To all, but particularly ELCA and ELCIC members; What are your thoughts?

[LutheranMafia]

It depends on the object of the love. Remember, "the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil."

Yes, but money won't love you back!

When the object of our love is not God pleasing, it is sinful. When one is in love with someone of the same gender, it is not God-pleasing, thus it is sinful.

But why is it not God-pleasing?

I find lesbians to be gross because (a) it is heavily associated with mental health problems, mostly as a result of anger at men, and (b) it goes against the natural order. I’m not talking about the hetero order, but rather the instinctive response of the eldest surviving females to the death of all the mature males in the clan or tribe. It is natural for older women in this case to take on a decidedly asexual form of lesbianism in order to save the tribe. There are other cultures, even in Eastern Europe, that readily accept this custom, and the amazing thing is that these women do not look at all like the gross appearance of lesbians in this country. They actually look like charming and handsome men, not like haggly man haters at all. It is a natural biological reaction to the devastation of warfare, completely unlike virtually all lesbians in this country.

 

[WildStrawberry]

I don't really understand your point here, you mean in the patootie? Perhaps we should just move on to another subject in this topic...

No, I mean condoms. They're a VERY poor country and those things are...well...not as readily available. Plus, I know how men think...

Well… that’s just the way I think about it. I went to Georgia Tech which was 1/4th geeky homely girls (at least back then), and another 1/4th were gay men, so I had a number of both homely girls and gays show interest. It struck me in pretty much the same way.

So, what you're saying is, your bigoted against both gays and homely girls.

Nice.

Kae

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Well… that’s just the way I think about it. I went to Georgia Tech which was 1/4th geeky homely girls (at least back then), and another 1/4th were gay men, so I had a number of both homely girls and gays show interest. It struck me in pretty much the same way.

And you stayed?

Talk about studious dedication!

 

[LutheranMafia]

So, what you're saying is, your bigoted against both gays and homely girls.

Nice.

Have I made a comment about the salvation of the homely?

 

[LutheranMafia]

And you stayed?

Talk about studious dedication!

All technical universities are like that if they are hard to get into. Gay guys are statistically smarted and pretty girls don't want to strain their brain so hard if they don't have to.

The presence of so many gay guys didn't bother me nearly as much as the absence of pretty chicks. But that didn't stop me from swooping on the few pretty chicks that were there!

 

[BabyLutheran]

Not you, LM, you would never do such a thing!

 

[Radiata]

I am sick and tired of how the church treats homosexuality. Yes, we all know that it is a sin as marked in the Law, and also by Paul, but why is it given so much attention? The church has made it out to be the sin of all sins, when in fact, it is actually no different than lying, stealing, or even murder. Are there homosexuals in heaven? Yes. I know of someone that doesn't want to be one, and prays constantly that he will change. Is this person committing an unforgivable sin even though he is repenting? Of course not. Then people say that it's ok if it is in a single monogamous relationship. Where do they come up with bull like that?

Let sins be sins! Look on homosexuality the same way one would ANY other crime! As for a homosexual belonging to the clergy? As long as he knows that it is a sin, and does everything in his power to resist urges, why not let him preach? How is this man any different from any conservative straight pastor seeing as they are both repentant sinners? Time to go.

/rant

 

[DaRev]

Goodness, my hubby has been sinning for going on 28yrs!

Why? Is he in love with someone else?

 

[DaRev]

I find lesbians to be gross because (a) it is heavily associated with mental health problems, mostly as a result of anger at men, and (b) it goes against the natural order. I’m not talking about the hetero order, but rather the instinctive response of the eldest surviving females to the death of all the mature males in the clan or tribe. It is natural for older women in this case to take on a decidedly asexual form of lesbianism in order to save the tribe. There are other cultures, even in Eastern Europe, that readily accept this custom, and the amazing thing is that these women do not look at all like the gross appearance of lesbians in this country. They actually look like charming and handsome men, not like haggly man haters at all. It is a natural biological reaction to the devastation of warfare, completely unlike virtually all lesbians in this country.

But it's still sinful because it goes against God's will.

 

[DaRev]

I am sick and tired of how the church treats homosexuality. Yes, we all know that it is a sin as marked in the Law, and also by Paul, but why is it given so much attention? The church has made it out to be the sin of all sins, when in fact, it is actually no different than lying, stealing, or even murder. Are there homosexuals in heaven? Yes. I know of someone that doesn't want to be one, and prays constantly that he will change. Is this person committing an unforgivable sin even though he is repenting? Of course not. Then people say that it's ok if it is in a single monogamous relationship. Where do they come up with bull like that?

Let sins be sins! Look on homosexuality the same way one would ANY other crime! As for a homosexual belonging to the clergy? As long as he knows that it is a sin, and does everything in his power to resist urges, why not let him preach? How is this man any different from any conservative straight pastor seeing as they are both repentant sinners? Time to go.

/rant

If a homosexual is truly repentant, then he/she will no longer be homosexual.

 

[seajoy]

Why? Is he in love with someone else?

That was kind of you. Thanks.

 

[LutheranMafia]

But it's still sinful because it goes against God's will.

It's asexual, I'm referring to something that is just a masculinization, but it is family orient, a genetically built in failsafe mechanism to ensure the survival of one's family even when all the males of the extended family have been killed. I really shouldn't even have called it lesbianism, it is the biological instinctual response to a horrendous tragedy. Lesbianism is a distortion of this that involves no tragedy, and is focused on sexual gratification rather than survival of one's kin. One is about devotion to one's family and being willing to sacrifice their femininity to ensure their family's survival, while the other is about hating the males that reared them and wanting to become more masculine out of pure jealousy.

 

[Edial]

It says that this guy was married since 2003.
And he says he is a homosexual and he apparently was one all this time.

In my understanding homosexual is the one who does not sleep with women and only men.

Why he married her?

 

[Melethiel]

and pretty girls don't want to strain their brain so hard if they don't have to.

Wow...

 

[Till]

If a homosexual is truly repentant, then he/she will no longer be homosexual.

What do you mean by this? That "true" repentance will bring about an automatic change in a man's or woman's sexual orientation? That obviously isn't the case for many heterosexual men struggling with pornography, why should it be for homosexuals.

I understand Radiata's frustration. Yes, Scriptures condemn homosexual acts and a church should not tolerate it. But it is too easy for those of us who have no homosexual interstes anyway, to make homosexualty look like the worst possible sin and ignore other sins that the Bible considers as harmful as homosexual acts.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

If a homosexual is truly repentant, then he/she will no longer be homosexual.

This does not happen very often, but Rev, I have to disagree with you.

In the past those who were homosexual, and knew it was a sin either remained celibate or married (a woman). Infrequently, those marriages were happy, usually they were misery for both parties.

I would also have to agree with the statisticians, again from growing up in a rural area where every one knows everyone, it would be about 10% for men. I do not recall any women with leanings though.

These men who in their own way recognized their sin, repented and avoided it, but still had to fight with it daily. No different than the rest of us who carry the stain of original sin, but must be watchful, and repent daily, lest we give in to temptation.

It is this daily and perpetual fight with temptation and sin that I believe is the mark of true repentance. If one has no struggle with sin they would have to be 100% sinless just like our Lord.

Mark

 

[seajoy]

Mark's post was a good one. Thanks.

 

[DaRev]

Well, I guess it appears that I'm pretty much alone in my convictions. I'll just stick to God's inspired inerrant word as the source and norm of my teaching and practice. I know I can't go wrong with that.

Ciao

 

[Melethiel]

I don't recall it saying anywhere in Scripture that true repentance leads to a removal of temptation. Please enlighten me.

 

[BabyLutheran]

I guess no one is truly repentant since most of us keep repeating the same sin patterns over and over, no matter how much we try not to.