Which creation do creationists want us to believe took place?

[juvenissun]

I will treat you with respect when you make a post deserving of it. Until you actually engage in a discussion, I have no reason to present you with any respect at all.

After all, your entire method of discussion is horribly dishonest, hypocritical, and vacuous. You are still doing nothing more than presenting bald assertion after bald assertion. You provide no reasoning, no evidence whatsoever. And yet you claim to be "teaching", and you claim that if we "ask nicely" we'll get answers.

You cannot demand respect or decency when you show none yourself.

OK, based on what you said above, I will NOT try to waste of your time again.

 

[consol]

Noah lived in what is now New Jersey?

AV is right, I remember reading somewhere that Noah had a sister living in the Bronx,
written be another nut no doubt.

 

[juvenissun]

Originally Posted by juvenissun

So, is it possible for them to have an idea about the north pole?
If you think they could, then where would be the most likely place for them to take as the north pole?

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The Hebrews of this time period only knew of a small part of the entire world. This small part was their concept of "the world."

I don't think so. My question is reasonable based on what you said.
Repeat:
If their "world" is what you described, then would they have the idea of the "north pole" of the "world". If yes, how would they describe it?

 

[Split Rock]

I don't think so. My question is reasonable based on what you said.
Repeat:
If their "world" is what you described, then would they have the idea of the "north pole" of the "world". If yes, how would they describe it?

OK. I don't think they had such a concept... though I could be wrong.

 

[Chalnoth]

OK, based on what you said above, I will NOT try to waste of your time again.

Disappointing. I was hoping, futilely, apparently, that you would actually engage in discussion for once. Oh, well.

 

[Chalnoth]

OK. I don't think they had such a concept... though I could be wrong.

Eh, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they noticed that the stars seemed to rotate about a fixed point. Astronomy was, after all, a very common discipline among ancient civilizations.

Edit: Or, alternatively, just a direction perpendicular to east/west where the Sun comes from/goes to.

 

[juvenissun]

As you see, "North" is really just a man made waypoint in order for us to navigate. Though Earth does have an axis, the current north star (Polaris) has not always been the north star.

No. North on the earth is a natural feature. We simplified this feature to call it the geographic north.

I do not know if ancient Israelis used a compass (I guess not at 2000 B.C.). If not, they would not have the idea on what north is. In other words, they do not express the idea of north by the word north as we understand it today.

I mentioned this only to respond to your "small world" comment. If their world is small (local), then would they even describe what the north is? If they did, what would they say?

 

[juvenissun]

OK. I don't think they had such a concept... though I could be wrong.

Yes, you are wrong. Not only they have the concept of North, they described it even better than what we can do now (at the high school level, at least).

Well, my point is that even they did not see much land of this world at that time, for an unknown reason, they did express idea that is beyond the scope on what they can physically observe. So the map argument is not a good one.

 

[AV1611VET]

When did you show that? I must have missed it.

QV please.

 

[Chalnoth]

Since it's so easy to just use landmarks for directions, it seems plausible to me that the use of directions like North, South, East, and West only became significant in seafaring cultures, which the Israelis were not. But then, neither was anybody else 2000 years ago.

But that doesn't mean that scholars of the day wouldn't have known about at least some of the features that point north, such as a compass or the fact that the stars revolve around a single point in the sky.

 

[juvenissun]

Disappointing. I was hoping, futilely, apparently, that you would actually engage in discussion for once. Oh, well.

Even now, you are still wrong.

According to you, I never made a single meaningful explanation. So what to disappoint about?

 

[Split Rock]

Yes, you are wrong. Not only they have the concept of North, they described it even better than what we can do now (at the high school level, at least).

Do you have any references to back this assertion up? Were they familiar with compasses and "magnetic north?" If not, then no, they were not familiar with "north." In addition, you asked if they were familiar with the concept of "the north pole." This is not the same as "north," or magnetic "north."

Well, my point is that even they did not see much land of this world at that time, for an unknown reason, they did express idea that is beyond the scope on what they can physically observe. So the map argument is not a good one.

I think it is still a good one, even if they understood a concept such as magnetic north. Their "world" was still smaller than the globe. Not only would they not have known whether or not Australia and the New World were flooded by their God, it would not have mattered much to them or to the theological points they were trying to make.

 

[Chalnoth]

Even now, you are still wrong.

According to you, I never made a single meaningful explanation. So what to disappoint about?

I don't know what's worse. You not being willing to provide any explanation for your assertions, or thinking that you actually have. Of course, you started to in a couple of posts. But you never provided a full explanation for any of your assertions.

 

[Split Rock]

QV please.

Here are my speculations on the Ark, as delineated in one of my earlier threads:
The Ark was built where Noah lived --- North America.

What is this based on? You still have not answered this question with this link.

It took 120 years to build.

What is this based on? Genesis 6 makes no mention of such a timeframe.

It was not a ship or a boat; it was a containment vessel.

OK.

God miraculously fed the animals the same way He fed the widow and her son in 1 Kings 17.

Yet, God commanded Noah In Gen 6 to gather "all food that is eaten" for both Noah and his family, and the animals "and it shall be food for thee, and for them." Why have him do this, if God was to magically feed all the animals?

The amount of water that was used to execute this judgment should not be a matter of controversy; as God could have sent ten times that amount if He wanted to.

This is fine, as long as it is described as a "miracle."

Evidence for this Flood would be near impossible to find, as God Himself cleaned up the mess.

So you continue to assert. Where is the support for this assertion?

 

[AV1611VET]

What is this based on? You still have not answered this question with this link.

Did you actually go there and browse? If you did, you'll see I used a Wikipedia article as backup.

What is this based on? Genesis 6 makes no mention of such a timeframe.

On this:

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

...

Yet, God commanded Noah In Gen 6 to gather "all food that is eaten" for both Noah and his family, and the animals "and it shall be food for thee, and for them." Why have him do this, if God was to magically feed all the animals?

Again, did you read the Bible verse I supplied?

So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, the widow woman was there gathering of sticks: and he called to her, and said, Fetch me, I pray thee, a little water in a vessel, that I may drink.

Why did Elijah ask for water? And if you actually knew the story, you'd know that he called for the cruse of oil that God miraculously (not "magically") supplied. Sometimes we are given a simple chore to perform, and God does the rest. Why do you think they marched a total of 13 times around Jericho? For the exercise?

This is fine, as long as it is described as a "miracle."

What? You need to be told the difference between a miracle and a scientific phenomenon generated by cause-and-effect? You don't know the difference?

So you continue to assert. Where is the support for this assertion?

From science --- if He didn't clean it up --- show me the evidence. And until you do, I'll agree with you guys that there is none. Simple, eh?

 

[thaumaturgy]

AV is right, I remember reading somewhere that Noah had a sister living in the Bronx....

Nah, surely Noah's sister would have lived in Spring Valley up in Rockland County just north of Jersey. As I recall there used to be a relatively large Hasidic community there.

Now granted it would be quite a haul if Noah lived down in Cape May, but if he and the wife and kids were living in Fort Lee it would be a quick hop, skip and a jump up the Palisades Parkway then west on I-87 then over onto rt 59.

Nice area. Too bad he wound up way over in Turkey after the flood receded. There was a not half-bad deli in New City. The Nanuet Mall wasn't bad either.

I miss the "Holy Land". But it's awfully expensive.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yup --- make your jokes --- then later you'll wonder why you don't know anything.

 

[Split Rock]

Did you actually go there and browse? If you did, you'll see I used a Wikipedia article as backup.

There was nothing from Wikipedia in the link you QV'ed. But let me guess... the wikipedia link is based on "junk science," made up by Godless "scienticks" right? Why should you believe any of that "junk science?" I love the way you pick and choose from "science" and call what you like "real science" and what you don't like "junk science."

On this:...Again, did you read the Bible verse I supplied?.

What does this have to do with how long it took to build the ark?

Why did Elijah ask for water? And if you actually knew the story, you'd know that he called for the cruse of oil that God miraculously (not "magically") supplied. Sometimes we are given a simple chore to perform, and God does the rest. Why do you think they marched a total of 13 times around Jericho? For the exercise?

What does this have to do with gathering food for the animals on the ark? Your quote shows only that God could have magicked up food for the animals if He wanted to... not that He did so.

What? You need to be told the difference between a miracle and a scientific phenomenon generated by cause-and-effect?

No. I was just emphasizing I would agree with the previso it was a miracle. Many of your compatriots would insist science could provide evidence for it, as you know.

You don't know the difference?From science --- if He didn't clean it up --- show me the evidence. And until you do, I'll agree with you guys that there is none. Simple, eh?

Not so simple. If the Flood was a non-catastrophic type, as described by scripture, it would not have needed much cleaning up in the first place. For most creationists, however, The Flood altered the landscape and created canyons, mountains, impact craters, etc. For them, there was no clean up... just a strange lack of evidence that this was all do to a single flood event.

 

[AV1611VET]

/thread

 

[Split Rock]

/thread

Once again you run away instead of backing up your assertions. You are a great Creationist.

Bye-Bye!