How Do Adventists View The Death Penalty?

[catlover]

To me, a government entity which is flawed should not have the right to take away another person's life.

While the crime is horrible detestable etc. Life in prison without the chance of parole is more appropriate.

 

[NightEternal]

Boy, did you ever open a can of worms with this one. I see report button fingers being held in position as this thread commences.

You are not going to get a consensus on this issue, so I hope you are not looking for some official statement or mass agreement. We all have our own personal views on the DP.

Personally, I am for it all the way and always have been.

The state does not bear the sword in vain. God has appointed law-enorcement civil authourities with the power to take the life of dangerous, sick, sadistic criminals when necessary.

Besides, I, for one, don't want my tax dollars being sucked into a bleeding-heart liberal vacuum keeping serial killers and child rapists alive in prison.

 

[AndrewK788]

To me, a government entity which is flawed should not have the right to take away another person's life.

While the crime is horrible detestable etc. Life in prison without the chance of parole is more appropriate.

that's actually a good question. I'm not sure if the SDA church has an official stance on this matter.

Me personally, I am for the death penalty, but I won't go into that. Does anyone else know if the SDA church has a stance?

 

[djconklin]

There is no government entity that determines who is to live or die. One is tried before a jury of one's peers. Now they may not be the brightest bulbs on the tree, but ...

 

[RND]

To me, a government entity which is flawed should not have the right to take away another person's life.

While the crime is horrible detestable etc. Life in prison without the chance of parole is more appropriate.

Since becoming involved in prison ministries I am decidedly against the death penalty.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I believe Andrew is right that there isn't an "official" teaching about this in the Adventist church, and you'd probably get several different answers on this one even if there were.

Personally, I didn't really have an opinion about it one way or another until in the last six years. With my own eyes I watched a jury of peers convict a man without any evidence whatsoever. He wasn't sentenced to death, but he may as well have been.

We're a prosecution-happy country. As long as there is a need for organizations like the Innocence Project, I will not ever be in favor of the death penalty--so basically that means never.

In essence, at least to me, it negates God's claim that vengeance is HIS. He claimed it and we have no right to try to take it away from Him. I know we all want to strike back when something bad happens to us and to personally see the devil get his due in our lifetimes, but that just isn't going to happen. We have to have faith.

I've been a victim of a crime, but I chose to live my life as a survivor. That experience, along with a lot of other ones, weren't so great to go through, but they are definitely part of my refining that was necessary.

If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching a movie called "The Life of David Gale." That movie will make you stop and think about how things are not always as they appear, and in the end, a jury of our peers are all going to base their verdict on experiences they've experienced individually and not necessarily on what they've heard in the courtroom.

Vengeance is God's.

 

[NightEternal]

It's not about vengeance, it's about justice. And the state has the God-given authourity to carry that out for the good of society, death penalty included.

Conklin is correct, it is the jury that passes the death sentence. But it is the state who carries out the penalty.

I should move to Texas. They have it right IMO.

YEEEEE-HAAAAWWW!

Number of Executions by State and Region Since 1976

LAST UPDATED September 28, 2007: FOLLOWING AN EXECUTIONS IN Texas​

Return to the Executions Information Page by Clicking HERE​

[SIZE=+1]1099[/SIZE]

EXECUTIONS TO DATE IN 2007 [SIZE=+1]41[/SIZE]

TOTAL EXECUTIONS IN 2006 [SIZE=+1]53[/SIZE]

TOTAL EXECUTIONS IN 2005 [SIZE=+1]60[/SIZE]

STATE TOTAL EXECUTIONS/EXECUTIONS IN 2007/EXECUTIONS IN 2006

TEXAS 405/26/24

VIRGINIA 98/0/4

OKLAHOMA 86/3/4

http://search.msn.com/images/results.aspx?q=texas+%22death+panalty%22+state&mkt=en-ca#focal=d08425a2606a9c958c5422a8fbc80f54&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deathpenaltyinfo.org%2Fexecutionmap2006.gif

 

[RND]

We're a prosecution-happy country.

The carnal heart has an ingrained sense of justice as long as it doesn't apply to us individually or to those that are close to us.

The following is from my mentor in prison ministries:

The Four Questions…


1.) What if I told you that your youngest child was murdered? Would you want mercy or justice for the perpetrator?

2.) What if I told you that the murderer was your oldest child? Would you want mercy or justice for the perpetrator?

3.) What if I told you that you are guilty of the murder of the only begotten Son of God? Would you want mercy or justice as the perpetrator?

4.) What if I told you that you had a daughter, your only daughter, the apple of your eye, who has never given you a moment’s grief. Tonight, you have your tux hanging in the closet, because tomorrow you are scheduled to walk your daughter down the aisle and give her away to someone whom you approve? If you’re the mother, you have your new dress hanging next to the gown that you have been planning and preparing for since the first time she held her in her arms. But tonight, your daughter is at a bachelorette party with her peers and they talk her into having “one-for-the-road,” the first ever in her life. Two, three, four, five, six, seven (drinks) later, while on her way home, she wipes out a school bus full of little children on their way to camp. Everybody aboard the bus dies in a fiery inferno, but you daughter survives. Do you want mercy or justice for your daughter (?) and what do those that are related to those who were on bus want?

The moral of the story is…
The carnal heart has an ingrained sense of justice as long as it doesn’t apply to them or theirs. That is self-righteousness and hypocrisy! Furthermore, Satan knows that God will only forgive us according to our willingness to forgive others. The irony of the whole thing is – “we’re all family.”

As we have received God’s mercy – so are we to bestow the same mercy towards others. “Freely you have received, freely give.” We can hate the sin, but we must love the sinner for “we war not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in high places.”

 

[RND]

It's not about vengeance, it's about justice.

Who's justice?

Mat 6:14
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If God can forgive murderer's and rapist's and even child molester's why can't we?

 

[TrustAndObey]

RND, did you see that report from MSN recently about 1 in every 100 adults in this country being in prison?

That was a very good illustration that you posted, thank you.

I know our government today would murder David for the murder he committed, but look at the many wonderful things David accomplished for God after that murder.

The second part of the death penalty to consider is that it's basically saying the person that committed the crime isn't worthy of forgiveness.

There's a famous case that I don't have time to look up right now, but I will later so I can post it. Briefly it's about a man that went to prison for the rape and murder of a woman, and it wasn't discovered until many years later that he hadn't done it.

All evidence pointed to him, but he did not murder her. The real murderer came forward after God touched his heart.

The two sides of that coin to think about are these....the man that wasn't charged with her murder wasn't in prison but he never murdered again. He was so deeply impacted by God that he came forward and confessed. He did not have to do that, and in fact, the police weren't looking for anyone else because they were convinced they HAD the murderer. After all, a jury of his peers convicted him.

The true murderer would've never been caught if he hadn't come forward.

The man that was in prison lost years and years of his life behind bars. I read a book about this story and he became very bitter and his mental illness got worse and worse in there because he never received treatment or medication to control it.

I hope he made peace with God before he died, but I know at some point he didn't believe there even was a God because of what happened to him.

Considering both sides of the coin isn't even enough, because the fact remains that a girl was raped and murdered, and catching the person that did it (or not catching him as the case may be) will never bring her back.

 

[RND]

TAO, won't it be quite a sight in Heaven when David and Uriah meet again?

Or how about Stephen and Paul?

 

[TrustAndObey]

It has been proven time and time again that the death penalty is not a deterrent for murder. First of all, most murderers don't think they'll get CAUGHT.

I'll never endorse the death penalty.

I've been asked before if I'd feel differently about it if one of my own children were murdered by someone, and I can honestly say that I know killing their murderer would not bring my child back, so no, I wouldn't.

 

[NightEternal]

Forgiveness does not mean you avoid implementing the proper penalty. A child can be forgiven for breaking the lamp. He is still going to be spanked however.

At least Ted Bundy had the guts to say he deserved what was coming to him and that it was the right thing to put him down. I can respect that.

JCD: Do you deserve the punishment the state has inflicted upon you?

Ted: That’s a very good question. I don’t want to die; I won’t kid you. I deserve, certainly, the most extreme punishment society has. And I think society deserves to be protected from me and from others like me. That’s for sure.

http://www.pureintimacy.org/gr/intimacy/understanding/a0000082.cfm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcJuT-Sp4qU

We have been through this before.

We will not ever agree on this one, so let's not go through the motions of trying.

 

[RND]

Forgiveness does not mean you avoid implementing the proper penalty.

Did Jesus ever suggest employing the 'death penalty?'

 

[TrustAndObey]

TAO, won't it be quite a sight in Heaven when David and Uriah meet again?

Or how about Stephen and Paul?

Yeah, lol, if they come up at the same resurrection.

I'm a true optimist about most things, and I'd like to think in my heart that if someone like Uriah had not died and had survived the attack, that they would've already forgiven. I suppose murder in some cases could be a lot like drinking, and the person that committed it didn't know how much was "too much". There's always the "fatal blow" you know? What if they had stopped at the one right before it?

 

[NightEternal]

I'm outta this stupid conversation.

I have one who is and has been blatantly and rudely ignoring me for some reason or another and the other who somehow thinks I am going to swallow his bleeding heart liberalism and emasculated Christ.

I have better ways to spend my time than engaging in these useless exchanges.

C-ya.

 

[catlover]

It's not about vengeance, it's about justice. And the state has the God-given authourity to carry that out for the good of society, death penalty included.

Conklin is correct, it is the jury that passes the death sentence. But it is the state who carries out the penalty.

I should move to Texas. They have it right IMO.

YEEEEE-HAAAAWWW!

Number of Executions by State and Region Since 1976

LAST UPDATED September 28, 2007: FOLLOWING AN EXECUTIONS IN Texas​

Return to the Executions Information Page by Clicking HERE​

[SIZE=+1]1099[/SIZE]

EXECUTIONS TO DATE IN 2007 [SIZE=+1]41[/SIZE]

TOTAL EXECUTIONS IN 2006 [SIZE=+1]53[/SIZE]

TOTAL EXECUTIONS IN 2005 [SIZE=+1]60[/SIZE]

STATE TOTAL EXECUTIONS/EXECUTIONS IN 2007/EXECUTIONS IN 2006

TEXAS 405/26/24

VIRGINIA 98/0/4

OKLAHOMA 86/3/4

http://search.msn.com/images/results.aspx?q=texas+%22death+panalty%22+state&mkt=en-ca#focal=d08425a2606a9c958c5422a8fbc80f54&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deathpenaltyinfo.org%2Fexecutionmap2006.gif

The fact that Texas executed mentally retarded people is nothing to be proud of---at least Canada attempts to be civilized...this country can be archaic.

The fact that is costs more to execute a prisoner than to keep them in prison for life speaks volumes. M

However-my main question has to do with The Adventist view on the death penalty. Why should the state have the right to kill?

I know Adventism is not about natinalism...that is one strength I see in the denomination. There is no pie in the sky the government is rosey.

 

[djconklin]

It has been proven time and time again that the death penalty is not a deterrent for murder.

Actually, only God knows that. It has never neen proven that the death penalty is s deterrent--by that argument imprsionment has never been proven to be a penalty for any crime, should we then just give up and never punish anyone?

Even tho' my previous post has not been responded to I don't think that I am being ignored or that it was blatant and rude.

 

[catlover]

Forgiveness does not mean you avoid implementing the proper penalty. A child can be forgiven for breaking the lamp. He is still going to be spanked however.

At least Ted Bundy had the guts to say he deserved what was coming to him and that it was the right thing to put him down. I can respect that.

JCD: Do you deserve the punishment the state has inflicted upon you?

Ted: That’s a very good question. I don’t want to die; I won’t kid you. I deserve, certainly, the most extreme punishment society has. And I think society deserves to be protected from me and from others like me. That’s for sure.

http://www.pureintimacy.org/gr/intimacy/understanding/a0000082.cfm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcJuT-Sp4qU

We have been through this before.

We will not ever agree on this one, so let's not go through the motions of trying.

For every Bundy killed how many other serial killers are out there? It takes years and years to find them---yes there are people who are deplorable-disgusting their acts make me want to kill them but again--should the state have that power? How many people have been INNOCENTLY incarcerated because of shoddy police work????

 

[djconklin]

Why should the state have the right to kill?

Because God has given the state the right to protect its citizens from those who ignore the laws and prey on others.