Is the Catholic Papacy an Anti-Christ?

[BrightCandle]

Since, according to Jesus' revelation ,all the world eventually worships the beast in a united religion denying the real Christ/Messiah and worshiping one in his place ['antichristos' in Greek means one in place of the annointed Christ/Messiah] , then the beast and antichrist must surely both be Jews else they would not be accepted by the Jews as their messiah and chief rabbi.

As to the pope at the time [if there is one], he will still claim the papal title of Vicar of Christ which means exactly 'one in place of Christ' ,exactly the same title as 'antichristos' in Greek ... but this may only signify that the antichrist unites the RCs into the worldwide religion of the false Christ prophesied by Jesus.

The evidence of apostasy of all religion from the scripture is overwhelming , it is not just RCs , it is mainline Judaism and alll mainline Christianity ... one proof is logical in that God is not divided but religion is deeply divided by dogmas of men , and Jesus prophesied that religion not only will but must fall away from God's truth ... so why close the eyes when we can see the divisions in religion and the countless differences from scripture ?

Unity of faith worldwide might seem a great achievement indeed and it is clear that it takes Satan to unite the world as one against the few remaining saints of the time [perhaps a couple of thousand, since Jesus said that in all there would be 144,000 saints only in this earth] ... but consider the implication for modern chrsitianity , it means that almost all people alrady worship a false image of Christ ... one can verify that by comparing the religious image to the scriptural one , they are nothing like each other.

the falling of RC for Satan's wiles is the least of the earth's problems since all other religions will do the same in coming to a united world religion of faith in a saviour , a king [Christ, Messiah], but it will not be the real one...

This is an expositional discussion of the implications of scripture, it is no criticism of religion since as Jesus said, it MUST be so ... it is not the fault of anyone that it is so , this is just the way scripture indicates that God tells us it will go in our future ... In fact there are movements already to unify not only Christianity, but also other religions with Christianity .

The fact of the matter is that the majority of the Jews in the world are very secular in modern times, the orthodox Jews are relatively small in number. When it comes to the Jews and the Antichrist in the end times, the Bible is clear that their will be only two classes; those who receive the "mark of the beast", and those that keep God's commandments and receive the "seal of God". There will not be a multitude of exempted people or faiths, the Jews in the very last days will either choose the real Jesus, or give their worship to the Antichrist, that is going to be our supreme test of faith in the last days. When it comes to the Roman Catholic Church there is not other professed Christian church that has a 1,800 year history like Rome. Its characteristics are a perfect fit to the defining points that describe the "Antichrist", "Beast", "Babylon", and the "Man of Sin".

 

[stranger]

I hear you, but don't you want Jesus to return soon? Don't you think that we have been here on planet earth long enough? Its already been about 6,000 years sin, suffering, and death. Enough already!

God will be the one who says when it is enough , plenty of signs to be fulfilled first :

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Eccles 9:1 ¶ For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The fact of the matter is that the majority of the Jews in the world are very secular in modern times, the orthodox Jews are relatively small in number. When it comes to the Jews and the Antichrist in the end times, the Bible is clear that their will be only two classes those receive the "mark of the beast" and those that keep God's commandments and receive the "seal of God". There will not be a multitude of exempted people or faiths, the Jews in the very last days will either choose the real Jesus, or give their worship to the Antichrist, that is going to be our supreme test of faith in the last days. When it comes to the Roman Catholic Church there is not other professed Christian church that has a 1,800 year history like Rome. Its characteristics are a perfect fit to the defining points that describe the "Antichrist", "Beast", "Babylon", and the "Man of Sin".

Oh brother

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last Hour it-is and according-as ye hear that the anti-christ is coming. And now anti-christs, many, have become whence we are knowing that last Hour it-is. [ Reve 1:7, 9:12, 11:14].

2 thess 2:3 No any ye should be deluding according to no yet one manner/way that if-ever no may be coming the apostasy/apo-stasia <646> first and may be being un-covered the Man of the Sin the son of the destruction/apwleiaV <684>.

 

[Thekla]

Hmmm ...

"ekklesia" is the term used for the public Assembly of the (legally defined) citizens of the city-state of Athens.

Guess that leaves "ekklesia" in the pagan sphere

 

[BrightCandle]

God will be the one who says when it is enough , plenty of signs to be fulfilled first :

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Eccles 9:1 ¶ For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I would differ with you regarding their being "plenty of signs" that still need to be fulfilled. When you read and interpret the Bible prophesies from an historicist view point, its clear that we are living in the end of the last days. Why do I say this because the 1,260 days/years prophesy has been fulfilled, and the 2,300 days/years prophecy has been fulfilled, these were the last of the exact time prophecies in the Bible. Plus, its clear that the "deadly wound" of the Papacy has been almost completely healed. Additionally, we are in a time when men now have the power to kill everyone on planet earth via nuclear war, this is unprecedented in world history.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Plus, its clear that the "deadly wound" of the Papacy has been almost completely healed. Additionally, we are in a time when men now have the power to kill everyone on planet earth via nuclear war, this is unprecedented in world history.

Oh my.......

 

[stranger]

I would differ with you regarding their being "plenty of signs" that still need to be fulfilled. When you read and interpret the Bible prophesies from an historicist view point, its clear that we are living in the end of the last days. Why do I say this because the 1,260 days/years prophesy has been fulfilled, and the 2,300 days/years prophecy has been fulfilled, these were the last of the exact time prophecies in the Bible. Plus, its clear that the "deadly wound" of the Papacy has been almost completely healed. Additionally, we are in a time when men now have the power to kill everyone on planet earth via nuclear war, this is unprecedented in world history.

there are several problems with looking at scripture that way:

-1. the scripture describes signs, seals, events in sequence to be fulfilled before the return of Jesus, but there are no dates or numbers attached.

-2. Jesus told us that we cannot know the time of some things in the future but must watch [for the signs in sequence?]
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

-3 several people gained a lot of followers attempting to determine where the various periods of days [often turned into years] in scripture began and ended ... seriously they have all been shown to be wrong whose dates have expired... it has become a rather strange game based on guesswork and misrepresentation of scripture , guess why people do it and others fall for it... Jesus said watch because we don't know, all we can watch for is the signs in sequence and there are quite a few yet... to be specific there is for instance the antichrist uniting the world and its religion against the few remaining saints , only a couple of thousand do not accept that belief in a Christ figure [Rev 13:3-10, Rev 7:3-8] but it is created by Satan ... we are some way off united world religion based on a false image of Christ...

-4. A day may seem like a year or a thousand years to a timeless god ...it is not necessarily meant to be a means to interpret scripture... an example :

1260 days happens to be the same as three and a half years, the same as 'a time and times, and the dividing of time' , the same as 42 months ... all periods talked about in prophecy ... it doesn't really favour the idea that it is talking about 1260 years ...

----- That is not to say that I don't think the world is in deeper trouble than most people yet realise ... global warming which is currently accelerating out of control [because people use machines and motor cars to do 90&#37; of the work] is destroying nature and climate stability on which we depend absolutely for food , but there is evidence from the past that melting the arctic snow will trigger vulcanism [by changing water pressure on tectonic plates] , enough to fulfill the signs in scripture [sun mostly blotted out, moon blood red by night , due to ash and sulphur dioxide ejected high into the atmosphere - this alone could devastate life on earth and kill billions of people]

 

[Secundulus]

I think there are a lot of Christian who will follow the real Anti-Christ straight to hell while they are waiting for the Pope to grow horns.

 

[BrightCandle]

there are several problems with looking at scripture that way:

-1. the scripture describes signs, seals, events in sequence to be fulfilled before the return of Jesus, but there are no dates or numbers attached.

-2. Jesus told us that we cannot know the time of some things in the future but must watch [for the signs in sequence?]
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

-3 several people gained a lot of followers attempting to determine where the various periods of days [often turned into years] in scripture began and ended ... seriously they have all been shown to be wrong whose dates have expired... it has become a rather strange game based on guesswork and misrepresentation of scripture , guess why people do it and others fall for it... Jesus said watch because we don't know, all we can watch for is the signs in sequence and there are quite a few yet... to be specific there is for instance the antichrist uniting the world and its religion against the few remaining saints , only a couple of thousand do not accept that belief in a Christ figure [Rev 13:3-10, Rev 7:3-8] but it is created by Satan ... we are some way off united world religion based on a false image of Christ...

-4. A day may seem like a year or a thousand years to a timeless god ...it is not necessarily meant to be a means to interpret scripture... an example :

1260 days happens to be the same as three and a half years, the same as 'a time and times, and the dividing of time' , the same as 42 months ... all periods talked about in prophecy ... it doesn't really favour the idea that it is talking about 1260 years ...

----- That is not to say that I don't think the world is in deeper trouble than most people yet realise ... global warming which is currently accelerating out of control [because people use machines and motor cars to do 90&#37; of the work] is destroying nature and climate stability on which we depend absolutely for food , but there is evidence from the past that melting the arctic snow will trigger vulcanism [by changing water pressure on tectonic plates] , enough to fulfill the signs in scripture [sun mostly blotted out, moon blood red by night , due to ash and sulphur dioxide ejected high into the atmosphere - this alone could devastate life on earth and kill billions of people]

I don't think that you comprehended the significance of the fact that there are NO more exact time dated prophesies to be fulfilled now. Only the second coming of Jesus. Remember, the golden image of a man, that the Babylonian King, Nebucadnezzar saw in vision, and Daniel interpreted for him detailing the five world kingdoms? It is clearly historicist in nature, because Daniel clearly stated that Babylon was the head of Gold, then the chest was of silver, history proves that that was Medio/Persia, then the waist of bronze, Greece, then the legs of iron, Rome, then the feet of mixed iron and clay-Europe, and then the clincher: Daniel saw a Rock (Jesus the Rock) that smashed the image to dust (the second coming of Jesus). Since the Roman Empire fell in 476 A.D., we are now living in the "toe nails" of time!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think there are a lot of Christian who will follow the real Anti-Christ straight to hell while they are waiting for the Pope to grow horns.

No doubt

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Oh brother

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last Hour it-is and according-as ye hear that the anti-christ is coming. And now anti-christs, many, have become whence we are knowing that last Hour it-is. [ Reve 1:7, 9:12, 11:14].

2 thess 2:3 No any ye should be deluding according to no yet one manner/way that if-ever no may be coming the apostasy/apo-stasia <646> first and may be being un-covered the Man of the Sin the son of the destruction/apwleiaV <684>.

I dont believe that the 1260 is that number of years.. it's 360 days x 3.5 = 3.5 years, which is half of 7 years, (which is symbolic for the divine number), and half of it is the not-divine number.. a symbolic number to denote a time of satanic persecution. The 1260 years does not fit with literal years since the fall of Rome until the time of Napoleon.. i've looked into all that..

 

[stranger]

In Rev 13:3-7 Jesus is very explicit about the whole world worshiping the beast [empire] created by Satan and Satan himself ... clearly this is not a belief that Satan is wrong , not worship of Satan by that name ['adversary'] but Satan is transformed to look like a saviour, one in place of Christ [the actual meaning of 'antichristos' in Greek]

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Jesus tells us how many , 144,000 , [rev 7:3-8] are sealed as saints in this earth... but by the time they stand against Satan and his united worldwide religion and empire there can hardly be more than a couple of thousand still alive [and Jesus says he will take them from here and there , so they are still scattered worldwide performing their task set by Jesus , to find the scattered lost house of Israel, when he comes again]

We are thus seeing that all word religions , according to Jesus, will unite in worship of a 'messenger of light' , but it is Satan... it is a god reason why all that is described as holy in scripture has already disappeared from all now-divided mass world religions under a mass of bureaucratic mistakes and autocracy... ritual, memorial Holy days, mode of prayer, equality , sharing ... all changed so nothing remains of Jesus' teachings, the original gospel , the original new covenant with those who broke te old covenant Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12, ... those who claim to follow Jesus no longer are required to become saints [yet Jesus said he wold take no sinners at his return, and few have hope in redemption after resurrection of sinners as promised by Jesus to the many Rev 7:9-10]

We are quite close then, religion has fallen away as prophesied by Jesus that it must first do ... we await its unification,conceivably linked to some sort of 'new world order', autocratic world government by sinners pretending very hard to be good ,but operating in the private rather short-sighted 'interests' only of the few [notably the international bankers ,who already covertly run most government and industry in the world and who already own half the wealth of the world (held by just 227 families) and to whom the world is in unrepayable debt already ... yet they did nothing but 'worship Satan' to get there]

I guess it would be pretty scary if it has not been all prophesied and we know its end, that it is simply a trap set by Satan into which he and his worshipers fall themselves ... they gain the earth but destroy it in the process, and die... no way out of death but resurrection by God's power, and Satan is not resurrected after three days, but after a thousand years... in the resurrection of the unjust

Since almsot all the world is involved in the worship of the 'angel of light', it implies the control of the RC faith as well as all others [except the faith of the few [Matt 7:14] saints in God , Jesus , and scripture]

We can see then why religion has gone wrong , how even most Jews are led astray by Satan's appearance as their long-awaited messiah [at last a true king leading them and ruling the earth ]... it implies that Satan will appear as a Jew of the tribe of Judah, just as Jesus did, or he would not be accepted by Jews [or Christians] because of the scriptures. [pretty ironic really!]

The other thing is the rapid conquering of the world described in scripture, not something that we can fail to notice , and people being convinced that no-one can stand against this figure [but a couple of thousand saints apparently do, and most die for it , alone except for God and the prayers of the other few (only to be resurrected at the return of Jesus, their trial over , unlike billions of sinners , sinner 'christians' and sinner Jews, then disillusioned in their religion as the world falls apart with still their trials to face in the righteous new earth after death and resurrection...

the plan is tuly awesome in its stages after that, comprehensive redemption in only three phases , progressive and complete separation of his followers from the resurrected Satan until he is left alone, showing him that he is no god ... separation of those who will live righteously [obeying God's law of love] in the new earth , so that those who felt evil benefited them have to live with no-one but themselves to prey upon ,,, they lose more than they gain , unsurprisingly they learn fast and sue for God's enduring mercy... and God's prodigal son comes home to Daddy in the closing seen , broken repentant , and acknowledging Jesus :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The scripture shows us a very different picture of Gd and Chrsit and the plan for our future than religions designed by men to control mens thoughts and behaviour in this life , designed by Satan, as Jesus actually revealed to us [but who listens? - we know from Jesus that it MUST be that not many will do so now]

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

That passage actually refers to the Beast of the Sea, which represents government. The woman riding it is the apostate church.

That's a quote from post #25 in this thread.

So the apostate church is whom again? I know that all Word of Faith churches can be included as apostate...some pentecostal and a whole lotta charismatic....so whom pray tell...all? Just the RCC?
As much as people love to bust on the RCC, I see Word of Faith as more dangerous and apostate than Rome has ever ever been!!!!!

To answer the OP directly: no.


thanks for listening.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

That's a quote from post #25 in this thread.

So the apostate church is whom again? I know that all Word of Faith churches can be included as apostate...some pentecostal and a whole lotta charismatic....so whom pray tell...all? Just the RCC?
As much as people love to bust on the RCC, I see Word of Faith as more dangerous and apostate than Rome has ever ever been!!!!!

To answer the OP directly: no.


thanks for listening.

I've never even heard of 'Word of Faith'..

Baptist evangelist Justin Peters, an outspoken critic of the Word of Faith movement who wrote his master's of divinity thesis on Benny Hinn and has appeared frequently as an expert on Word of Faith pastors in documentaries and TV news stories, traces the movement's origins to the metaphysical cults of the late 19th and early 20th centuries (Aimee Semple McPherson's Foursquare Church, Phineus Quimby's New Thought Movement, Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science)

Word of Faith teaching holds that God wants His people to be financially prosperous, as well as have good health, good marriages and relationships, and to live generally prosperous lives. Word of Faith teaches that God empowers His people (blesses them) to achieve the promises that are contained in the Bible.[12] However, most Christian theologians view these teachings as heretical.


I had noticed these trends in the last church i was at.. although they were not explicit in any 'Word of Faith' doctrine.

Within the Word of Faith teaching, a central element of receiving from God involves "confession". This doctrine is often referred to as "Positive Confession" or "Faith Confession" by practitioners and "Name it and Claim it" or "Blab it and Grab it" by detractors.

'Blab it and Grab it' .. that's so funny.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's a quote from post #25 in this thread.

So the apostate church is whom again? I know that all Word of Faith churches can be included as apostate...some pentecostal and a whole lotta charismatic....so whom pray tell...all? Just the RCC?
As much as people love to bust on the RCC, I see Word of Faith as more dangerous and apostate than Rome has ever ever been!!!!!

To answer the OP directly: no.


thanks for listening.

What about the Mormons or the JW's?

 

[stranger]

So the apostate church is whom again? I know that all Word of Faith churches can be included as apostate...some pentecostal and a whole lotta charismatic....so whom pray tell...all? Just the RCC?
As much as people love to bust on the RCC, I see Word of Faith as more dangerous and apostate than Rome has ever ever been!!!!!

To answer the OP directly: no.

thanks for listening.

Jesus makes it clear that the whole world will follow the antichrist [Rev 13:3-10] bar only the few saints left alive by then ... [he shows that only 144,000 saints will live between his first and second coming in Rev 7:3-8 and so that leaves but about a couple of thousand alive, scattered worldwide looking for the House of Israel, at any one time]

It is obvious just by counting then that ANY sizeable religion will, according to Jesus' prophecy be worshiping a false Christ image by the time Jesus returns ... examination of modern religion shows the apostasy , but one cannot change it, Jesus and the saints say in scripture it had to be so before Jesus' return...

 

[Super Kal]

instead of debating a single denomination or something, stranger makes a point: the whole world will follow him...

this is not going to be one denomination or sect, especially when it comes to the apostate church... this is going to cover the entire body of Christ, ranging to all denominations, sects, and cults... the sad thing is, people will fall to this beast, but the beauty of it is that Jesus will use this to wake others up in their faith, so that they can hear the cry and trim their lamps

 

[stranger]

instead of debating a single denomination or something, stranger makes a point: the whole world will follow him...

this is not going to be one denomination or sect, especially when it comes to the apostate church... this is going to cover the entire body of Christ, ranging to all denominations, sects, and cults... the sad thing is, people will fall to this beast, but the beauty of it is that Jesus will use this to wake others up in their faith, so that they can hear the cry and trim their lamps

I think that you did not get the whole message of the scripture , only a couple of thousand at most will hold out without sinning until Jesus returns ,Jesus will only take at most that couple of thousand alive in translation to the spirit, the rest of the 144,000 [Rev7:3-8] died previously, spread throughout history.

a couple of thousand scattered here and there [where Jesus states he will find them, one here one there] all over the world, doing what he commanded, looking for the lost House of Israel.

that isn't ANY denomination then, the saints are already too scattered to ever congregate again [their last congregations were the seven churches of God and all lie in ruins to this day [in modern Turkey]]

 

[Dark_Lite]

Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 years -------> It's the anti-Christ!

Brilliant if I do say so myself.

 

[stranger]

:o Could you explain what on earth you mean in terms even the newbies here can understand and using scripture please?