How would you prove the Universe is old?

[AV1611VET]

Aw, diddums.

Try being denounced as non-Christian on a near daily basis, by other Christians.

Hopefully not I.

If I did, my sincerest apologies.

 

[Cabal]

Hopefully not I.

If I did, my sincerest apologies.

Quite right, you haven't, and that's a good thing in my book

But maybe this variance idea needs spreading among YECs more....

ETA: Thank you, by the way.

 

[AV1611VET]

Quite right, you haven't, and that's a good thing in my book

But maybe this variance idea needs spreading among YECs more....

ETA: Thank you, by the way.

You're very welcome.

I think we need to stop going after one another and concentrate on the Great Commission here; but certainly not to the exclusion of Truth.

I like to see questions answered here, but when the questioning is more science than Scripture, I think we should just bow out.

(And I need to heed that advice as well.)

 

[Loudmouth]

Just don't agree with you on how it came about.

What evidence, if found, would make you agree with us? What genetic markers shared by different species would make you agree that they share a common ancestor? What characteristics in fossils would make you agree that they demonstrate a transition between two forms? What evidence would make you sit back and say "hmmm, I may be wrong"? Any?

If not, then I can only assume that you are quite close minded about the whole thing.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Did you feel you could say whatever you liked to Glenn Morton?

Well, the reason I backpeddled after I got nasty was not because I respect him or his "scientific responses" (I clearly don't in the climate debate), but rather because I felt really bad getting snarky with a guy suffering from cancer.

If you think for one second scientists treat each other with kid gloves you have clearly never been around a group of professional scientists. (Usually an undergrad doesn't see the really good stuff, you have to get up into grad school before you see the real nasty backbiting and infighting).

So if you want to draw some comparisons, maybe it would (again) help if you actually knew what the other side sees.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I will certainly concede that you are very intrigued by and enjoy the creation and that those who look closely can appreciate more. Just don't agree with you on how it came about. But I'm glad you enjoy it immensely.

Is that why you said this?

I guess if you took it seriously ,you'd have to find another job, but maybe it would be more pleasant than arguing with all the loopy creationists out there. Perhaps you could learn to simply revel in the creation and know that you had no need to explain every last bit of it scientifically.

(emphasis added)

You're glad for us that we haven't been able to learn to simply revel in the creation without having to explain every last bit of it scientifically?

Seems like a strange way to present your point.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are free to express your opinion but I suspect you will still use every advantage science has provided to you. The computer you are typing on, the car you drive, the fuel you use, the electricity you consume, the lengthened lifespan you enjoy, the healthcare, the clean water, etc.

Thanks.

And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

That's nice of you guys to let us even sit in the same room that science's table is in.

 

[Gracchus]

That's nice of you guys to let us even sit in the same room that science's table is in.

Well, you could even eat if you didn't find the truth and reason so revolting.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Thanks.That's nice of you guys to let us even sit in the same room that science's table is in.

So you spit on science, tell us to "take a hike" when we say something that doesn't fit in with your interp, yet you aren't a hypocrite when you selectively partake of all that it is that science gives you.

Good for you!

But you missed the point (as usual): science works whether you believe in it or not! Whether you care about science or just pay it lipservice while you denigrate it (as you like to do).

You can tell science to take a hike while you are sitting using a computer and the computer still works for you!

That's the beauty of it. You don't have to look with "eyes of the spirit" to see science in action. You just have to exist.

But look how fast you take offense and you play the martyr! Boo hoo! AV feels slighted! Suck it up, little man! You equated my career to drug and alcohol abuse (LINKY).

Sorry, AV, your martyrdom doesn't cut it. Not by a long shot. And I suspect it wouldn't even cut it with your lord 'n savior (Luke 6:31).

 

[AV1611VET]

You can tell science to take a hike while you are sitting using a computer and the computer still works for you!

That works two ways, Thaumaturgy.

You can tell God to "take a hike" while breathing His air.

 

[thaumaturgy]

That works two ways, Thaumaturgy.

You can tell God to "take a hike" while breathing His air.

We know where the computer came from (total human creation, fully documented at all stages). Prove God gave us the air.

First "prove God", then prove God gave us the air.

Actually a better comparison would be if I said I loved God and he was a great part of my life but I want him to take a hike when I feel cramped by his rules. But that's a subtlety I don't expect you to catch...I mean you are the one who has told us scientists are gifts from God and also equated being a scientist to drug and alcohol abuse, so there's that...)

 

[BananaSlug]

I've noticed that many creationists have stopped attacking evolution and seem to be attacking all of science.
"Scientists are gifts from God... Thalidomide! Phlogiston! Pluto!!!!!!!"

It makes sense to me that some of evolution's biggest detractors are people who do not even understand the basic concepts and terminology of science. They are intellectually bankrupt and many are proud of it!

Proverbs 4:6-7, "Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding."

Proverbs 14:6
The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.

Proverbs 14:33
Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding, but what is in the heart of fools is made known.

Proverbs 16:16
How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver!

Ecclesiastes 7:12
For wisdom is a defense as money is a defense, But the excellence of knowledge is that wisdom gives life to those who have it.

It is nice to see Christians make a mockery of their own beliefs by trying to make the Genesis account of creation as a Dick-and-Jane storybook rather than an inspirational story of Hebrew poetry.

We have the evidence, get over it... unless someone would like to explain to me why God gave chickens the genes to grow teeth if birds were created without them.

 

[BananaSlug]

I guessing by the thread silence that nobody can...

 

[Hespera]

I've noticed that many creationists have stopped attacking evolution and seem to be attacking all of science.
"Scientists are gifts from God... Thalidomide! Phlogiston! Pluto!!!!!!!"

It makes sense to me that some of evolution's biggest detractors are people who do not even understand the basic concepts and terminology of science. They are intellectually bankrupt and many are proud of it!

Proverbs 4:6-7, "Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding."

Proverbs 14:6
The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.

Proverbs 14:33
Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding, but what is in the heart of fools is made known.

Proverbs 16:16
How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver!

Ecclesiastes 7:12
For wisdom is a defense as money is a defense, But the excellence of knowledge is that wisdom gives life to those who have it.

It is nice to see Christians make a mockery of their own beliefs by trying to make the Genesis account of creation as a Dick-and-Jane storybook rather than an inspirational story of Hebrew poetry.

We have the evidence, get over it... unless someone would like to explain to me why God gave chickens the genes to grow teeth if birds were created without them.

One of the particularly odd things to me is the mention in genesis of the domestic animals being created as they are now. (I guess I mean, were then, in biblical times) had by that time people already forgotten that they had domesticated wild animals, and didnt notice that their wild ancestors were still there to be seen?

 

[CoderHead]

I'm with you there. It is funny how the Biblical creation account explicitly states, "wild animals and livestock." As though domesticated animals were always domesticated.

 

[BananaSlug]

Many livestock breeds are relatively new. The Bible also says God confused the language of the people trying to build the tower. I wonder what languages creationists think God gave them.

 

[Hespera]

Many livestock breeds are relatively new. The Bible also says God confused the language of the people trying to build the tower. I wonder what languages creationists think God gave them.

English!

 

[CoderHead]

I wonder what languages creationists think God gave them.

English!

American!

 

[BananaSlug]

Also, how many languages did God give to the people? Was it just a few or many? The Bible is very vague in many areas. Maybe the Bable story was just the Hebrew people's way of explain the different languages they came in contact with (because they knew nothing of linguistics).
Nah, it has to be real. All of our modern scientism means nothing, unless it coincides my opinion.

 

[BananaSlug]

Random question: Is it a CF joke to make the atheist symbol look like a person with an empty head?