Early Church

[Brennin]

Icons are not heresy, but nice try at slipping that one in there.

Oh, but they are. See "graven images, proscriptions against." Mariology is also heresy.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Oh, but they are. See "graven images, proscriptions against." Mariology is also heresy.

God Himself seems to be disobeying His own commandments at times if we operate under your definition -- Numbers 21:8-9.

Also, the idea that the greatest of God's saints is dead and doesn't pray for us is heresy. I don't know what Gospel people are preaching when they turn around and declare their Christian brothers and sisters to be "dead."

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Oh, but they are. See "graven images, proscriptions against." Mariology is also heresy.

lol,, I guess Moses was committing heresy by making the serpent. Or the jews for making the cherubim and the ark..

Technically by definition, heresy is when someone deviates or perverts the dogmas and doctrines of the Catholic faith. For instance, St Augustine would probably refer to you as a Antidicomarite based on your comment on Mary..

Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary, and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband. (St. Augustine)

 

[Musa80]

Oh, but they are. See "graven images, proscriptions against." Mariology is also heresy.

An excellent demonstration of the heresy I was referring to earlier in this thread as not funny any longer. Just sad and disturbing.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

lol,, I guess Moses was committing heresy by making the serpent.

Oh snap, you didn't reference book, chapter and verse. Unlike somebody else who got to it first!

 

[Brennin]

lol,, I guess Moses was committing heresy by making the serpent. Or the jews for making the cherubim and the ark..

Please. Neither of those equates to iconodulia. In fact, the Nehustan was destroyed because your 7th century BC equivalents were "venerating" it.

Technically by definition, heresy is when someone deviates or perverts the dogmas and doctrines of the Catholic faith. For instance, St Augustine would probably refer to you as a Antidicomarite based on your comment on Mary..

Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary, and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband. (St. Augustine)

I don't care. Augustine engaged in heresy when he deviated from Scripture and the Early Church.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Oh snap, you didn't reference book, chapter and verse. Unlike somebody else who got to it first!

It seems some people have trouble differentiating old wineskins from the new. Claiming that the new wineskin are the old.

Graven images are Pagan Statues. People who offered sacrifices to them of food and even adults and children. Zeus, Baal, Apollo, Jupiter, etc would be what the bible calls graven images.

But to call icons of Christ and the cross Satanic is almost akin to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit..

 

[SeraphimSarov]

But to call icons of Christ and the cross Satanic is almost akin to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit..

Almost?

'Tis.

 

[Brennin]

God Himself seems to be disobeying His own commandments at times if we operate under your definition -- Numbers 21:8-9.

I addressed this in another post.

Also, the idea that the greatest of God's saints is dead and doesn't pray for us is heresy. I don't know what Gospel people are preaching when they turn around and declare their Christian brothers and sisters to be "dead."

Mark 3
31 Then his mother and his brothers came; and standing outside, they sent to him and called him. 32A crowd was sitting around him; and they said to him, ‘Your mother and your brothers and sisters* are outside, asking for you.’ 33And he replied, ‘Who are my mother and my brothers?’ 34And looking at those who sat around him, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother.’

Luke 11
27 While he was saying this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, ‘Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts that nursed you!’ 28But he said, ‘Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it!’

There is what the Lord says, and there is what you say. I'll stick with what the Lord says.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

There is what the Lord says, and there is what you say. I'll stick with what the Lord says.

Non sequitur. You didn't address what I said, at all.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Please. Neither of those equates to iconodulia. In fact, the Nehustan was destroyed because your 7th century BC equivalents were "venerating" it.



I don't care. Augustine engaged in heresy when he deviated from Scripture and the Early Church.

mmhmm. And because you say that, then it is so! lol

scripture? you mean the canon that he helped put together in the NT in the Synod of Hippo and Carthage that you today read?? Too bad all those Mary venerating, 'idol worshipping' heretic priests and bishops had such a large say in what you consider scripture ...

 

[Thekla]

(Watch out for the verse in Luke 11; rather is polite English for "of course", and menounge is an affirmative when translated elsewhere in the NT as well as in secular Hellenistic Greek usage.)

 

[Brennin]

You didn't address what I said, at all.

Yes I did. People were not meant to "venerate" the objects you mentioned. When they "venerated" one it was destroyed. And Jesus Christ does not single out his mother for special "veneration." In fact, he does not encourage "veneration" of her at all.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Yes I did. People were not meant to "venerate" the objects you mentioned. When they "venerated" one it was destroyed. And Jesus Christ does not single out his mother for special "veneration." In fact, he does not encourage "veneration" of her at all.

they didn't venerate it, they sacrificed to it. Difference.

There is what the Lord says, and there is what you say. I'll stick with what the Lord says.

ok then. What does the Lord say is inspired scripture and whats not inspired? What does the Lord say about which books should be included in scripture. Where is the canon list?

Canon list please

 

[Brennin]

mmhmm. And because you say that, then it is so! lol

scripture? you mean the canon that he helped put together in the NT in the Synod of Hippo and Carthage that you today read?? Too bad all those Mary venerating, 'idol worshipping' heretic priests and bishops had such a large say in what you consider scripture ...

I am so tired of this toothless argument from adherents of the Roman Church. The various books of the Bible were considered inspired and authoritative long before your councils. Besides which, what makes you think I agree with your church's canon in all respects? (I do not, for example, believe 2 Peter was written by Peter.)

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Yes I did. People were not meant to "venerate" the objects you mentioned. When they "venerated" one it was destroyed. And Jesus Christ does not single out his mother for special "veneration." In fact, he does not encourage "veneration" of her at all.

Did I say anything about veneration? You're completely off-topic. What I said was this:

Also, the idea that the greatest of God's saints is dead and doesn't pray for us is heresy. I don't know what Gospel people are preaching when they turn around and declare their Christian brothers and sisters to be "dead."

 

[Thekla]

"The righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance ..." Psalm 112

"The horn of the righteous man shall be exalted .." Psalm 74, LXX

"Wondrous is God in His saints ..." Psalm 67 LXX

"And all the upright in heart shall be praised ... " Psalm 63 LXX

 

[Musa80]

I am so tired of this toothless argument from adherents of the Roman Church. The various books of the Bible were considered inspired and authoritative long before your councils. Besides which, what makes you think I agree with your church's canon in all respects? (I do not, for example, believe 2 Peter was written by Peter.)

Not any more tired I'm sure, than the rest of us are of having heresy passed off as the standard and told basic Christian practices are anti-Christian, heads is tails, up is down, and the real Santa Claus is not Saint Nicholas.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

I am so tired of this toothless argument from adherents of the Roman Church. The various books of the Bible were considered inspired and authoritative long before your councils. Besides which, what makes you think I agree with your church's canon in all respects? (I do not, for example, believe 2 Peter was written by Peter.)

the didache was considered inspired too for a long time in the early Church. So why don't you include the didache? or the Shepard of hermas??

You realize many of the early Christians did not even know how to read, and there were not printing presses. Paper was harder to come by. And many Christians, and even early fathers quoted from books they thought might be inspired that aren't in our bibles right now. So no, it wasn't as directly straight cut as you think..The book of Hebrews and the Revelation of John almost did not make it into the bible..

By what authority do you not consider 2 Peter to be inspired??

 

[Montalban]

I am so tired of this toothless argument from adherents of the Roman Church.

Your own words are biased. I'm Orthodox. I maintain that my church authorised the Bible. Your bias is western-centred.

The various books of the Bible were considered inspired and authoritative long before your councils. Besides which, what makes you think I agree with your church's canon in all respects? (I do not, for example, believe 2 Peter was written by Peter.)

Considered inspired by whom? And how?