Teen nudism: your opinion.

[Washington]

Several Biblical passages imply that nudity should be avoided.

Isa. 47:3;
Your nakedness shall be uncovered,
Yes, your shame will be seen;
I will take vengeance,
And I will not arbitrate with a man.”

Ezek. 16:7-8;
7I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare.
8 “When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine,” says the Lord GOD.
​

That it is a state associated with shame and embarrassment. In fact, HERE is a whole article on the evils of nudity in which its author says:

"I am affirming that "Social nudism is condemned by the Bible as sinful." Just what is social nudism? That is defined in the debate agreement as "Men and women (both married and unmarried) and their children being together completely naked for non-sexual social and recreational purposes."

"Social nudism is wrong because it can provoke lust."
​

But please take a look at the following. The pictures below were taken at a teen dance, most likely at a nudist resort.


Please note that the two photos showing teenagers at a dance while nude, and its linked source, have been removed by a moderator---hopefully, just temporarily. (Washington)


Be warned that the source contains images of uncensored adult and child nudity.

From what I can tell, this activity and the other mixed-gender activities depicted on the web site, are quite innocent in nature; lacking both shame and embarrassment, and any indication of mounting lust.

My question---which I admittedly have biased by the images above---is: Despite what may be interpreted from the Bible can nudity be an accepted practice in a modern culture, even among its developing youth?

 

[silverberry]

Why don't you take a seat over there...

 

[Verv]

Yeah, I stand against nudism by and large. Not only could it provoke lust to some degree but more than that... I just think most people do not want to walk around naked all the time.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Yeah, I stand against nudism by and large. Not only could it provoke lust to some degree but more than that...

Have you ever asked nudists if they experience these provocations? Have you looked at relevant statistics for nudist communities?

I just think most people do not want to walk around naked all the time.

I don't think anyone has suggested mandatory nudity.

 

[cantata]

Yeah, I stand against nudism by and large. Not only could it provoke lust to some degree

I think the less nudity is associated with sex, the less lust it will provoke. Do you think that the women in remote tribes in parts of Africa who tend to go topless are forever being ogled by the men? Or do you think that their attitude that breasts are not particularly or uniquely sexual means that naked breasts are not particularly noteworthy?

Also, as TeddyKGB asked, have you actually checked any statistics?

but more than that... I just think most people do not want to walk around naked all the time.

So? Nudists do want to walk around naked. That's why they're nudists.

I don't see any problem with non-abusive nudity amongst children or adults. Until I was eight or nine, I wandered around the house naked. I got shyer as I got older. But I actually think that nudity and a positive body image are good things for children and young people, especially as a counter to the obsessive dieting and self-deprecation that is so common among teenagers in the West.

 

[Verv]

I really do not see any need to change the way that our society is... I've never just said, "Hey, how about people start walking around nude?" It seems unnecessary.

I've never really looked into the issue because it is ridiculous.

Of course, if we lived in a society where everyone was naked all the time then the issue would be different.But here is a fact: We don't live in that society, and for women to walk around naked would prevoke lustful thoughts in people and be generally distracting, causing a big scene. I do not think most people want to be going to the movies with their 12 year old to be greeted by hair arm pitted naked feminists.

It's just unnecessary.

You got your beaches, perhaps you need more; you got your private resorts and you can do it I guess in your own way here and there and I will gladly shake your hand and help you fight for any right you are deprived of in your efforts to be nude by yourself or on your little plot of land, but other than that...

Why?

Why is this important or necessary or something that people should even take time out of their day to contemplate?

Guys, I like to chew tobacco a lot... I think you need to put spittoons in every public establishment because I don't like spitting into ash trays and sometimes I cut my fingers when I turn pop cans into spittoons.

Can I get some help, guys?

 

[Verv]

I really do not see any need to change the way that our society is... I've never just said, "Hey, how about people start walking around nude?" It seems unnecessary.

I've never really looked into the issue because it is ridiculous.

Of course, if we lived in a society where everyone was naked all the time then the issue would be different.But here is a fact: We don't live in that society, and for women to walk around naked would prevoke lustful thoughts in people and be generally distracting, causing a big scene. I do not think most people want to be going to the movies with their 12 year old to be greeted by hair arm pitted naked feminists.

It's just unnecessary.

You got your beaches, perhaps you need more; you got your private resorts and you can do it I guess in your own way here and there and I will gladly shake your hand and help you fight for any right you are deprived of in your efforts to be nude by yourself or on your little plot of land, but other than that...

Why?

Why is this important or necessary or something that people should even take time out of their day to contemplate?

Guys, I like to chew tobacco a lot... I think you need to put spittoons in every public establishment because I don't like spitting into ash trays and sometimes I cut my fingers when I turn pop cans into spittoons.

Can I get some help, guys?

 

[cantata]

I really do not see any need to change the way that our society is... I've never just said, "Hey, how about people start walking around nude?" It seems unnecessary.

I've never really looked into the issue because it is ridiculous.

I don't think that anyone's suggesting that everyone should wander around naked all the time. The question the OP asked, as I saw it, was whether it's acceptable for young people to be semi-publicly naked (i.e. naked in a secure and enclosed environment, but one in which there might be people present that they don't know personally).

Of course, if we lived in a society where everyone was naked all the time then the issue would be different.But here is a fact: We don't live in that society, and for women to walk around naked would prevoke lustful thoughts in people and be generally distracting, causing a big scene.

Wouldn't you say that's a bit of a shame?

Wouldn't be nice if that changed?

I do not think most people want to be going to the movies with their 12 year old to be greeted by hair arm pitted naked feminists.

What exactly would you say is the problem with a) underarm hair and b) nudity being seen by 12-year-olds?

It's just unnecessary.

Many things are unnecessary, but I don't think that on its own that's a reason to ban them.

You got your beaches, perhaps you need more; you got your private resorts and you can do it I guess in your own way here and there and I will gladly shake your hand and help you fight for any right you are deprived of in your efforts to be nude by yourself or on your little plot of land, but other than that...

Why?

Well, because there's an underlying idea that nudity is shameful and sinful, and some people don't like that.

Why is this important or necessary or something that people should even take time out of their day to contemplate?

Because to some people it's important!

I agree - if you're not a nudist, it's of no interest at all. So I don't see why we shouldn't just let people who want to be naked do their thing. It's none of our business, really, is it?

There was a documentary on BBC3 a few months back called Dawn Goes... Naked, in which a young journalist called Dawn Porter spent some time meeting nudists, having tasteful nude photographs taken, being an artists' model, doing some Burlesque dancing, and generally trying to get to like her body a bit more. The programme culminated in a truly heartwarming scene of an open-top bus full of naked and semi-naked women, most of whom had never met until that day, driving through London with placards that read things like "Curvy and Proud" and "Love Your Body". (They checked it all out with the police and it was fine.) It was so lovely to see the sistership between these women, the sense of community and joy in their femininity, and the total un-sexuality of the whole affair. They were just enjoying being comfortable with themselves and not feeling ashamed of their bodies and their nakedness.

Guys, I like to chew tobacco a lot... I think you need to put spittoons in every public establishment because I don't like spitting into ash trays and sometimes I cut my fingers when I turn pop cans into spittoons.

Can I get some help, guys?

Doesn't sound like a bad idea. Especially since I don't really want to see you spitting in an ash tray. Gross.

 

[Blackrend]

Opinions on nudity are all relative to where you were born and raised. I don't think there's anything 'Biblical' about whether it's moral or not. For instance, Europe is more accepting of the naked human body than America is.

From being an art student and drawing from live models, I've discovered that there is a fine line between nudity and pornography. The trouble is making that distinction, which, as previously stated, is relative depending on where you live.

 

[sidhe]

Naked time. Ain't nothing wrong with that. The obsession with covering the body seems silly to me.

 

[Verv]

Wouldn't you say that's a bit of a shame?

Wouldn't be nice if that changed?

No, I'm fine with my clothes.

I think in a sanitary way, I do not want to sit on seats that have had other peoples naked bodies all over them, especially during hot summers when I imagine seats would have butt sweat and even other peoples leg/butt hairs on them. I also do not want to particularly spend my day looking at naked overweight and elderly people, nor do I want to see some of these women (who are already half naked anyways) fully nude.

The last thing I need to be is on a date with some girl distracted by another girl's body.

I really don't think that you can erase the instinct to look at a truly good body -- people wear clothes all the time but I still find myself in groups of men tilting our heads and straining to see every outline through the jeans.

What exactly would you say is the problem with a) underarm hair and b) nudity being seen by 12-year-olds?

Haha, I just think about undearm hair on women the same way I think of unibrows. Perhaps in a different dimension it would be cool.

And nudity by 12 year olds, of course, is going to spark really great conversation, I am sure.

But you are right: there is nothing objectively wrong with 12 year olds being exposed to nudity as a normal thing.

I plan on introducing my 12 year old to sex -- find a nice neighbor kid, encourage them to develop a fine sexual relationship and learn about the way love is. Let my 12 year old walk around naked through the town. It'll be a perfect Utopia full of gay-friendly animal rights activists who are so sexually liberated they are not sure who their parents are.

Well, because there's an underlying idea that nudity is shameful and sinful, and some people don't like that.

I think that's what you want to think. You ascribe too much to it.

Nudity is only shameful in the sense that if you are naked in public, no one else is usually there naked with you. People act ashamed when they get caught naked in a place where you aren't supposed to be naked because... You were naked, and the other people weren't, and they caught you, and it's funny for them and not funny for you.

Sinful? I do not think it is inherently sinful. However, I think it would make society more uncomfortable.

Bumping into people in public would also certainly be a more interesting experience.

Because to some people it's important!

Spittoons are important to me...

But I choose to buy my spittoons and to save an empty bottle in a backpack, or buy a 40 cent coffee just to drink half the contents nd throw it out then chew.

These folks could choose to keep going to their naked camps... I just do not really want to pay for them.

There was a documentary on BBC3 a few months back called Dawn Goes... Naked, in which a young journalist called Dawn Porter spent some time meeting nudists, having tasteful nude photographs taken, being an artists' model, doing some Burlesque dancing, and generally trying to get to like her body a bit more. The programme culminated in a truly heartwarming scene of an open-top bus full of naked and semi-naked women, most of whom had never met until that day, driving through London with placards that read things like "Curvy and Proud" and "Love Your Body". (They checked it all out with the police and it was fine.) It was so lovely to see the sistership between these women, the sense of community and joy in their femininity, and the total un-sexuality of the whole affair. They were just enjoying being comfortable with themselves and not feeling ashamed of their bodies and their nakedness.



Doesn't sound like a bad idea. Especially since I don't really want to see you spitting in an ash tray. Gross.

Haha, OK, we'll get spittoons everywhere....

OK, here's the thing...

Be comfortable with your body. Love it. But I do not want to really be around your naked body, whether you are beautiful or ugly. Why?

I don't want to sit where you've been sitting, I don't want to stare at your body, and I do not want to try to look away from your body, I do not want to really... Have to change? Because you want us all to change?

Should 99% of society change because 1% wants to?

Opinions on nudity are all relative to where you were born and raised. I don't think there's anything 'Biblical' about whether it's moral or not. For instance, Europe is more accepting of the naked human body than America is.

From being an art student and drawing from live models, I've discovered that there is a fine line between nudity and pornography. The trouble is making that distinction, which, as previously stated, is relative depending on where you live.

I can see that.

But to me... A naked body isn't even that artistic. I think nature is artistic. But humans? They are artistic because of their expressions and what they are doing. By themselves they are just bodies. \

And I guess I can agree because I do not get turned on by paintings of nude women.

Naked time. Ain't nothing wrong with that. The obsession with covering the body seems silly to me.

I think it is not that silly...

It's often quite cold; and when it is hot, you could get sunburnt in some very tender places. Or you could be sitting down and leaving a puddle of buttocks-sweat where you were.

Even in the hottest of environments people still generally cover their genitals. I think it is a sign that... Your genitals can get hurt easily without some cover. and you should get a string to go through your buttocks so you don't get sand in your bottom hole and catch some of the sweat.

 

[sidhe]

I think it is not that silly...

It's often quite cold; and when it is hot, you could get sunburnt in some very tender places. Or you could be sitting down and leaving a puddle of buttocks-sweat where you were.

Even in the hottest of environments people still generally cover their genitals. I think it is a sign that... Your genitals can get hurt easily without some cover. and you should get a string to go through your buttocks so you don't get sand in your bottom hole and catch some of the sweat.

Doing it for practical reasons isn't silly. Though I'm one of those people who walks through the snow in shorts.

The obsessive idea that some people have that it's necessary for the continuation of modern society that people not see bare breasts is what's silly. My favorite example of this silliness: Here, in the US, the USA Network showed the remake of Dawn of the Dead "uncensored". The gore and violence was unedited. Nudity was blurred out. Now, I find a naked butt or bare tatas far less disturbing than evisceration, but that's just me. Being a big horror movie fan, I don't even find evisceration in a movie that disturbing. So that should say how silly I find the notion clothes are necessary for any reason other than purely practical.

 

[cantata]

No, I'm fine with my clothes.

No one is saying you should take your clothes off. The question I asked was whether or not it is rather a shame that people think of nudity as being primarily a sexual state.

I think in a sanitary way, I do not want to sit on seats that have had other peoples naked bodies all over them, especially during hot summers when I imagine seats would have butt sweat and even other peoples leg/butt hairs on them.

A practical concern. Practical concerns are all well and good, but many people have moral objections.

I also do not want to particularly spend my day looking at naked overweight and elderly people, nor do I want to see some of these women (who are already half naked anyways) fully nude.

Tough. I don't like looking at muffin-tops or cropped trousers, but that's life.

The last thing I need to be is on a date with some girl distracted by another girl's body.

Then keep your eyes to yourself. That's a failing of yours, not the naked people.

I really don't think that you can erase the instinct to look at a truly good body -- people wear clothes all the time but I still find myself in groups of men tilting our heads and straining to see every outline through the jeans.

Absolutely - but that has as much to do with the fact that they want to see what's been purposefully covered up! Why is it titillating to see someone with a nice bottom in tight jeans? Because you get a hint of what's there, while still having something left to the imagination.

A nude painting isn't (usually) titillating, firstly because it isn't (usually) designed to be, and secondly because nudity is not inherently provocative. Unless someone is posed provocatively, or dressed in such a way that you can almost see but not quite, nudity is pretty neutral.

Haha, I just think about undearm hair on women the same way I think of unibrows. Perhaps in a different dimension it would be cool.

Are men also obliged to shave their underarms in order to avoid offending your delicate sensibilities?

And nudity by 12 year olds, of course, is going to spark really great conversation, I am sure.

I don't think I was talking about naked children, but about children seeing naked adults.

But you are right: there is nothing objectively wrong with 12 year olds being exposed to nudity as a normal thing.

I'm glad you agree.

I plan on introducing my 12 year old to sex -- find a nice neighbor kid, encourage them to develop a fine sexual relationship and learn about the way love is.

What has anything we've talked about so far got to do with underage sex?

Nudity and sex are not synonymous.

Let my 12 year old walk around naked through the town. It'll be a perfect Utopia full of gay-friendly animal rights activists who are so sexually liberated they are not sure who their parents are.

If everyone were naked, I can't see that there'd be a problem.

The only problem with nudity is a socially constructed one.

I think that's what you want to think. You ascribe too much to it.

Nudity is only shameful in the sense that if you are naked in public, no one else is usually there naked with you. People act ashamed when they get caught naked in a place where you aren't supposed to be naked because... You were naked, and the other people weren't, and they caught you, and it's funny for them and not funny for you.

Sinful? I do not think it is inherently sinful. However, I think it would make society more uncomfortable.

I don't think social discomfort is necessarily a bad thing. I also think that some conventions are not so good for people. Covering bodies up does, as you say, lead to problems when for some reason someone is naked in public. I'm not saying we should all just strip off and change the world, but I do think there needs to be a change in attitude towards nudity.

Bumping into people in public would also certainly be a more interesting experience.

All fun, all fun.

Spittoons are important to me...

But I choose to buy my spittoons and to save an empty bottle in a backpack, or buy a 40 cent coffee just to drink half the contents nd throw it out then chew.

How noble of you.

These folks could choose to keep going to their naked camps... I just do not really want to pay for them.

Did anyone say you'd have to? o_0

Haha, OK, we'll get spittoons everywhere....

Better than spitting in ash trays, for sure!

OK, here's the thing...

Be comfortable with your body. Love it. But I do not want to really be around your naked body, whether you are beautiful or ugly. Why?

I don't want to sit where you've been sitting, I don't want to stare at your body, and I do not want to try to look away from your body, I do not want to really... Have to change? Because you want us all to change?

Should 99% of society change because 1% wants to?

Why would you have to change because someone else wants to take their clothes off?

I understand practical concerns, but I don't understand why you think it will be this massive thing that you have to change.

But to me... A naked body isn't even that artistic. I think nature is artistic. But humans? They are artistic because of their expressions and what they are doing. By themselves they are just bodies.

And I guess I can agree because I do not get turned on by paintings of nude women.

I do not think a body has to be expressive to be beautiful. Sometimes an artist can make an expressionless body expressive through the way she portrays it.

I think it is not that silly...

It's often quite cold; and when it is hot, you could get sunburnt in some very tender places. Or you could be sitting down and leaving a puddle of buttocks-sweat where you were.

Even in the hottest of environments people still generally cover their genitals. I think it is a sign that... Your genitals can get hurt easily without some cover. and you should get a string to go through your buttocks so you don't get sand in your bottom hole and catch some of the sweat.

Again, practical concerns are different from the intense moral outrage that some people experience at the suggestion that public nudity might not be so bad. Need I mention Janet Jackson's nipple?

 

[Paulos23]

We are very close to social nudism now, have you seen some of the swimsuits out there? Might as well wear nothing.

Personally it is a big hang up of our society. I remember as a kid sneaking Playboys to look at naked women. Now, it doesn't excite me. I think if kids where exposed to nudity more often they wouldn't make the connection to sex all the time like we do now.

Heck, I find how a woman dresses to be more sexy then her walking around nude.

 

[rambot]

I do not think most people want to be going to the movies with their 12 year old to be greeted by hair arm pitted naked feminists.

No because that would distract them from watching the murders, fights, and general mayhem and violence in the movies. And don't forget about hannah montana in a bikini (which is tiny steps away from being naked anyways).

 

[coyoteBR]

Years ago, I had the greatest evidence there's something very wrong with our society. There was a big prision riot here in Brazil; during the chaos, dozens of people died, mostly in-mates.

Then, one of our leading newspapers published a photo of the victims, lined waiting the autopsy. We could see the bruises, the bullet marks... but their nudity was censored.

What kind of values are those? The obscene thing on that case is not our body, it's the senseless violence, the destruction of human lifes.

TV shows a woman naked, it's a crime.
TV reporter asks a woman who just lost her kid on an accident "what is she feeling", close-up on her face and tears, is journalism.

Please.

(Before you ask, I think the photo of the bodies should not be published, on the first place)

 

[jcook922]

Several Biblical passages imply that nudity should be avoided.

Isa. 47:3;
Your nakedness shall be uncovered,
Yes, your shame will be seen;
I will take vengeance,
And I will not arbitrate with a man.”

Ezek. 16:7-8;
7I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare.
8 “When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine,” says the Lord GOD.
​

That it is a state associated with shame and embarrassment. In fact, HERE is a whole article on the evils of nudity in which its author says:

"I am affirming that "Social nudism is condemned by the Bible as sinful." Just what is social nudism? That is defined in the debate agreement as "Men and women (both married and unmarried) and their children being together completely naked for non-sexual social and recreational purposes."

"Social nudism is wrong because it can provoke lust."
​

But please take a look at the following. The pictures below were taken at a teen dance, most likely at a nudist resort.


Please note that the two photos showing teenagers at a dance while nude, and its linked source, have been removed by a moderator---hopefully, just temporarily. (Washington)


Be warned that the source contains images of uncensored adult and child nudity.

From what I can tell, this activity and the other mixed-gender activities depicted on the web site, are quite innocent in nature; lacking both shame and embarrassment, and any indication of mounting lust.

My question---which I admittedly have biased by the images above---is: Despite what may be interpreted from the Bible can nudity be an accepted practice in a modern culture, even among its developing youth?

Since when did the bible decide what accepted practices in modern culture are?

 

[Verv]

Well, I will say: I do not want to see shirts with corpses on it, or with total violence.

I will also say: People do not want much nudity during regular programming hours because some of us are easily distracted. I do not need to be sitting down and seeing a nice, nude body at 7 PM while I am eating my dinner and letting my mind wander. It makes me uncomfortable because, generally speaking, I do not like to think about sex that much. It is unproductive in a way. And OK, that is a personal complaint and I know that my solution would be to watch a program which promises not to have that.

And just to let you know:

Confucianist societies are atheist or ancestor worshiping by and large and it was considered obscene in the 1960s and 1970s for men to have their shirts off. People almost always wore long sleeves, etc. because they did not like the idea of too much skin. And these are atheists. It is cultural on large levels.

Finns are historically Christian and they gave birth to the sauna.

We cannot pin this all on Christianity preventing it as it is more of a cultural thing, as opposed to religious...

And Cantata, about the 'I am staring because it is hidden,' I am not sure if that is true.

Sometimes I do some staring at things that are not hidden. It's happened.

A nice body is a nice body, and if we can see the outlines or the nudity, it is going to be looked at and appraised.

 

[cantata]

And just to let you know:

Confucianist societies are atheist or ancestor worshiping by and large and it was considered obscene in the 1960s and 1970s for men to have their shirts off. People almost always wore long sleeves, etc. because they did not like the idea of too much skin. And these are atheists. It is cultural on large levels.

Finns are historically Christian and they gave birth to the sauna.

We cannot pin this all on Christianity preventing it as it is more of a cultural thing, as opposed to religious...

I assure you I am not trying to pin it on religions.

And Cantata, about the 'I am staring because it is hidden,' I am not sure if that is true.

Sometimes I do some staring at things that are not hidden. It's happened.

A nice body is a nice body, and if we can see the outlines or the nudity, it is going to be looked at and appraised.

I think you stare at some body parts because, naked or not in the current circumstances, it is usually hidden.

But let's try a different tack. Do you think it is bad that legs are on display, or necks? A lot of people find these body parts very sexy, and yet society manages to function. The difference between these parts and others is that because we see them every day, we may find them sexy, but we don't associate them solely with sex, so they don't distract us untowardly. Breasts and bottoms and genitals, by virtue of being rarely seen, are almost exclusively associated with sex.

 

[jcook922]

I am by no means chaste, but I think nudity is something that should be reserved for the privacy of your own home, not out in public with everybody else. Be it just having a lazy day naked on the couch, if that's the sort of thing you do, or for any other purpose. I do consider it distracting to have in daily life.