventually came to realize something different. They would pass away first. So they began to write it down and would reference previous verbal communication. Further, they instructed the church to pass around the epistles.

Okay so far?

Presumably as the apostles wrote things and passed it around, so did imposters. Sheep attract wolves. Tares and wheat grow together. How to tell the true from the false? You want to know. Our brothers and sisters of old wanted to know too. Here's Paul's answer:

2 Thes. 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

The Thessalonians had received a letter claiming authorship to be from Paul. Paul, however, dismisses it as false and reminds them of his authentication of every one of his epistles.

That is how they knew.

Now, do we have those original letters? No. But they did. I know you trust those first elders as faithful men to preserve those things.

 

[Standing Up]

Is that a Jewish or Christian tradition?

Mark 7:8 Leaving the command of the God ,ye are holding the tradition/paradosin <3862> of the men.......

Titus 1:14 No heeding to Jewish fables/myths and commandments of men, ones turning from the Truth.

Yes, you're right. I deleted it, for Paul says himself in scripture,

1 Cor. 11:23 (YNG) For I -- I received from the Lord that which also I did deliver to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was delivered up, took bread,

 

[MamaZ]

Given that he's going to Jerusalem to pray and he's reading the scriptures, then I would guess that he's Jewish. However regardless of what he's a believer in, the interesting thing is that the scriptures he's reading which he can't quite follow are explained to him by a Christian.

The scripture he's reading aren't Christian, but can only be really understood in the light of Christianity - given that the OT is all leading up to the Messiah!

I don't know if he was Jewish because the scriptures tell us he was Ethiopian. All scripture are Christian. You may have to explain what you mean by that. Philip Preached Jesus. To be a believer one must be in Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

It's exactly like Jesus talking about 'love thy neighbour'. He does indeed use scripture, but he says "You may have heard this, but I say that..." and he contrasts his lesson with what's in the scriptures. The lesson of Jesus was different, more exactly broader in terms of 'neighbour' than that in the scriptures

Actually it was the tradition that had steered them away from the scripture if you will read deeply into the scripture. This is why Jesus takes us back to It is written.

Scripture alone was not sufficient. If it was, Jesus' lesson would have been redundant

Sure it was. For Jesus says you err not knowing scripture.

This is not to say that scriptures aren't used. Nor does it mean that Jesus contradicts scriptures. However it goes to understanding the Bereans incident. They too could read scripture, but Paul's lesson to them is not strictly speaking found in scripture, because the Jews are still waiting for the Messiah, however Paul could point out that Jesus is the Messiah as spoken of in scriptures. Scriptures would have been one tool Paul used. Not the only one, because Christianity teaches the fulfillment of the OT.

Well actually it is. The NT is the OT revealed.

 

[MamaZ]

The canon of the Old Testament wasn’t established until a Christian council was established. The Jewish canon was finalized after the Resurrection of Christ. The words Old Testament is inherently defined by a council whether Jewish or Christian.

The only reason why we understand the fulfillment of the OT is because of the context a.k.a tradition it was taught in. The reason why I say this is because there were Jews who read the Scriptures and were able to identify Christ and there were Jews who read Scripture and thought of Him as a blasphemer. Both groups read the same book but the correct tradition is what helped them identify it.

Montablan is under the correct assumption that God works outside of Scripture as well and that God is not limited to it.

The correct chronology is this, first God exists, then man exists, then Scripture exists.

The OT cannon of scripture was not cannonized by Christians but by the Jews.. God will not go in contrast to His written word. For His written word we can eat and live by on a daily basis..

 

[Fireinfolding]

Eyewitnesses of the death, burial, and resurrection. I doubt Peter, Andrew, James, and the others were there for the birth either

And Jesus speaks of them (all men disciples) as a woman in travail to be delivered of a child (under the law) as Mary (The woman) can be seen as a similtitude in them (Christ in them) after a spiritual (rather then carnal truth)

As they give birth they do it AGAIN

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth **AGAIN** until Christ be formed in you,

 

[MamaZ]

Standing Up, you've also not answered about Luke being a 'witness'

Where is it recorded that he saw the birth of Jesus?

Luke witnessed Jesus. He witnessed the miracles . He witnessed the hatred towards Jesus. He knew Jesus was born from a woman according to the law. He was an eye witness to Jesus. Paul stood and held the cloak when Steven was stoned.. You do not think Paul witness any of these things?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The OT cannon of scripture was not cannonized by Christians but by the Jews.. God will not go in contrast to His written word. For His written word we can eat and live by on a daily basis..

Too bad the Jews also didn't canonize the NT, since Jesus is the fulfillment of all their OT Prophecies

Young) Luke 24:44 and He said to them, "These [are] the words that I spake unto you, being yet with you, that it behoveth to be fulfilled all the things that are written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms, about Me.'

 

[Fireinfolding]

Too bad the Jews also didn't canonize the NT, since Jesus is the fulfillment of all their OT Prophecies

Young) Luke 24:44 and He said to them, "These [are] the words that I spake unto you, being yet with you, that it behoveth to be fulfilled all the things that are written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms, about Me.'

Amen! And its awesome to search into those things and discover how God concealed a thing too

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Shhhhhhh! And Tell no man THE VISION TILL the Son of man be risen from THE DEAD

And when they looked up the law/ Moses and the prophets/ Elijah vanished (which spake of HIS DECEASE) and they saw no man save Jesus only

Rom 1:4 And ((((declared to be)))) the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, (((by))) the resurrection from the dead:

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
Amen! And its awesome to search into those things and discover how God concealed a thing too

Rom 1:4 And ((((declared to be)))) the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, (((by))) the resurrection from the dead:

I especially love Reve 2:18 where Jesus actually proclaims Himself as "Son of God"

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matthew 17:5 Still of-Him speaking, behold! a cloud, luminous, over-shadows them. And behold! a Voice out of the cloud saying "this is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!".
[Deut 18/Acts 3:22/Reve 2:18]

Revelation 2:18 And to the Messenger of the Out-called in Thyatira, write thou! Now this is saying the Son of the God, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev46.htm

*snip*

The church in Thyatira has a longer message delivered to it from Jesus Christ than any of the seven churches............

 

[Fireinfolding]

I especially love Reve 2:18 where Jesus actually proclaims Himself as "Son of God"

Matthew 17:5 Still of-Him speaking, behold! a cloud, luminous, over-shadows them. And behold! a Voice out of the cloud saying "this is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!".
[Deut 18/Acts 3:22/Reve 2:18]

Revelation 2:18 And to the Messenger of the Out-called in Thyatira, write thou! Now this is saying the Son of the God, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass.

Amen!! They knew it beforehand, just no tell no man the vision TILL he was raised from the dead

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of **the dead**, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,


His words are just TOO KOOL!

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Isaiah 29:11 And ***the vision of all*** is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Ezek 12:22Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth?

Ezek 12:23 Tell them therefore, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will make this proverb to cease, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel; but say unto them, The days are at hand, and the effect of every vision.

Mat 17:9 Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures


Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God **without** the law is **manifested**, being witnessed by **the law** and **the prophets**

They looked up and Moses and Elijah (the law and the prophets) which spake beforehand of the sufferings of Christ (vanished) and they just saw Jesus (Of whom they bear a witness)... "witnessed by the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah)...

Shhhhh tell no man the vision TILL the Son of man is raised from the dead

He so ROCKS!! Our God is awesome!!!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*

Shhhhh tell no man the vision TILL the Son of man is raised from the dead

He so ROCKS!! Our God is awesome!!!

My lips are "sealed"

Daniel 12:4 And thou Daniye'l, stop-up! the words, and seal! the Scroll till time of end. They shall go to and fro, many ones, and The Knowledge/01847 da`ath shall abound.

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time nigh/egguV <1451> is"
[Revelation 1:3]

Reve 8:1 And when it opens the Seal, the Seventh, became a Hush/sigh <4602> in the heaven as half-hour
[Zech 2:13/Zeph 1:7]

 

[Fireinfolding]

My lips are "sealed"

Daniel 12:4 And thou Daniye'l, stop-up! the words, and seal! the Scroll till time of end. They shall go to and fro, many ones, and The Knowledge/01847 da`ath shall abound.

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is"
[Revelation 1:3]

Reve 8:1 And when it opens the Seal, the Seventh, became a Hush/sigh <4602> in the heaven as half-hour
[Zech 2:13/Zeph 1:7]

Only you

Rev 19:10.... for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[Kristos]

do all these different colors and underlining mean something? I can't seem to process it, so I tend to just skip your posts...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

do all these different colors and underlining mean something? I can't seem to process it, so I tend to just skip your posts...

You should see what my translation of Daniel Chapt 11 looks like [had to use 4 different colors with it]
Spent almost 5 months translating that book when I saw this site "blaspheming" the Prophet Daniel

False prophets in Daniel in the Bible. Revived Roman Empire, Beast of the Apocalypse of Mark, and Antiochus the Selucid Greek
False prophecy in Daniel

 

[Magentic]

do all these different colors and underlining mean something? I can't seem to process it, so I tend to just skip your posts...

your loss, some of them are actually getting interseting