How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[chestertonrules]

otan de elqh ekeinoV to pneuma thV alhqeiaV odhghsei umaV eiV pasan thn alhqeian ou gar lalhsei af eautou all osa an akoush lalhsei kai ta ercomena anaggelei umin

Great. Get it in the mail.

Make sure to include some of Squint and Otto's posts so the Holy Father can witness my trials and tribulations for the faith.

Thanks!

 

[Hentenza]

The Church was based in Jerusalem at the time.

Yep!!

That is irrelevant. The location of the Church has nothing to do with its authority.

Exactly. The Christian church is everywhere.

What is relevant is that the Christians at Antioch didn't split and they didn't just make up their own doctrine.

Where does it say that they were splitting? The issue is one of false teachers. Please read the verses in context.

They consulted the leaders of the Church who were authorized by Jesus to issue a statement of truth.

Yes and no. They consulted with the apostles who were taught by Jesus His gospel. The apostles had the truth as revealed by Jesus himself. The authority comes from the word of God not from fallible men.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Great. Get it in the mail.

Make sure to include some of Squint and Otto's posts so the Holy Father can witness my trials and tribulations for the faith.

Thanks!

He may need an Orthodox there to translate it for him

 

[squint]

Great. Get it in the mail.

Make sure to include some of Squint and Otto's posts so the Holy Father can witness my trials and tribulations for the faith.

Thanks!

Yeah, I'm sure the Pope will want to insure you against squints promotions to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Bad mojo there 4 sure!

 

[chestertonrules]

Yep!!


Exactly. The Christian church is everywhere.



Where does it say that they were splitting? The issue is one of false teachers. Please read the verses in context.



Yes and no. They consulted with the apostles who were taught by Jesus His gospel. The apostles had the truth as revealed by Jesus himself. The authority comes from the word of God not from fallible men.

The word of God didn't exist in written form at the time.

The Church is not fallible because it is guided by the Holy Spirit. All men are fallible.

The problem was caused by those teaching with apostolic authority.

It was solved by apostolic authority.

 

[katholikos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhAyEZR4gUk

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Katholikos,,,,please remove the u tube video. We are not talking about conversions or prosylizing denominations...Start your own thread on that...thks

 

[katholikos]

Katholikos,,,,please remove the u tube video. We are not talking about conversions or prosylizing denominations...Start your own thread on that...thks

i will not

 

[Christ+a]

Does this household believe that abortion is OK with God? no. it's is the taking of innocent lives = murder

Does this household believe in infant baptism? it believes in repentance and being born-again

Does this household believe once saved always saved? it believes that adoption is a legal and insoluble act initiated and upheld by the Parent.

Does this household believe that the real body and blood of Christ are present in the Eucharist? it believes that Christ died once and for all, the ultimate sacrifice and is now seated at the right hand of the Father



Whose household is this? Is it one as Jesus and the Father are one?

yes, as it is HIS Spirit that makes this household one moment a person gets added by being born again of the Spirit and adopted into the family of God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i will not

Then I will report it since you failed to honor a respectful request I made.

edit to add.....nm, I am sure the mods are busy enough these days....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yep!!


Exactly. The Christian church is everywhere.

Where does it say that they were splitting? The issue is one of false teachers. Please read the verses in context.

Yes and no. They consulted with the apostles who were taught by Jesus His gospel. The apostles had the truth as revealed by Jesus himself. The authority comes from the word of God not from fallible men.

 

[Hentenza]

The word of God didn't exist in written form at the time.

Exactly. If you notice from Acts 15 Paul, the NT writer responsible for most of it, was still alive. The word of God was fully written down by the end of the 1st century but quite a bit of it including the synoptics were circulating the churches a lot earlier. It is perfectly natural for new churches to seek the advice of the apostles then.

The Church is not fallible because it is guided by the Holy Spirit. All men are fallible.

We have a fundamental difference as to what composes the church. Biblically the church is the body of believers which are not infallible, however, are guided by the Holy Spirit. Just like your church, some will listen to the HS and some will not.

The problem was caused by those teaching with apostolic authority.

No. That is not what the verses say. The problem was with those attempting to preach the law versus the gospel.

It was solved by apostolic authority.

The apostolic authority ended when they died and the NT was fully written. That is why they wrote it.

 

[Albion]

At a glance, the picture seems to be of the Pope proudly showing something to the head of a Masonic lodge.

 

[Albion]

The word of God didn't exist in written form at the time.

Most of it did.

The problem was caused by those teaching with apostolic authority.

It was solved by apostolic authority.

Well, that's one theory. I don't know how it settles anything for us today, however.

But, I still think that the reconciliation of the various branches of Christ's church is what we ought to be addressing, not merely airing our doctrinal differences. We KNOW that they exist. Question is, how can we draw closer together despite that.

Weren't we going to look into any possibilities of moving us all in that direction?

 

[archierieus]

But, I still think that the reconciliation of the various branches of Christ's church is what we ought to be addressing, not merely airing our doctrinal differences. We KNOW that they exist. Question is, how can we draw closer together despite that.

Weren't we going to look into any possibilities of moving us all in that direction?

Along that line, I really appreciate the efforts of our forum administrator, Hentenza, to help steer the discussion in that direction. Part of making that work is addressing some of the issues which have been brought up, and that has been done with diplomacy and skill. And I appreciate, also, the civil direction this discussion is going now. Yes, there are differences in points of view and belief. But I see less of the 'h' epithet! Less name-calling and settling down to look at the issues. Good progress, I would say.

Now, could you summarize what you see as potential common ground for the parties, Albion? And, what can be done to help us all affirm each other and validate each one's Christian experience and practice?

Dave

 

[ARBITER01]

Along that line, I really appreciate the efforts of our forum administrator, Hentenza, to help steer the discussion in that direction. Part of making that work is addressing some of the issues which have been brought up, and that has been done with diplomacy and skill. And I appreciate, also, the civil direction this discussion is going now. Yes, there are differences in points of view and belief. But I see less of the 'h' epithet! Less name-calling and settling down to look at the issues. Good progress, I would say.

Now, could you summarize what you see as potential common ground for the parties, Albion? And, what can be done to help us all affirm each other and validate each one's Christian experience and practice?

Dave

I should clarify something here since it seems to be misunderstood for some reason.

Unity of the faith is GOD's responsibility, not ours, we can do nothing. Our responsibility is to be conformed to the image of HIS Son, and to do GOD's will. This is important because we each are responsible for our own salvation and each have a race to run with endurance.

Only GOD can sort out the tares from the wheat and the goats from the sheep, we cannot. Trying to find common ground for reconciling amongst church's is a humanistic endeavor at best, and it still does nothing in the way of actually fixing the problem of who is born again and who is not.

GOD's actions through Jesus is what caused people to believe Him and trust in Him as a prophet, and GOD is to be doing HIS actions through us also, as we are the representative body of Jesus down here now.

If something is going to be fixed, it will be GOD doing the fixing. There will be divisions to show who is approved and who is not, it is quite biblical. Jesus brought a sword for that division in the first place.

 

[archierieus]

If something is going to be fixed, it will be GOD doing the fixing. There will be divisions to show who is approved and who is not, it is quite biblical. Jesus brought a sword for that division in the first place.

The sword of the word divides between believers and unbelievers. But as for believers, which are what is on this GT forum, Jesus' prayer was "that they may all be one, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me." (Jn. 17) That is how important unity is. And the bickering, accusing and the like are NOT a good witness to those looking on!

Dave

 

[ARBITER01]

The sword of the word divides between believers and unbelievers. But as for believers, which are what is on this GT forum, Jesus' prayer was "that they may all be one, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me." (Jn. 17) That is how important unity is. And the bickering, accusing and the like are NOT a good witness to those looking on!

Dave

I'm sorry, but I don't make such an assumption and just think everyone is my brother and sister in Christ, neither do many others who know better, and the ones who are born again are already one with GOD.

You want to get rid of the problems, get rid of the GT forum, elsewise there will continue to be division between born again and non-born again claiming to be born-again.

 

[archierieus]

I believe the Bible teaches to assume the best about others who profess the name of Christ, and to 'judge not that ye be not judged.' (Mt. 6) I believe that Jesus looked for the good in people, and sought to strengthen that, and that most of us have SOME good in us, which should be encouraged--as Wm. Seward worded it (speech-writing for A. Lincoln) "the better angels of our nature". Focus on that, rather than on the negative.

Dave

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules;You mean in your fallible interpretation, right?

Thanks, but don't be so impressed, bro.

Let's see what we get from a more divine source!

You mean from your interpretation of a more divine source?

Acts 6
They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. 6They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

LOL, you can't be serious, Chez. They (the community, not the apostles)were choosin' waiters, not priests! LOL
Read just a tiny bit more of the whole thing;
2: Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3: Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4: But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5: And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
6: Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

Not realy clear who laid hands, or who prayed, the "multitude" or the apostles, but one thing is for sure,... it wasn't for priestly duty, their ministry was food service, Chez.

Acts 13
1In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

The only work to which the rest of the whole chapter refers to about what they were sent off to do, is preaching the gospel. No sacrament is mentioned. Miracles worked, but no priestly duties mentioned.

Acts 14

23Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.

Refresh me on the list of the duties of elders, please. I can't seem to connect them with sacraments except in my imagination.

Acts 15

23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

That doesn't establish an authorization as necessary, it just clarifies that the troublemakers weren't one of Paul's people.
It is OK for preaching to be unauthorized:
Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50: And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.