How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[archierieus]

can pre-reformation Church folks utilize what they received ?

I would expect that any Christian could utilize or share. But if people come here with a subversive agenda, not recognizing those in other communions as legitimate faiths, but out to undermine same and to proselytize, then how does that make for fellowship?

 

[chestertonrules]

What I wrote was that no one SAY it, even if we each may think it.

Why say anything?

The reason that Christianity isn't united is that Christians disagree on many central points of faith.

Without discussing these points, we won't move any closer to unity.

 

[Rick Otto]

can pre-reformation Church folks utilize what they received ?

Yeah, but you might get a memo.

 

[Rick Otto]

civil discussion is unity enough for me.
And in spite of your big ears, long nose & severe underbite, we've managed not to come to death grips, hey Chez?

 

[chestertonrules]

I actualy don't have a problem with this as I consider it to be the reality of what happens anyway, whether we consciously intend it or not.
I appreciate Chez bein' up front about it.
It kinda blows his cover, tho. lol
...But I think he & I both prefer our reality a little on the stark side, in sharp focus.

 

[Mikeb85]

If I remember correctly, the Orthodox believe it was the RCC that broke away from orthodoxy, correct?

Correct. The historical record also supports that conclusion. At the time of the schism there were 5 Patriarchates. After the schism there were still 4 (all 4 of which are still Orthodox today). Rome was the only Patriarchate that left the church...

 

[Thekla]

I would expect that any Christian could utilize or share. But if people come here with a subversive agenda, not recognizing those in other communions as legitimate faiths, but out to undermine same and to proselytize, then how does that make for fellowship?

As described before, the utilization of scripture as the "sole measure" is a feature of post-reformation gathered Churches. Is it acceptable for folks from pre-reformation gathered Churches to appeal to their own standards as received just like post-reformation Churches can appeal to their own standards ?

 

[archierieus]

Why say anything?

The reason that Christianity isn't united is that Christians disagree on many central points of faith.

Without discussing these points, we won't move any closer to unity.

Except, Chesterton, you have make it quite clear that to you, 'unity' means the rest of us becoming Roman Catholics. That is your stated intent. That is not 'unity,' nor does it appear to be respecting others' faith choices and religious practice. Such a viewpoint seems to be de-legitimizing other communions. That would be a personal concern of mine.

 

[katholikos]

I would expect that any Christian could utilize or share. But if people come here with a subversive agenda, not recognizing those in other communions as legitimate faiths, but out to undermine same and to proselytize, then how does that make for fellowship?

If someone wants to share what they think is the truth, and someone wants to bring others into that truth, that is not subversive from their POV.

So-called protestant missionaries do it all the time, going into Catholic countries in Central and South America to bring the Gospel to people that are already Catholic. They call that "missionary" work. LOL

 

[squint]

A few, yes.

So, it's an insult to uphold an RCC member promoting loving our neighbors as ourselves? lol

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Except, Chesterton, you have make it quite clear that to you, 'unity' means the rest of us becoming Roman Catholics. That is your stated intent. That is not 'unity,' nor does it appear to be respecting others' faith choices and religious practice. Such a viewpoint seems to be de-legitimizing other communions. That would be a personal concern of mine.

QFT

 

[Rick Otto]

As described before, the utilization of scripture as the "sole measure" is a feature of post-reformation gathered Churches. Is it acceptable for folks from pre-reformation gathered Churches to appeal to their own standards as received just like post-reformation Churches can appeal to their own standards ?

Of course it's acceptable, but don't expect acceptance.
We need to learn how to agree to disagree better.

 

[chestertonrules]

Except, Chesterton, you have make it quite clear that to you, 'unity' means the rest of us becoming Roman Catholics. That is your stated intent. quote]

Exactly. Not only that, but I believe Christain unity is ONLY possible in the Catholic Church under the teaching authority of the Pope and the magisterium.

Without this authority, doctrinal chaos is the only possible outcome.

We must trust that Jesus is indeed leading US(all of us as one) into all Truth.

If the Truth is in dispute, then we know that this cannot be the case.

 

[archierieus]

As described before, the utilization of scripture as the "sole measure" is a feature of post-reformation gathered Churches. Is it acceptable for folks from pre-reformation gathered Churches to appeal to their own standards as received just like post-reformation Churches can appeal to their own standards ?

I would imagine that within the parameters of the forum rules, a person may refer to whatever standards are chosen. However, those who believe in Scripture as final authority may not find such other standards persuasive. Depends on the intent in sharing and discussing . . . is it to share ideas or is it to persuade? Personally, I am interested in developing a clearer understanding of truth. The Bible is the final authority for me, and anything presented will be evaluated by this student on the basis of the Bible. (which doesn't include the Apocrypha, for this believer)

 

[Albion]

Why say anything?

Exactly. (But it has been done, so that's why I suggested we cut it out)

The reason that Christianity isn't united is that Christians disagree on many central points of faith.

I think we all know that.

Without discussing these points, we won't move any closer to unity

If you are assuming that you can show the other side that its beliefs are all wrong through posting comments on a discussion board, we have a million threads here demonstrating that that isn't going to work.

That doesn't mean that approaching any doctrinal matter with a suggestion for overcoming differences -- but not including forcing one side or the other to admit to having being against Jesus or stupid -- is out of bounds. It would also take a lot of tact.

 

[Mikeb85]

So-called protestant missionaries do it all the time, going into Catholic countries in Central and South America to bring the Gospel to people that are already Catholic. They call that "missionary" work. LOL

And Roman Catholic Uniates do it all the time, proselytizing in Orthodox countries...

http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2008...es-is-a-barrier-to-dialogue-with-the-vatican/

“For some time, there have been a number of unresolved problems in our relations [with the Vatican]. The problems include, first of all, the unresolved conflict between Orthodox and Uniates in the Western Ukraine, and the unjustified expansion of Uniate proselytism into traditionally-Orthodox regions”, Vladyki Kirill said in an interview on the official website of the Archpastoral Council.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Except, Chesterton, you have make it quite clear that to you, 'unity' means the rest of us becoming Roman Catholics. That is your stated intent. quote]

Exactly. Not only that, but I believe Christain unity is ONLY possible in the Catholic Church under the teaching authority of the Pope and the magisterium.

Without this authority, doctrinal chaos is the only possible outcome.

We must trust that Jesus is indeed leading US(all of us as one) into all Truth.

If the Truth is in dispute, then we know that this cannot be the case.

And there again the Steel Wall you have once again erected........

 

[chestertonrules]

Exactly. (But it has been done, so that's why I suggested we cut it out)


I think we all know that.


If you are assuming that you can show the other side that its beliefs are all wrong through posting comments on a discussion board, we have a million threads here demonstrating that that isn't going to work.

That doesn't mean that approaching any doctrinal matter with a suggestion for overcoming differences -- but not including forcing one side or the other to admit to having being against Jesus or stupid -- is out of bounds. It would also take a lot of tact.

Conversions happen for many reasons. New knowledge is one of these reasons.

It might take years sometimes, but that's not really the point.

 

[archierieus]

Except, Chesterton, you have make it quite clear that to you, 'unity' means the rest of us becoming Roman Catholics. That is your stated intent. quote]

Exactly. Not only that, but I believe Christain unity is ONLY possible in the Catholic Church under the teaching authority of the Pope and the magisterium.

So that is your stated agenda. I don't see that as real unity. Nor could I possibly consider such an option because of the plain teaching of Scripture, compared with which certain of the doctrines and practices of the Roman rite do not appear valid.

Without this authority, doctrinal chaos is the only possible outcome.

We must trust that Jesus is indeed leading US(all of us as one) into all truth.

Man's authority was never intended to be substituted for that of the Holy Spirit. In Jn. 16, Jesus promised the Spirit of truth to lead His people into 'all truth.' Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers can help edify, but they are all subject to the Bible and their teaching are to be tested by the Bible.

 

[Hentenza]

Exactly. Not only that, but I believe Christain unity is ONLY possible in the Catholic Church under the teaching authority of the Pope and the magisterium.

Without this authority, doctrinal chaos is the only possible outcome.

We must trust that Jesus is indeed leading US(all of us as one) into all Truth.

If the Truth is in dispute, then we know that this cannot be the case.

Will not happen. Other than the RC, no other church will recognize the Pope or the magisterium. I much rather see the RC return to the biblical model and demote the Pope to bishop of Rome only.