Science, CSI and the Evolution/Creationism Debate

[loveiseverywhere]

I have a question for creationists, especially those that seem to despise science or at least don't see science as being reliable.​

If someone you loved was murdered, would you want the murderer proven guilty (which would mean that a CSI team would be consulted for evidence to convict said murderer) by the means of today's technology or would you appeal to God for justice?

The reason I ask is because most people would want the murderer caught and thus would invoke scientific technology to prove their case. Yet they won't rely on this same science or believe in science when it comes to creation/evolution debates.

All of a sudden, science goes out the window when it's convenient for preserving cherished beliefs.​

 

[AV1611VET]

I have a question for creationists, especially those that seem to despise science or at least don't see science as being reliable.​

If someone you loved was murdered, would you want the murderer proven guilty (which would mean that a CSI team would be consulted for evidence to convict said murderer) by the means of today's technology or would you appeal to God for justice?

The reason I ask is because most people would want the murderer caught and thus would invoke scientific technology to prove their case. Yet they won't rely on this same science or believe in science when it comes to creation/evolution debates.

All of a sudden, science goes out the window when it's convenient for preserving cherished beliefs.​

I personally would want every scientific tool employed to find this guy guilty.

And for the past three years here, I've begged science to use their tools to find evidence for the Creation and the Flood.

My "keep looking" is one of the better-known mantras here.

I will forever challenge science to use whatever means they have to look, look, and continue to look.

I even challenge science to build a machine that can do this:

And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

I have about two pages of challenge threads --- and no takers.

Believe me --- no one challenges science like I do --- no one.

God is out there --- and He has confessed to what He did --- in Writing.

And not only did He confess as to what He did, but He said how He did it, what order He did it in, why He did it, when He did it, where He did it, and even who the eyewitness are.

He's even told you where NOT to look, and how to find what you're looking for!

Get to it CSI --- most of your work has been done for you --- what's the problem?

 

[sbvera13]

Get to it CSI --- most of your work has been done for you --- what's the problem?

Science began with Biblical principles several hundred years ago, and used the very methods you suggest. Most people, after looking for something for several hundred years and failing to find it, would conclude it doesn't exist. This is what happened to science over time.

The creationist, on the other hand, concludes that all this shows is that we aren't looking hard enough.

The paranoid-delusional, when it is shown to him the ominous "Them" are not actually behind him, concludes that all this shows is just how good "They" are at hiding.

There is a very strong parrarell between certain mental illnesses and creationism in this regard.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is a very strong parrarell between certain mental illnesses and creationism in this regard.

Let me get this straight.

If "science" searches for something with antiquated and out-dated tools, then declares something "doesn't exist"; and someone comes along and suggests they use their modern, more sophisticated and sensitive tools to look again --- that person is exhibiting mental illness?

By the way, what is the official, scientific ruling on Noah's Ark?

1. Doesn't exist.
2. Hasn't been found.

 

[Dream3wb723]

Let me get this straight.

If "science" searches for something with antiquated and out-dated tools, then declares something "doesn't exist"; and someone comes along and suggests they use their modern, more sophisticated and sensitive tools to look again --- that person is exhibiting mental illness?

By the way, what is the official, scientific ruling on Noah's Ark?

1. Doesn't exist.
2. Hasn't been found.

According to what I know it was found. (the printings of it any how) so that rules out option one and two.
or maybe this. "Does not want to be exposed to the world as been found. "

 

[MoonLancer]

And for the past three years here, I've begged science to use their tools to find evidence for the Creation and the Flood.

um... gods not there. The idea that the earth is old came from creationists with the idea to find evidence of a 6000 year old earth. oops. Where is god? maybe he is in that gap someplace.

I even challenge science to build a machine that can do this:

its called a paintbrush or lsd or both.

I have about two pages of challenge threads --- and no takers.

your arguments are fallacious and childishly simplistic that ignore the properties of god when its continent.

Believe me --- no one challenges science like I do --- no one.

ah i live the fresh smell of sin. ahhhh...

but He said how He did it

so how does ex nihilo work eh? i hardly think how is appropriate.

what order He did it in

and this changes in the different versions of genesis...

why He did it

nope. Its simply not there.

when He did it

Qoat me the bible with a date.

where He did it

and no evidence in sight. Must have gotten the address wrong.

and eve who the eyewitness are.

yeah... be Adam and even were just board floating in space a few days waiting to be created...

He's even told you where NOT to look, and how to find what you're looking for!

so if i wanted to find evidence of god creating the universe and you say the bible says were to look. where would that be exactly? oh thats right... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Get to it CSI --- most of your work has been done for you --- what's the problem?

the problem is the same method used in CSI also help discover evolution. Its called scientific inquiry/process.

 

[sbvera13]

Let me get this straight.

If "science" searches for something with antiquated and out-dated tools, then declares something "doesn't exist"; and someone comes along and suggests they use their modern, more sophisticated and sensitive tools to look again --- that person is exhibiting mental illness?

There are two ways not to find something; lack of evidence, and counter evidence. One might be mere ignorance and something could later be discovered; in this case, the detail of previous searches would determine how much potential for discovery there is in a new search. The second actually demonstrates the impossibility of the event.

You asked for evidence for the Flood. We have no evidence for it. We have, in fact, a colossal amount of counter-evidence. Considering the hundreds of years of physical science studying the earth, and the remarkable precision of today's instruments, I think it's reached a point the only reasonable conclude that there was no Flood. To say otherwise (ie, to deny percieved reality) is a symptom of mental illness.

Note: I'm not saying that every such person is thusly ill. A professional diagnosis of multiple symptoms would be required to say that. However, denial of reality is one such symptom. I bring it up to hopefully make people question the pride in their beliefs that makes them cling so strongly to them.

 

[Dream3wb723]

There are two ways not to find something; lack of evidence, and counter evidence. One might be mere ignorance and something could later be discovered; in this case, the detail of previous searches would determine how much potential for discovery there is in a new search. The second actually demonstrates the impossibility of the event.

You asked for evidence for the Flood. We have no evidence for it. We have, in fact, a colossal amount of counter-evidence. Considering the hundreds of years of physical science studying the earth, and the remarkable precision of today's instruments, I think it's reached a point the only reasonable conclude that there was no Flood. To say otherwise (ie, to deny percieved reality) is a symptom of mental illness.

Note: I'm not saying that every such person is thusly ill. A professional diagnosis of multiple symptoms would be required to say that. However, denial of reality is one such symptom. I bring it up to hopefully make people question the pride in their beliefs that makes them cling so strongly to them.

I think in this case with the flood there is enouth evadance on bouth sides, the question is then, "What do you want to believe. The word of God or a study made by man. Proof that there was a ark (like in my tread) is there, also for the flood as well. to proof this, how far under water would the earth be if all the ice would have melted?
also this inckudes if all the water under the earth would come to survice at the same time?

 

[sbvera13]

I think in this case with the flood there is enouth evadance on bouth sides

Show me a global flood sediment layer.

Found one yet?

Explain how Chinese and Egyptian writings proceed continuously through the Biblical period. Chinese writings go back 10,000 years, with enough continuity that many ancient writings can still be read by modern chinese. If there was a global flood, ancient writings and civilizations should stop suddenly and be replaced by a Hebrew society as the decendants of Noah take their place. They don't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Note: I'm not saying that every such person is thusly ill. A professional diagnosis of multiple symptoms would be required to say that.

And you're the one qualified to do so?

Here's a question I've been asking for awhile, and so far haven't gotten an answer:

What's the official diagnosis of a person who takes the Rorschach Test and sees Christian symbols?

 

[Dream3wb723]

Show me a global flood sediment layer.

Found one yet?

Explain how Chinese and Egyptian writings proceed continuously through the Biblical period. Chinese writings go back 10,000 years, with enough continuity that many ancient writings can still be read by modern chinese. If there was a global flood, ancient writings and civilizations should stop suddenly and be replaced by a Hebrew society as the decendants of Noah take their place. They don't.

Please stop me if Im wrong, but wasnt there more than one ark found. The chinece wrote they as well founf some thing simulat looking as a ark. how they found it was on via a trail of tar that was running down one of the mountance.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please stop me if Im wrong, but wasnt there more than one ark found. The chinece wrote they as well founf some thing simulat looking as a ark. how they found it was on via a trail of tar that was running down one of the mountance.

Do you think it's really going to matter to these guys if they find the Ark or not?

It could even have NOAH WAS HERE written inside, and it would mean nothing.

 

[Dream3wb723]

Do you think it's really going to matter to these guys if they find the Ark or not?

It could even have NOAH WAS HERE written inside, and it would mean nothing.

OK. Then why am I even trying. If people are blindy looking in the wrong direction, I cant blame them. My prairs will be with them, that is then the best I can do.

 

[sbvera13]

I notice you ignore the piece of evidence I gave - cultutal continuity - that makes a worldwide flood as described by the bible impossible.

Also, there is no chinese ark in the Bible. Why are you looking for one? If you're going to go outside the Bible anyway, might as well accept evolution.

 

[Dream3wb723]

I notice you ignore the piece of evidence I gave - cultutal continuity - that makes a worldwide flood as described by the bible impossible.

Also, there is no chinese ark in the Bible. Why are you looking for one? If you're going to go outside the Bible anyway, might as well accept evolution.

As long as there is a God and as long as there is still a bible, even avter the stones has started singing, I will not accept the loss.

in short. NEVA

 

[LightSeaker]

And for the past three years here, I've begged science to use their tools to find evidence for the Creation and the Flood.

AV...Listen man...I hate to tell break the news to you, but it's REALLY, REALLY hard to find something that is not there.

With as much science that's been done these past 100 years, if there were any evidence for the Biblical Creation story and the Flood, it would have been found.

.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV...Listen man...I hate to tell break the news to you, but it's REALLY, REALLY hard to find something that is not there.

And if I was sponsoring a dig, and you were on the team, and I heard you say that --- your next check would be your severance pay.

With as much science that's been done these past 100 years, if there were any evidence for the Biblical Creation story and the Flood, it would have been found.

Keep looking.

You guys make such a big deal about finding teeth and bones and such underground when it fits some computer program you guys made up --- exercise the same patience and faith with a global Flood and maybe --- just maybe --- you might find something.

You guys don't even report false echos --- and that says a lot.

 

[Dream3wb723]

AV...Listen man...I hate to tell break the news to you, but it's REALLY, REALLY hard to find something that is not there.

With as much science that's been done these past 100 years, if there were any evidence for the Biblical Creation story and the Flood, it would have been found.

.

Does the tearm look and thy shall found say anything. Must people dont bother wath other says. As by a pevious quite mady by AV1611VET. Most poeple follow the majority. Wether it is true or not.

Also, before people even knew there was a word like evolution, they thought the earth was flat. till some one tiok his ship and went around the world. Dont you think that freaked human kind just a bit, knowing there Philosophers were wrong.

 

[LightSeaker]

You guys make such a big deal about finding teeth and bones and such underground when it fits some computer program you guys made up --- exercise the same patience and faith with a global Flood and maybe --- just maybe --- you might find something.

You guys don't even report false echos --- and that says a lot.

There has been so many geological digs and explorations done, especially by the oil companies, that if any sign of a global flood where evidenced, if the flood had happened, evidence would have been found. God's Creation is not showing us any Global Flood evidence. It's time to face the fact that the Bible story of creation and global flood are myths of an ancient middle-eastern tribe of desert dwellers.

.

 

[TheBear]

I have a question for creationists, especially those that seem to despise science or at least don't see science as being reliable.​

If someone you loved was murdered, would you want the murderer proven guilty (which would mean that a CSI team would be consulted for evidence to convict said murderer) by the means of today's technology or would you appeal to God for justice?

The reason I ask is because most people would want the murderer caught and thus would invoke scientific technology to prove their case. Yet they won't rely on this same science or believe in science when it comes to creation/evolution debates.

All of a sudden, science goes out the window when it's convenient for preserving cherished beliefs.​

Indeed!

You point out a glaring inconsistency that will, no doubt, be tap danced around.



That said, I truly believe that deep down inside, they know they're wrong and are fighting against their own logic and reason in the process. I know that if they are honest with themselves, (and I assume most have the capacity for self evaluation, learning and maturing), they will agree that they are allowing their faith and beliefs to trump logic and reason.