What do you think?

[SilentNoMore]

So what happens when people donlt use contraception and the number of unwanted pregnancies goes up even higher? I mean people are going to keep having sex. Taking away contraception isnt likely to make the situation better if anything it would get far worse.

I disagree. Taking away contraception will make people think twice about having sex with someone that they could possibly create a new life with and have a connection with for the rest of their lives!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I have every right to protect the innocent children. My wife thinks the same, she is a woman so does that make you feel better. Talk about sexist.

you have every right to protect innocent children, sure. But, foetuses are not children, and you have no right to tell someone else what they can do with their body.

How incensed would you be if I tried to dictate what you allow into or out of your body? Would you like it? Would you think I had a right to do that?

Come on, you are killing someone by not donating a kidney. Do I have the right to demand you donate it? Do I have the right to call you a murderer if you don't? Of course not, because its YOUR body, and YOU get to decide what goes on inside it.

 

[SilentNoMore]

except that there has ALWAYS been abortion... even before there was effective contraception

There has always been sin since the fall of Adam and Eve...doesn't make it the right thing to do just because you can!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Ever heard of premeditated murder? Thinking about it and making a final decision after doesn't remove the truth of the sinfulness and the evil that is done. Instead of thinking if it would be right for you (or whoever) you should think whether or not this was God's plan? Is it ok for us to kill an innocent life?

how do you know that the abortion wasn't part of God's plan too?

Invoking "God's plan" as justification for your views seems iffy to me.

You mean its God's plan that 85% of all fertilised ova will abort naturally, but its NOT God's plan that a tiny minority of pregnancies will be aborted artificially?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I disagree. Taking away contraception will make people think twice about having sex with someone that they could possibly create a new life with and have a connection with for the rest of their lives!

ah, the good old "pregnancy as punishment for sex" argument. Because clearly there were never any bastards, abortions, or unwanted pregnancies before effective contraception

 

[Calliso]

I disagree. Taking away contraception will make people think twice about having sex with someone that they could possibly create a new life with and have a connection with for the rest of their lives!

It will make some people think twice not all though. Not to mention what about married couples who want to control the number of children they have but donlt want to completely stop having sex to do it?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

There has always been sin since the fall of Adam and Eve...doesn't make it the right thing to do just because you can!

that isn't the point. YOU were saying that removing contraception will somehow lead to people acting more along the lines you think they should.

History shows this is not the case.

 

[Calliso]

how do you know that the abortion wasn't part of God's plan too?

Invoking "God's plan" as justification for your views seems iffy to me.

You mean its God's plan that 85% of all fertilised ova will abort naturally, but its NOT God's plan that a tiny minority of pregnancies will be aborted artificially?

Exactly I mean if God was really soo against abortions and wanted all babies to live. I think he would start by making the womb a safer place. One could argue the womb is more dangerous to the baby then any abortion clinic! lol.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Exactly I mean if God was really soo against abortions and wanted all babies to live. I think he would start by making the womb a safer place. One could argue the womb is more dangerous to the baby then any abortion clinic! lol.

quite so.

I suspect that all the facts flying around here are unpleasant to those of an unconsidered emotional position on this issue, and we might not hear from them again for some time

 

[SilentNoMore]

how do you know that the abortion wasn't part of God's plan too?

Invoking "God's plan" as justification for your views seems iffy to me.

You mean its God's plan that 85% of all fertilised ova will abort naturally, but its NOT God's plan that a tiny minority of pregnancies will be aborted artificially?

People die everyday. Does that make it God's will to for us to murder people?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

People die everyday. Does that make it God's will to for us to murder people?

I don't know. Your the one invoking "God's plan" as though its something mere humans can effect. You tell me? Just seems to ME that if God has a specific plan, it would take more than something like a condom to derail it.

 

[SilentNoMore]

I don't know. Your the one invoking "God's plan" as though its something mere humans can effect. You tell me? Just seems to ME that if God has a specific plan, it would take more than something like a condom to derail it.

It does. It takes us making the decision to use the condom...

God created us with free will. That means we can choose to reject His will.

 

[SilentNoMore]

that isn't the point. YOU were saying that removing contraception will somehow lead to people acting more along the lines you think they should.

History shows this is not the case.

If you grow up in a society that accepts and even encourages the use of contraception (and premarital sex) as opposed to a society that rejects it and prohibits it, you come to believe that it is morally acceptable. But, just because the world says it is okay, doesn't mean God does.

 

[SilentNoMore]

ah, the good old "pregnancy as punishment for sex" argument. Because clearly there were never any bastards, abortions, or unwanted pregnancies before effective contraception

So...your arguement is that just because others chose sin, that makes it okay for everyone to?
pregnancy is not punishment for sex..
God created us with procreative properties. He designed us to have desires for sex so that ultimately we will procreate. Just as He designed us with desires to eat so that we can supply our bodies with the nutrients it needs to thrive. He did not design us with desires for the SOLE purpose of fulfilling the desires for their own sake, but for a specific purpose. When sin entered the world, our desires became disordered and hence we were born into original sin with inclinations and desires for things that are not God's will. Therefore, in order for us to do God's will (in which He has made known to men through His Son) we must not follow our "earthly desires" but despite how we feel we must do His will instead.

 

[Calliso]

If you grow up in a society that accepts and even encourages the use of contraception (and premarital sex) as opposed to a society that rejects it and prohibits it, you come to believe that it is morally acceptable. But, just because the world says it is okay, doesn't mean God does.

While I think you could argue God is against premarital sex no where in the bible does he seem to be against contraception. At least not clearly so.

 

[Calliso]

So...your arguement is that just because others chose sin, that makes it okay for everyone to?
pregnancy is not punishment for sex..
God created us with procreative properties. He designed us to have desires for sex so that ultimately we will procreate. Just as He designed us with desires to eat so that we can supply our bodies with the nutrients it needs to thrive. He did not design us with desires for the SOLE purpose of fulfilling the desires for their own sake, but for a specific purpose. When sin entered the world, our desires became disordered and hence we were born into original sin with inclinations and desires for things that are not God's will. Therefore, in order for us to do God's will (in which He has made known to men through His Son) we must not follow our "earthly desires" but despite how we feel we must do His will instead.

For me pregnancy would be a punishment . But I guess when God created me with sexual desires he forgot to include desire to have kids in there.

 

[jad123]

you have every right to protect innocent children, sure. But, foetuses are not children, and you have no right to tell someone else what they can do with their body.

How incensed would you be if I tried to dictate what you allow into or out of your body? Would you like it? Would you think I had a right to do that?

Come on, you are killing someone by not donating a kidney. Do I have the right to demand you donate it? Do I have the right to call you a murderer if you don't? Of course not, because its YOUR body, and YOU get to decide what goes on inside it.

I am not telling anyone what to do with their body. And the unborn are children and comparing a kidney to an unborn child is grotesque at best and ridiculous.

 

[SilentNoMore]

It will make some people think twice not all though. Not to mention what about married couples who want to control the number of children they have but donlt want to completely stop having sex to do it?

Natural Family Planning does not put a barrier between the woman and the man and does not aid in the killing of innocent life...it uses the cycle that God gave you to avoid pregnancy if so desired for a given amount of time...You only have to avoid from having sex for a few days out of the month and no new life has been formed. With BC it doesn't always stop ovulation from happening. It prevents the egg from being able to implant in the uterus. Talk about an unsafe enviornment....

Exactly I mean if God was really soo against abortions and wanted all babies to live. I think he would start by making the womb a safer place. One could argue the womb is more dangerous to the baby then any abortion clinic! lol.

The womb is a much safer place for a fetus than a trash can!
Our bodies and souls are corrupted by sin. That is why we suffer, and that is why we die. Adding more sin into the picture doesn't fix the problem but only adds to it! We can not escape suffering and we can not escape death...but we can look to Jesus (who is God's will in the flesh!) so that we can die to sin instead of having sin be the death of us!

 

[Calliso]

Natural Family Planning does not put a barrier between the woman and the man and does not aid in the killing of innocent life...it uses the cycle that God gave you to avoid pregnancy if so desired for a given amount of time...You only have to avoid from having sex for a few days out of the month and no new life has been formed. With BC it doesn't always stop ovulation from happening. It prevents the egg from being able to implant in the uterus. Talk about an unsafe enviornment....

The womb is a much safer place for a fetus than a trash can!
Our bodies and souls are corrupted by sin. That is why we suffer, and that is why we die. Adding more sin into the picture doesn't fix the problem but only adds to it! We can not escape suffering and we can not escape death...but we can look to Jesus (who is God's will in the flesh!) so that we can die to sin instead of having sin be the death of us!

Actually I have heard for some people they end up having to abstain from sex most of the time because their cycles are not normal. And I have heard far too many cases of unwanted pregnancies happening because people because they thought they were not fertile when they actually were. Not to mention it works by basically saying hey if you donlt want to get pregnant donlt have sex during the time the woman is going to most want it! Somehow that doesn;t seem fair. However I have no problem with those who want to use that method I personally donlt think it should be peoples only choice though other then no sex at all. Also I believe it is extremely rare that the bc pill even allows an egg to get fertilized in the first place.


And yeah the womb is a safer place then a trash can. I think the point was though that it isn;t as safe as some people seem to be claiming to seem to believe.

 

[SilentNoMore]

While I think you could argue God is against premarital sex no where in the bible does he seem to be against contraception. At least not clearly so.

And neither could you prove (in the Bible) many other things that Christians hold as Truth! Not everything is explicitly layed out in the Bible. Christians believe God is the Trinity, but that word nor its doctrine is explicitly layed out for us in the scriptures, but has been passed down to us through His Church!

The use of contraception, places a restraint on sex in that it reduces it to merely sensual pleasure. It no longer can produce the new life in which God created sex to do in the first place...What if you could create a pill that when taken it takes away the ability for your body to absorb vital nutrients in food? For this IS the reason we were created with the desire to eat, so that we can supply our body with nutrients. So when we eat, now it is solely for the pleasure of eating and our bodies are not receiving anything from it but pleasure...this is not God's will for us. This is not how He created us or designed us to be.