Peter Is Not The Rock!

[lionroar0]

So is Peter the rock Jesus referred to or not?

No comment

lol

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Wanna make a thread on that?

Sounds good too me.

Peace

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No comment

lol

Peace

Then I suppose we can just close the thread I have an interesting one here

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7245442
The "lambkin" in Revelation and John 21 question

1 John 2:22 Who-any is the Falsifier except the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) that Jesus not is the Christ, this-one is the anti-christ/anti-cristoV <500>, the one denying/arnou-menoV <720> (5740) the Father and the Son.

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin/denied-one?/arnion <721> standing, as having been slaughtered

 

[archierieus]

The parable is about changing from the rags into the wedding garments. Not wearing the wedding garments over the rags.

My understanding is that it was a Jewish custom to have a special 'garment' for the wedding, and that it was given to the guests as they arrived--particularly since a pretty general invitation went out in this case. I had understood they put it on over their regular clothes (though I'm sure not over their outer 'cloak'.) But whether or not they put it over, or changed into it, it was not a garment of their making, their effort or their devising. It was given to them.

Dave

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

My understanding is that it was a Jewish custom to have a special 'garment' for the wedding, and that it was given to the guests as they arrived--particularly since a pretty general invitation went out in this case. I had understood they put it on over their regular clothes (though I'm sure not over their outer 'cloak'.) But whether or not they put it over, or changed into it, it was not a garment of their making, their effort or their devising. It was given to them.

Dave

That greek used for "clothed" is interesting as it can also imply "in-slipped". Notice the word used in 2 Timo 3

Luke 16:19 A certain Man was rich and in-clothed/en-edidu-sketo <1737> (5710) purple and fine-linen.busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly

Matthew 22:11 And into coming yet the King, to gaze of the ones the reclining at table, he saw there a Man not in-clothed/en-dedu-menon <1746> (5765) cothing/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast:

2 Timothy 3:6 For out of these are ones in-slipping/en-dunonteV <1744> into the homes and leading into captivity little-women having been heaped/seswreumena <4987> (5772) to sins being led to various lusts

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Now look at the different greek word used for "clothed" of the 2 different type of Women in Revelation.

Revelation 12:1 And Sign, great was seen in the heaven a Woman having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) the sun and the moon underneath of the feet of her

Reve 17:4 And the Woman was having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) purple and scarlet and having been gilded to gold and stone, precious, and pearls, having drinkcup, golden, in the hand of her being replete/brimming of abominations and the uncleannesses of the prostitution of her

 

[archierieus]

Excellent word study, LLoJ. Thanks for sharing that!

Dave

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Excellent word study, LLoJ. Thanks for sharing that!

Dave

That greek word for "abyss" is also interesting. The only difference in that greek word used for the "rich-man" in Luke 16:19 is there is no letter "a" before it. That is why I like looking at the Greek so much so to better harmonize the Bible.

Luke 8:31 And they entreated Him that no He should be enjoining to them into the abyss/abusson <12> to be coming away.

Luke 16:19 A certain Man was rich and clothed/enedidu-sketo <1737> (5710) purple/porfuran <4209> and fine-linen/busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly

Reve 11:7 `And whenever they should be finishing the testimony of them, the beast, the one ascending out of the Abyss/abussou <12>, shall be doing with them battle, and shall be conquering them, and he shall be killing them,

 

[bbbbbbb]

Darn your funny.

Salvation means perfect judgement(sp?)

Does any on earth other then God poses perfect judgement?

I would like to know?

The Church prays for ALLl souls in purgatory 24/7/365

By the Mass and also through the Lecto Divina and through individual members that do it out of part of some personal devotion or other.

Peace

Please provide the source for your definition of salvation.

Here is what dictionary.com has:

sal·va·tion

/sæl&#712;ve&#618;

&#643;&#601;n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sal-vey-shuh

n] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the act of saving or protecting from harm, risk, loss, destruction, etc. 2.the state of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc. 3.a source, cause, or means of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc. 4.Theology. deliverance from the power and penalty of sin; redemption.
[Origin: 1175–1225; ME salvatio(u)n < LL salv&#257;ti&#333;n- (s. of salv&#257;ti&#333;), equiv. to salv&#257;t(us) (ptp. of salv&#257;re to save1; see -ate1) + -i&#333;n- -ion; r. ME sa(u)vaciun, sauvacion < OF sauvacion < LL, as above

]

I do not see anything about perfect judgment here.


My post was about the absolute lack of assurance of salvation in the Catholic church. Please provide any citations showing that the Catholic church provides complete assurance of salvation to anyone.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So what happened to Peter on this thread

 

[bbbbbbb]

So what happened to Peter on this thread

Peter who? I think he died some time ago.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Peter who? I think he died some time ago.

Oh. That makes sense then.

 

[Zoness]

More importantly where did the talk of rocks go? As a fan of geology I must protest this.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

More importantly where did the talk of rocks go? As a fan of geology I must protest this.

Ok I got one for ya. Why does Luke and Hosea say "mountains and hills" while Reve 6:16 says "mountains and rocks"

Luke 23:30 "Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the Mountains 'be falling upon us' and to the Hills 'cover us'". [Hosea 10:8/Reve 6:16]

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the Mountains and to the Rocks/petraiV <4073>: 'Be falling on us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb-kin" [Hosea 10:8/Luke 23:30]

 

[Zoness]

Ok I got one for ya. Why does Luke and Hosea say "mountains and hills" while Reve 6:16 says "mountains and rocks"

Luke 23:30 "Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the Mountains 'be falling upon us' and to the Hills 'cover us'". [Hosea 10:8/Reve 6:16]

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the Mountains and to the Rocks/petraiV <4073>: 'Be falling on us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb-kin" [Hosea 10:8/Luke 23:30]

Doesn't have to be geological in meaning but maybe if it was the authors just assumed that hills were made of rocks? I wouldn't doubt that considering the logic of the time: 'well mountains are big and rocky and have stuff growing on them so hills must be the same!'

Or maybe they just used different words, the Bible may be divinely inspired but it was penned by humans.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Doesn't have to be geological in meaning but maybe if it was the authors just assumed that hills were made of rocks? I wouldn't doubt that considering the logic of the time: 'well mountains are big and rocky and have stuff growing on them so hills must be the same!'

Or maybe they just used different words, the Bible may be divinely inspired but it was penned by humans.

Yeah. It doesn't help much that "hills" are only used 2 times in the NT. Both in Luke. Pretty odd greek word used for them also and I hope to maybe see if there is some kind of symbolism in it.

Luke 3:5 Every ravine shall be being filled and every Mountain and Hill/bounoV <1015> shall be being made low and shall be the crookeds into straight and the roughs made into ways smooth.[Isaiah 40:4]

Luke 23:30 "Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the mountains 'be falling upon us' and to the hills/bounoiV <1015>
'cover us'". [Hosea 10:8/Reve 6:16]

1015. bounos boo-nos' probably of foreign origin; a hillock:--hill [Used only 2 times in NT: Luke 3:5 and Luke 23:30]

1012. boule boo-lay' from 1014; volition, i.e. (objectively) advice, or (by implication) purpose:--+ advise, counsel, will.
1013. boulema boo'-lay-mah from 1014; a resolve:--purpose, will.
1014. boulomai boo'-lom-ahee middle voice of a primary verb; to "will," i.e. (reflexively) be willing:--be disposed, minded, intend, list, (be, of own) will (-ing). Compare 2309.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So is Peter the rock Jesus referred to or not?

Yes.

 

[MamaZ]

Yes.

So the church is built on a dead man?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So the church is built on a dead man?

His body is dead but he is alive in Heaven.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

His body is dead but he is alive in Heaven.

Greetings. Do ya think him and the other Apostles [excpet "judas" I would think] are still on thrones judging the Jews?

Matthew 19:28 The yet Jesus said to them, "Amen I am saying to ye, that ye the ones-following to Me in the again-generation/paliggenesia <3824> whenever should be seating the Son of the Man upon a throne of glory of Him shall be sitting also ye on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of the Israel. [Luke 22/Reve 20]