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Evidence of Peter in Rome . . .

NoDoubt

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Cela m'est égal
POV means Point of view.

I dont think people want to look at a new idea,
sometimes they'd rather just stick with the
status quo.

French AND latin,
Merci beaucoup

:D
Ah merci beaucoup. Je comprends maintenant. :thumbsup:
 
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NoDoubt

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well i didnt read the whole article about the Jerusalem tomb, but it doesnt sound much different than Cameron Crowe finding Jesus's tomb! I kinda doubt there was only one Simon bar Jonah
Then you should read the entire article about some of these same claims. ;)

We all know that the story of Jesus' tomb is a fabrication full of holes and so easy to dismiss, but not this.
 
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Uphill Battle

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If you speak (phoenetically) the way you write it, you're doing great! :thumbsup:
funny thing is, I have no idea where I picked it up. I took only the mandatory single credit of french in highschool. Ah well. Back on topic. :p
 
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Uphill Battle

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well i didnt read the whole article about the Jerusalem tomb, but it doesnt sound much different than Cameron Crowe finding Jesus's tomb! I kinda doubt there was only one Simon bar Jonah
would it matter to the EO if Peter were buried elsewhere? I didn't think it would.
 
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jckstraw72

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would it matter to the EO if Peter were buried elsewhere? I didn't think it would.

ive believe Peter was the first bishop since joining Orthodoxy ... it certainly wouldnt matter to my faith though either way since we dont have the Papacy claims.
 
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Trento

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Trento, wasn't that an interesting article about Simon Bar Jonah's ossuary found by the Franciscan monk in Jerusalem?

Hey, I just noticed this:

"This ancient Christian burial ground shows that Peter died and was buried in Jerusalem, which is easily understandable since neither history nor the Bible tells of Peter’s having been in Rome. To make matters more clear, the Bible tells us that Peter was the Apostle to the Jews. It was Paul who was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and both history and the Bible tells of his being in Rome. No wonder that the Roman Catholic Bishop, Strossmayer, in his great speech against papal infallibility before the Pope and the Council of 1870 said, "Scaliger, one of the most learned men, has not hesitated to say that St. Peter’s episcopate and residence in Rome ought to be classed with ridiculous legends." Eusebius, one of the most learned men of his time, wrote the Church history up to the year 325 A.D. He said that Peter never was in Rome. This Church history was translated by Jerome from the original Greek, but in his translation he added a fantastic story of Peter’s residence in Rome. This was a common practice in trying to create credence in their doctrines, using false statements, false letters and falsified history. This is another reason why we cannot rely on tradition, but only on the infallible Word of God."

(same link)


Simon Bar Jonah's ossuary found by the Franciscan monk in Jerusalem?
Whenever stuff like this hits the papers, they always call it "controversial" and they always speculate on how Christians are going to cope with this latest • Jesus was a woman.
• Jesus was a space alien and is buried in Japan.
• Jesus survived the crucifixion and is buried in Kashmir.
• Jesus was a Buddhist.
• Jesus was a Muslim.
• Jesus was a Mormon.
• Jesus was a magician.
• Jesus was a Gnostic.
• Jesus was the son of Mary and a Roman solider.
• Jesus never existed.
• Jesus was never executed.
• Jesus was married and had children.
• Jesus was a social revolutionary when he was not a mere Mediterranean peasant.
• Jesus was an itinerant visionary whose real teachings exist only in distorted, fragmented form.
• Jesus was insane.
 
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Trento

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sigh.... good ol' paste in, and run out. ;)


For 9 years twice a month Catholic Answers sends me information and Church Fathers writings. I put them in a file on my Computer and refer to them when needed.
;)
 
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S

SpiritualAntiseptic

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More interesting to me is some evidence I've seen posted recently, that Peter is buried at the Mt. of olives, and not under St. Peters Bascilla in Rome. Don't know if it's flash in the pan, or true.... but interesting nonetheless.

You do know they found St. Peter's bones just decades ago when they were digging underground?

It's an interesting story- Peter was buried at Vatican Hill and in the first four centuries of Christianity they continued to build shrines and altars over them. For about 1500 years they simply remained, buried and underground... until they were doing an needed excavation and found them exactly where they had been left for 15 centuries... underneath all the structures that had been built over them.
 
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Trento

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Trento, wasn't that an interesting article about Simon Bar Jonah's ossuary found by the Franciscan monk in Jerusalem?

This was a common practice in trying to create credence in their doctrines, using false statements, false letters and falsified history. This is another reason why we cannot rely on tradition, but only on the infallible Word of God."

(same link)



Let's eliminate the complete testimony of the Fathers from history - go ahead now - find your canon. Nothing we know about Jesus comes to us that has not gone through their hands - there is absolutely no way around this.

Eusebius of Caesarea

"[In the second] year of the two hundredth and fifth Olympiad [A.D. 42]: The apostle Peter, after he has established the church in Antioch, wentt to Rome, where he remains as a bishop of that city, preaching the gospel for twenty-five years" (The Chronicle [A.D. 303]).


You ignore Christian History even by non Catholic Scholars.

About 34AD ( Acts 2:41), we have an early mention of Peter. Some days later, in Acts 5:19, Peter is freed from prison by an angel. He spends four years in Jerusalem (Acts 8:25). St. Paul arrived at the beginning of Peter's fourth year (Acts 9:27-28). In the same year Peter (Acts 9:32) went to Joppe, raised Tabitha, and had the linen vision (Acts 10:11-12). After a few days he went to Caesarea (to visit Cornelius - Acts 10:23). He returned to Jerusalem (Acts 11:18) for a short time. Then he went to Antioch in Syria (as did Barnabas). This is attested to by Anacletus (Ep. iii), Marcellus (Ep. iii), St. Innocent I (Ep. xiv), St. Damasus in the Pontifical Book, St. Jerome in the "De Viris Illustribus" etc.

Peter?s episcopacy in Antioch lasted seven years (St. Leo, Sermon on Sts. Peter and Paul). Eleven years after the Ascension (the second year of Claudius), Peter went to Rome, first visiting Jerusalem (Acts 12, where he is thrown in prison, then rescued by an angel). The Roman Martyrology records the converts he sent to various parts, e.g. to Sicliy he sent Pancras, Marcian, and Berillus; to Verona he sent Exuperius, etc.

In the seventh year of his Roman pontificate, Claudius expelled all the Jews (and the Christians, who were regarded as a Jewish sect) from Rome. St. Peter returned to Jerusalem. Paul and Barnabas came for him over the dispute at Antioch (Acts 15:8). This Council took place in the 10th year of Claudius.

(Paul was converted the year after the Ascension, and went to see Peter in Jerualem in the third year of his conversion (Gal. 1:18); fourteen years later he went again to Jerusalem (Gal 2:1) and attended the Council (Acts 15). So there were eighteen years from the Crucifixion to the Council of Jerusalem, which would be the tenth year of Claudius' reign.)

Claudius died after a reign of thirteen years, and his four-year edict of expulsion against the Jews died with him. It was during this four-year spell that Paul wrote his epistle to the Romans. Nero succeeded, and Christians began returning to Rome (including Aquila and Priscilla). Peter returned to Rome in the first year of Nero's reign. Two years later Paul joined Peter in Rome as a prisoner. (So how come Paul found the Jews in Rome knew the Christian religiononly by report, if Peter had been there? The solution is that the Jews who had been banished did not return.)

Two years later (fourth year of Nero's reign), Paul, now set free, spent some time in Rome, then left for Spain.

In the tenth year of Nero (22nd year of Peter's pontificate, 64 AD), Rome was set on fire. Nero blamed the Christians and began a persecution against them the following year.

In the twelfth year of Nero (68AD), Peter, who had been absent for a while, came back to Rome to revive the Church. In this year Peter wrote his second Epistle, in which he foretells his own death (1:14). Nero cast Peter and Paul into the Mamertine prison for nine months. From here Paul wrote his Second Letter to Timothy, requesting he come to Rome to witness his (Paul's) martyrdom. It was at this tme that Process and Martinian were converted, along with 47 others.
In ~68-69AD, in the 25th year of Peter's pontificate in Rome, Peter and Paul were sentenced to death.
This simple sketch should explain any difficulties which arise, e.g., how Peter could have been seven years at Antioch and twenty-five years Bishop of Rome, and yet be in Jerusalem in the 4th, 11th and 18th year after Our Lord's Ascension, as inferred from the Epistle to the Galatians and the Acts of the Apostles.



That St. Peter was Bishop of Rome is testified by:
  • Eusebius, Chronicon, 74
  • St. Irenaeus, Book III, chapter 3.
  • Dorotheus, In Synopsis.
  • St. Augustine, Epistola 53 and Contra Epistolam Fundamenti, ch. 4, title 8; in chapter 5 he writes: "I am kept in the church by the succession of Bishops from St. Peter, to whom the Lord committed the care of His sheep down to the present Bishop."
That St. Peter died in Rome is testifed by:
  • St. Augustine, de Consense Evangelistarum, Book 1.
  • Eusebius, Chronicon 71, a Christo nato.
  • Paul Orosius, History, Book VIII.
  • St. Maximus, Sermon v on the Birthday of the Apostles.
  • Origen, Book III on Genesis, as stated by eusebius, HIstory, Book III, ch. 2.
  • St. Jerome, Book of Illustrious Men.
Calvin: "I cannot withstand the consent of those writers who prove that Peter died at Rome." Institutes, Book IV.
 
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Trento

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Protestant scholars Witness.

Editors of the Evangelical NEW BIBLE COMMENTARY 21st Century Edition (1994). Please tell us where was Peter writing his First Epistle?
NBC: "In 5:13 the writer sends greetings from 'she who is in Babylon, chosen together with you'. This seems like a reference to the local church in Babylon, but it is unlikely that Peter would have gone to the former capital of Nebuchadnezzar's empire.
"By Peter's time it was a sparsely inhabited ruin (fulfilling Isaiah 14:23). In Rev 16:19 and 17:5 'Babylon' is used as a cryptic name for Rome, and Col 4:10 and Phm 24 (most likely written in Rome) show that Mark was there with Paul. In 2 Tim 4:11 Mark is in Asia Minor, and Paul sends for him to come to Rome."
"The fact that neither Peter nor Paul mentions the other in the list of those sending greetings from Rome merely suggests that they were not together at the time of writing their letters. All this points to the theory that Peter was writing from Rome, which is supported by the evidence of Tertullian (praescrip haeret, 36) and Eusebius (Eccl History, 2.25.8; 2.15.2 and 3.1.2-3)."
NEW BIBLE COMMENTARY (Intervarsity Press, 1994), p. 1370 edited by Donald Guthrie with D.A. Carson, R.T. France, J.A. Motyer, and G.J. Wenham

Protestant Church Historical scholar Adolph Harnack.
HARNACK: "...to deny the Roman stay of Peter is an error which today is clear to every scholar who is not blind. The martyr death of Peter at Rome was once contested by reason of Protestant prejudice."
Adolph Harnack cited in THE SEARCH FOR THE TWELVE APOSTLES by William Stuart McBirnie (Tyndale House, 1988), p. 63

The biggest anti-Catholic critic of all time, who wrote the 500-page volume THE INFALLIBILITY OF THE CHURCH Protestant, George Salmon,

SALMON: "Some Protestant controversialists have asserted that Peter was NEVER at Rome...I think the historic probability is that he was; though, as I say, at a late period of the history, and not long before his death....[but some] Protestant champions had undertaken the impossible task of proving the negative, that Peter was NEVER at Rome. They might as well have undertaken to prove out of the Bible that St. Bartholomew never preached in Pekin."
"For myself, I am willing, in the absence of any opposing tradition, to accept the current account that Peter suffered martyrdom at Rome. We know with certainty from John xxi that Peter suffered martyrdom somewhere. If Rome, which early laid claim to have witnessed that martyrdom, were not the scene of it, where then did it take place? Any city would be glad to claim such a connexion with the name of the Apostle, and NONE but Rome made the claim."
"If this evidence for Peter's Roman martyrdom be not deemed sufficient, there are few things in the history of the early Church which it will be possible to demonstrate."
THE INFALLIBILITY OF THE CHURCH : A Refutation by George Salmon, D.D. (Baker, 1959, orig 1888), p. 348,349
Testament Protestant scholar F.F. Bruce.
BRUCE: "That Peter as well as Paul was put to death at Rome under Nero is the UNANIMOUS testimony of Christian tradition so far as it touches this subject."
"That Peter and Paul were the most eminent of many Christians who suffered martyrdom in Rome under Nero is CERTAIN; that they were claimed as co-founders of the Roman church and that this, together with their martyrdom there, conferred great religious (as distinct from political) prestige on that church, is likewise CERTAIN...."
NEW TESTAMENT HISTORY (Doubleday and Co, 1971) by F.F. Bruce, p. 403,410

Church historian Jaroslav Pelikan.
PELIKAN: "The martyrdom of both Peter and Paul in Rome....belongs to [Christian] tradition. It has often been questioned by Protestant critics, some of whom have even contended that Peter was NEVER in Rome. But the archaeological researches of the Protestant historian Hans Lietzmann, supplemented by the library study of the Protestant exegete Oscar Cullmann, have made it extremely difficult to deny the tradition of Peter's death in Rome under the emperor Nero.
"The account of Paul's martyrdom in Rome, which is supported by much of the same evidence, has not called forth similar skepticism."
THE RIDDLE OF ROMAN CATHOLICISM (Abingdon Press, 1959) by Jaroslav Pelikan, p. 36-37

From the recent anti-Catholic book by James R. White --
"The early tradition of the Church associates Peter with Rome throughout. Anyone going solely on the basis of the reports of the Fathers must conclude Peter was in Rome, at the very least at his death." (James White, The Roman Catholic Controversy, page 246)
I commend James White for at least including this factual statement, but that it must be relegated to a note near the end of the book says something about the persistent prejudice many anti-Catholic authors and publishers of books attacking the Catholic Church (in the past and present) have regarding St. Peter's presence in the Church at Rome.
PORVAZNIK
 
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