Why Does Religion=Morality?

[Steezie]

I'm curious why people seem to feel that religion is necessary for a basic sense of morality. That somehow, if there's no religion, there's no morality.

Why cant we have morality WITHOUT religion?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

I'm curious why people seem to feel that religion is necessary for a basic sense of morality. That somehow, if there's no religion, there's no morality.

Why cant we have morality WITHOUT religion?

Because God is the vreator of everything it also mean he is the creator of law and morality. Without existence morality would not exist in the first place.

You will find that most law does stem from the 10 commandments in most of the world. Stealing, murder, adultery, etc.

There are 2 types of law, ritual law(most of levitical code) and moral law(10 commandments and downward). The 613 mitzvot is a mixture of both moral, ethic and ritual law.

 

[Steezie]

Because God is the vreator of everything it also mean he is the creator of law and morality. Without existence morality would not exist in the first place.

That makes no sense. Existence is not contingent on morality.

You will find that most law does stem from the 10 commandments in most of the world. Stealing, murder, adultery, etc.

There are 2 types of law, ritual law(most of levitical code) and moral law(10 commandments and downward). The 613 mitzvot is a mixture of both moral, ethic and ritual law.

The 10 Commandments are social laws that we see in law codes that pre-date the bible such as the Code of Hammurabi and the laws of Ancient Egypt, Greece, and Rome.

All of these societies have basic social rules that the 10 Commandments copy. There's nothing special or unique about the 10 Commandments

Arguably, there is a sort of social natural selection going on because the formula we now accept as "standard" is the best formula for a stable society. Societies that die off are ones that may have different ideas about a basic structure of social rules that perhaps are not conducive to an enduring society. Case in point, the people of Easter Island. Socially, the desire to build large monuments exceeded the need to conserve natural resources necessary to sustain their population and thus their society died out.

 

[Wedjat]

The ten commandments aren't moral law, nor are they the basis for global common law.
If those are the top ten things God could think of as the most good and moral rules to structure your life by, then I'm afraid he lacks a great degree of creativity. Half of them are devoted to worshiping him, the other half are common sense things that cultures (which had absolutely no connection whatsoever to the Israelites) came up with on their own, no God required.
And although you may legitimately say that morality would not even exist without God (assuming of course that God created everything) people hardly require religion to implement said morality. By that logic, God created chemistry too, but you don't need to go to church in order to create H2SO4.

Also, this thread is relevant to my interests, as I would also like to know a good reason for this mindset.

 

[InkBlott]

I'm curious why people seem to feel that religion is necessary for a basic sense of morality. That somehow, if there's no religion, there's no morality.

Why cant we have morality WITHOUT religion?

Perhaps it is the other way around. Perhaps a religion needs to co-opt morality as part of its basic framework in order to survive.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Perhaps it is the other way around. Perhaps a religion needs to co-opt morality as part of its basic framework in order to survive.

Or even that religion is the co-opting of morality--the easiest and hence most common method of codifying of morality.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Because God is the vreator of everything it also mean he is the creator of law and morality. Without existence morality would not exist in the first place.

You will find that most law does stem from the 10 commandments in most of the world. Stealing, murder, adultery, etc.

There are 2 types of law, ritual law(most of levitical code) and moral law(10 commandments and downward). The 613 mitzvot is a mixture of both moral, ethic and ritual law.

Just because two things have something in common does not mean one came from the other. Also, no where in the Bible does it talk about moral laws and ritual laws, that is an interpretation of man. P.S. If it is not listed as wrong in the Bible, and if the Bible does not list something similar as wrong (so while the Bible does not say porn is wrong, it does say lusting is wrong, so no porn), can we assume it is not wrong?

 

[DaisyDay]

Because God is the vreator of everything it also mean he is the creator of law and morality. Without existence morality would not exist in the first place.

It would follow that He is the creator of immorality and lawlessness as well as those are a part of everything.

You will find that most law does stem from the 10 commandments in most of the world. Stealing, murder, adultery, etc.

Well, three of the ten, anyhow.

There are 2 types of law, ritual law(most of levitical code) and moral law(10 commandments and downward). The 613 mitzvot is a mixture of both moral, ethic and ritual law.

Homosexuality is not part of the Ten, but blasphemy is - yet most Christians treat the former as worse than the latter. Why is that?

 

[RealityPixie]

Because some people need to have a deity looking over their shoulder to stop them doing bad things

 

[dies-l]

Is the question whether an individual person must have religion to have a sense of morality?

Or is it whether all morality ultimately comes from God or some other deity?

If the former, then I think it is well stated in Scripture that one need not believe in God in order to live according to a high moral standard. Christians and non-Christians should not have trouble agreeing with this. The second question is perhaps the one that is more worthy of discussion and debate.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Good people act in good ways because that is who they are. They don’t need a religious context to act in good ways. They don’t engage in weighing the potential afterlife consequences when making an ethical decision.

I have never known religion to stop less than good people from acting in selfish, greedy, unlawful, spiteful, malicious, unkind or any other non-god ways. I lost track of how many Christian televangelists, ministers, politicians and community members have stood before podiums shedding crocodile tears announcing that they have sinned and are so very very sorry for that. They promise changes and being more God like….but their behavior never changes

 

[The Nihilist]

You will find that most law does stem from the 10 commandments in most of the world. Stealing, murder, adultery, etc.

Ridiculous. Of the Ten (eleven really) Commandments, only two are laws in most civilized nations: those forbidding stealing and murder. Of the remainder, many are absolutely opposed to the functioning of a civilized society. Were you unaware that for the law to follow the Ten Commandments, our society would have to recognize thought-crimes? Were you unaware that the First Amendment is the exact opposite of the First Commandment? Ridiculous.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Because some people need to have a deity looking over their shoulder to stop them doing bad things

Some find that little bit useful.

 

[RocketRed]

Good people act in good ways because that is who they are. They don’t need a religious context to act in good ways. They don’t engage in weighing the potential afterlife consequences when making an ethical decision.

I have never known religion to stop less than good people from acting in selfish, greedy, unlawful, spiteful, malicious, unkind or any other non-god ways. I lost track of how many Christian televangelists, ministers, politicians and community members have stood before podiums shedding crocodile tears announcing that they have sinned and are so very very sorry for that. They promise changes and being more God like….but their behavior never changes

This. This this this this this this this.

People are going to do good and do bad regardless of their faith or non-faith. It's just the nature of the beast, you know? Religion may inspire morality, it may encourage it, dispense it, urge it and enforce it. But it doesn't equal morality. A person be perfectly moral without religion just as a person can be perfectly immoral with religion. And vice versa.
Related question: if a person is only moral because a set of laws (religious or otherwise) tell them to be so, is that really morality? If you only act a certain way because an authority told you so and not because you believe it's right, is that truly moral?
I say no. Morality is knowing what is right and wrong regardless of what any authority, god or otherwise, may say. Morality is bigger than religion. It's encompasses everyone, the believers and the non.

 

[quatona]

I am inclined to think that one (possibly a prime) purpose of religion was/is to provide us with metaphores explaining the functioning of morality.
Some find these metaphores helpful and useful, some don´t.
Personally, I find e.g. some of the Buddhist metaphores more helpful and useful than those of the Abrahamic theisms.
However, I tend to think that recent findings of brain research win hands down over ancient metaphores when it comes to explaining these things.

 

[Numenor]

I'm curious why people seem to feel that religion is necessary for a basic sense of morality. That somehow, if there's no religion, there's no morality.

Why cant we have morality WITHOUT religion?

Of course you can. However you then have to decide what to base your morality on instead.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Of course you can. However you then have to decide what to base your morality on instead.

The only time one "needs to decide" is when one is engaged in a discussion such as this.

Since we evolved as a social species, we are evolved to cooperate. As we grow and learn, we recognize the patterns of cooperation. This is morality. There is no need to decide.

 

[jpcedotal]

I'm curious why people seem to feel that religion is necessary for a basic sense of morality. That somehow, if there's no religion, there's no morality.

Why cant we have morality WITHOUT religion?

You can not have morality without God's Wisdom. Whether you BELIEVE it comes from God makes no difference, it is still of God.

Religion is man-made and has nothing to do with morality. Also, morality is set in stone, it never needs updating. If God, through His Word and through the Holy Spirit says it is wrong, then it is ALWAYS and FOREVER wrong.

 

[Belk]

I'm curious why people seem to feel that religion is necessary for a basic sense of morality. That somehow, if there's no religion, there's no morality.

Why cant we have morality WITHOUT religion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

 

[CoderHead]

Also, morality is set in stone, it never needs updating. If God, through His Word and through the Holy Spirit says it is wrong, then it is ALWAYS and FOREVER wrong.

So what you're saying is that killing is ALWAYS and FOREVER wrong, no matter what ("Thou shalt not kill" - Exodus 20:13)...except for when it's OK with God that you do?

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves" - Numbers 31:17-18