Is the Catholic Papacy an Anti-Christ?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by cowboysfan1970 What if the Anti-Christ is radical Islam or some other ideology that's hostile to Christianity and Christians?

The winning post!!!!!!! Not to divert this thread to another conversation, but look at this link. Perhaps this is another topic for a new thread.

Its time to quit fighting each other and get back to fighting the real enemy.

How does Islam fit into the 10 kings in Revelation as God seems to be using them against "babylon".
Sounds more like anti-Islam rhetoric to me......

Reve 17:12 And the ten horns which thou saw ten kings are, who-any a Kingdom not yet received, but authority as kings one hour they are receiving with the beast.
13 these one opinion/gnwmhn <1106> are having and the power and the authority of them to the beast they are giving.
17 For God had given into the hearts of them to do the opinion/gnwmhn <1106> of Him and to do one opinion/gnwmhn <1106> and to give the kingdom of them to the beast until shall be being *finish* the words/*declarations of the God.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

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Is the RCC and/or it's Pope or the Catholic Papacy the or an anti-Christ?

No.
They do not deny that Jesus Christ is come in flesh.
It is stupid to claim that they do.

 

[Secundulus]

How does Islam fit into the 10 kings in Revelation as God seems to be using them against "babylon".
Sounds more like anti-Islam rhetoric to me......

Reve 17:12 And the ten horns which thou saw ten kings are, who-any a Kingdom not yet received, but authority as kings one hour they are receiving with the beast.
13 these one opinion/gnwmhn <1106> are having and the power and the authority of them to the beast they are giving.
17 For God had given into the hearts of them to do the opinion/gnwmhn <1106> of Him and to do one opinion/gnwmhn <1106> and to give the kingdom of them to the beast until shall be being *finish* the words/*declarations of the God.

I recommend you read all the pages at that link. The author makes a very good scriptural case. He may be wrong, but, at least to me, it makes a whole lot more sense than most of the other theories floating around.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I recommend you read all the pages at that link. The author makes a very good scriptural case. He may be wrong, but, at least to me, it makes a whole lot more sense than most of the other theories floating around.

Nah that is ok. I have my own "theory" and it doesn't concern the Papacy or Islam.

 

[BreadAlone]

That passage actually refers to the Beast of the Sea, which represents government. The woman riding it is the apostate church.

How does Islam fit into the 10 kings in Revelation as God seems to be using them against "babylon".
Sounds more like anti-Islam rhetoric to me......

Reve 17:12 And the ten horns which thou saw ten kings are, who-any a Kingdom not yet received, but authority as kings one hour they are receiving with the beast.
13 these one opinion/gnwmhn <1106> are having and the power and the authority of them to the beast they are giving.
17 For God had given into the hearts of them to do the opinion/gnwmhn <1106> of Him and to do one opinion/gnwmhn <1106> and to give the kingdom of them to the beast until shall be being *finish* the words/*declarations of the God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That passage actually refers to the Beast of the Sea, which represents government. The woman riding it is the apostate church.

Thank you. That is very similar to my view

 

[Secundulus]

That passage actually refers to the Beast of the Sea, which represents government.

Maybe Sharia, which is a government.

The woman riding it is the apostate church.

At the time Islam rode out of Arabia it was referred to as a Christian Heresy rather than a different religion.

It is only in these latter days that we try to think of it as a legitimate religion founded by Muhammed who received revelation from heaven.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Maybe Sharia, which is a government.

At the time Islam rode out of Arabia it was referred to as a Christian Heresy rather than a different religion.

It is only in these latter days that we try to think of it as a legitimate religion founded by Muhammed who received revelation from heaven.

What about the religion of Phariseeism Judaism? They are also apostate from Jesus Christ and even moreso than is Islam.

The Jews converting to Jesus were just as persecuted by their own brethren as they were from the non-Jews.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 for ye became imitators brethren of the Out-calleds of the God that are in the Judea/ioudaia <2449> in Christ Jesus, because such things ye suffered, even ye, from your own together-tribesmen/sum-fuletwn <4853>, as also they from the Judeans/ioudaiwn <2453,

 

[Secundulus]

What about the religion of Phariseeism Judaism? They are also apostate from Jesus Christ.

The Jews converting to Jesus were just as persecuted by their own brethren as they were from the non-Jews.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 for ye became imitators brethren of the Out-calleds of the God that are in the Judea/ioudaia <2449> in Christ Jesus, because such things ye suffered, even ye, from your own together-tribesmen/sum-fuletwn <4853>, as also they from the Judeans/ioudaiwn <2453,

You need to read the link to see what I am talking about.

 

[BreadAlone]

Maybe Sharia, which is a government.

No, because if you study the context of the symbolism which surrounds the beast of the Sea, it is appearent that it represents ALL of the governments that will exist until Christ's Second coming. The apostate church rides the beast; and that makes sense! The apostate church seeks terestial glories, after which the government often rebels against the "church" and devours her, as described in this passage.

Islam is "antichrist," but it is not depicted in Revelation that I can tell.

What about the religion of Phariseeism Judaism? They are also apostate from Jesus Christ.

The Jews converting to Jesus were just as persecuted by their own brethren as they were from the non-Jews.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 for ye became imitators brethren of the Out-calleds of the God that are in the Judea/ioudaia <2449> in Christ Jesus, because such things ye suffered, even ye, from your own together-tribesmen/sum-fuletwn <4853>, as also they from the Judeans/ioudaiwn <2453,

It is all apostates. I guess in a general sense you could cite the ancient Jews, who persecuted the prophets and in that way were "drunk on the blood of the Saints." A medieval example is when the Reformers were persecuted by the medieval Church and tortured.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Maybe Sharia, which is a government.

It is both religion and government combined.
I did have a rather fun thread up on the NCR board concerning Sharia

http://www.christianforums.com/t5635831/
Would people leave the U.S. if Sharia Laws were enacted?

 

[Secundulus]

No, because if you study the context of the symbolism which surrounds the beast of the Sea, it is appearent that it represents ALL of the governments that will exist until Christ's Second coming. The apostate church rides the beast; and that makes sense! The apostate church seeks terestial glories, after which the government often rebels against the "church" and devours her, as described in this passage.

That pretty much describes Islam and its govenmental system Sharia. It is also interesting to note how many governments today, including our own, are already adopting elements of Sharia.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong on this. Much does seem to fit though, particularly the Abomination of Desolation which sits in the Holy of Holies. Look where the Muslim Dome of the Rock sits as a testimony to Allah.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That pretty much describes Islam and its govenmental system Sharia. It is also interesting to note how many governments today, including our own, are already adopting elements of Sharia.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong on this. Much does seem to fit though, particularly the Abomination of Desolation which sits in the Holy of Holies. Look where the Muslim Dome of the Rock sits as a testimony to Allah.

what makes you think God Himself didn't allow it to be put there for punishment to the Jews and Jerusalem for not believing in His Son Jesus Christ?

Deut 28:67 in the morning thou sayest, O that it were evening! and in the evening thou sayest, O that it were morning! from the fear of thy heart, with which thou art afraid, and from the sight of thine eyes which thou seest.

 

[Secundulus]

what makes you think God Himself didn't allow it to be put there for punishment to the Jews and Jerusalem for not believing in His Son Jesus Christ?
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/...he-rock-from-mt-of-olives-cc-wayne-mclean.jpg

Because there is no evidence of that in scripture. Rather, it speaks of an abomination of desolation.

This is the erection of the image, or temple, of a false God on the site of the Holy of Holies.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Because there is no evidence of that in scripture. Rather, it speaks of an abomination of desolation.

This is the erection of the image, or temple, of a false God on the site of the Holy of Holies.

In my own view, Jerusalem is no holier than my own backyard.
I myself could care less whether the Dome stays there or not myself. I and many others also believe the Olivet Discourse and most of Reve is fulfilled anyway

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written for the time nigh.

Matt 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation the being declared thru Daniel the prophet having stood in a place, holy (the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) let be understanding!/noeitw <3539> (5720)

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7164949&page=2
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

 

[BreadAlone]

In my own view, Jerusalem is no holier than my own backyard.
I myself could care less whether the Dome stays there or not myself. I and many others also believe the Olivet Discourse and most of Reve is fulfilled anyway

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written for the time nigh.

Matt 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation the being declared thru Daniel the prophet having stood in a place, holy (the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) let be understanding!/noeitw <3539> (5720)

DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City - Page 2 - Christian Forums
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

Exactly!! Jerusalem is not God's dwelling any longer; when the curtain in the temple split at Christ's death, the gap between God and man was bridged, and the "Holy of holies;" the dwelling of God, became within each believer, or more generically the Church.

The Abomination that causes Desolation spoken of by Daniel was fulfilled in Antiochus Epiphanes; when Christ prophisied of an "Abomination that causes Desolation " some 200 years later, he was no longer talking about the Jewish Temple, but of the Antichrist which will permeate even the very Church of God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Exactly!! Jerusalem is not God's dwelling any longer; when the curtain in the temple split at Christ's death, the gap between God and man was bridged, and the "Holy of holies;" the dwelling of God, became within each believer, or more generically the Church.

The Abomination that causes Desolation spoken of by Daniel was fulfilled in Antiochus Epiphanes; when Christ prophisied of an "Abomination that causes Desolation " some 200 years later, he was no longer talking about the Jewish Temple, but of the Antichrist which will permeate even the very Church of God.

From what I understand of the RC's view, they believe the 2nd advent happens AFTER the 1000yr period.
I find that a rather "odd" view myself. What are the Lutherans view?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7348339/#post51179593
Catholic view of the end-times

I see that on our profiles at CF, we get to choose our 'endtimes' views. Which one is Catholic? I'm having some trouble figuring it out...

I know that the Church teaches Amilleninialism - which I put in bold. What about the other ones? Is it... historic, preterist, or futurist? Pretribulation, midtribulationm, posttribulation? hmm...

aren't we partial preterists?? (but here they don't make the distinction between 'full' and 'partial')

 

[Secundulus]

The Abomination that causes Desolation spoken of by Daniel was fulfilled in Antiochus Epiphanes; when Christ prophisied of an "Abomination that causes Desolation " some 200 years later, he was no longer talking about the Jewish Temple, but of the Antichrist which will permeate even the very Church of God.

This cannot be so because Jesus spoke of it here in future tense.

Mark 13:14 (NASB95)
14 "But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Antiochus Epiphanes was the shadow, the future reality was something else.

ALso, Islam did permeate even the very Church of God. Everywhere that Islam now is, the Church of God existed before.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This cannot be so because Jesus spoke of it here in future tense.

Mark 13:14 (NASB95)
14 "But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Antiochus Epiphanes was the shadow, the future reality was something else.

ALso, Islam did permeate even the very Church of God. Everywhere that Islam now is, the Church of God existed before.

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, the way it looks here, the Apostles themselves would see it and the same word for "reading" is used in Reve 1.

Matt 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation the being declared thru Daniel the prophet having stood in a place, holy (the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) let be understanding!/noeitw <3539> (5720)

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written for the time nigh.

 

[BreadAlone]

Well, Lutheranism teaches Amillennialism. The 1,000 years spoken of in Revelation are clearly not literal, as Christ's Kingdom IS NOT "of this world," and there will be one Judgement Day after which the Righteous will inherit eternal life. The thousand years represents the New Testament Era. At the end of the "1,000 years", shortly before the End, Satan will be realeased from the chains of the gospel which bind him now, and he will once more be able to decieve the nations as he did in ancient times. After Satan's short "reign" once more, all will seem lost to the Church, but Christ will return as he promised and prove once and for all that he has conquered death, Satan, and hell. Then those in the Book of Life will join Christ in paradise, but those whom rejected God will spend eternity in sepearation from Him.

Our interpretation is similar to historic, but it is actually called Idealist, because there ARE significant differences.

The only "Rapture," will be the Second Coming, so I don't know about all those pretrib et al definitions

Does that answer your question now?

From what I understand of the RC's view, they believe the 2nd advent happens AFTER the 1000yr period.
I find that a rather "odd" view myself. What are the Lutherans view?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7348339/#post51179593
Catholic view of the end-times

I see that on our profiles at CF, we get to choose our 'endtimes' views. Which one is Catholic? I'm having some trouble figuring it out...

I know that the Church teaches Amilleninialism - which I put in bold. What about the other ones? Is it... historic, preterist, or futurist? Pretribulation, midtribulationm, posttribulation? hmm...

aren't we partial preterists?? (but here they don't make the distinction between 'full' and 'partial')