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Why creationism isn't scientific

peter22

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The essential problem with creationist theory is that most people are tricked into treating it like science when it's not, arguing about the fossil record or flood data and so on. By engaging with their discourse, we start to legitimise it. We should take a step back.

Karl Popper believed that scientific theories are never confirmed. Science does not proceed by means of theories being confirmed, but by means of arguments being falsified. E.g., my hypothesis is that all swans are white. An observation of a single non-white swan is enough to falsify this.

Any genuinely scientific theory must have empirically testable consequences.

The first problem with creationism is that it's not precisely stated: it's difficult to say exactly what we should observe given that creationism is true. It is hard to falsify, which suggests already that it is a bit 'fishy'.

More importantly, the method employed by creation 'scientists' is NOT to test their theory by trying to falsify it, rather almost all their energies are expended on trying to protect their theories from being falsified. New bits are being added ad hoc in order to account for what would otherwise be anomalous data.

Let's say I believe that (to steal an example) all house cats are Martian spies. The fact that cats have small brains, do not seem to be able to communicate telepathically or with technology and so on, is not a problem for me. Perhaps they do communicate telepathically, perhaps their brains are extraordinarily efficient...etc. By constantly adding to my theory, I shift the goals around enough so that it can never be falsified. In short, it's bad science, just like creationism.

[for additional reading, "The Philosophy Gym" by Stephen Law is a good start]
 

AV1611VET

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The essential problem with creationist theory is that most people are tricked into treating it like science when it's not, arguing about the fossil record or flood data and so on. By engaging with their discourse, we start to legitimise it. We should take a step back.

What do fossil records have to do with the Creation - (Genesis 1)?

The first problem with creationism is that it's not precisely stated: it's difficult to say exactly what we should observe given that creationism is true. It is hard to falsify, which suggests already that it is a bit 'fishy'.

Take this challenge, and see for yourself why it is so hard to falsify.

More importantly, the method employed by creation 'scientists' is NOT to test their theory by trying to falsify it, rather almost all their energies are expended on trying to protect their theories from being falsified.

The "problem" with "creation scientists" is that they go outside of Genesis 1 in explaining the Creation. If they keep their clipboards where they belong (i.e. in Genesis 1), they'll have absolutely no problem explaining the Creation.

Even you fell for their nonsense --- bringing up fossils in the same context as the Creation Week.
 
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Naraoia

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Even you fell for their nonsense --- bringing up fossils in the same context as the Creation Week.
But fossils do belong in the same context as the Creation Week, because supposedly the "kinds" they represent were created in six days in a certain order. The fossil record (together with radioisotope dating) outright contradicts Genesis 1 in more than one way. The appearance of major groups spans far more than six days, and they also seem to appear in the wrong order.
 
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AV1611VET

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But fossils do belong in the same context as the Creation Week, because supposedly the "kinds" they represent were created in six days in a certain order. The fossil record (together with radioisotope dating) outright contradicts Genesis 1 in more than one way. The appearance of major groups spans far more than six days, and they also seem to appear in the wrong order.

Show me a fossil record (or even a fossil) in Genesis 1, Naraoia. Let's not mix two doctrines here - (Creation 101 and Thanatology 101). Using death to explain the Creation is like using a junkyard to explain the first car ever built.
 
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gamespotter10

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What do fossil records have to do with the Creation - (Genesis 1)?



Take this challenge, and see for yourself why it is so hard to falsify.



The "problem" with "creation scientists" is that they go outside of Genesis 1 in explaining the Creation. If they keep their clipboards where they belong (i.e. in Genesis 1), they'll have absolutely no problem explaining the Creation.

Even you fell for their nonsense --- bringing up fossils in the same context as the Creation Week.
AV1611VET, your theory is not science because it is not falsifiable
 
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AV1611VET

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Molal

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Creationism is a religion. Nothing to do with science whatsoever since it is not falsifiable (a disadvantage at best) and it has no predictive ability over the natural world.

Creationism is a poor attempt at biblical interpretation. And corrupts the theological message.
 
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gamespotter10

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No kidding? I've only been saying that for what; a year and a half?



I view that as a strength, not a weakness. God will not be found using conventional man-made tools or methods.
falsifiability is an EXTREMELY important part of science. your theory is pseudoscience for its unfalsifiability
 
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AV1611VET

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Creationism is a religion. Nothing to do with science whatsoever since it is not falsifiable (a disadvantage at best) and it has no predictive ability over the natural world.

Creationism is a poor attempt at biblical interpretation. And corrupts the theological message.

You need a Defender's Study Bible. Henry Morris attributes many Theological errors to a wrong interpretation of Genesis 1. So does Ken Ham. In fact, that's why my wife and I stopped watching James Dobson's stuff early in our Christian lives. We found out he believed the first 11 chapters of Genesis to be an allegory.
 
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gamespotter10

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AV1611VET

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falsifiability is an EXTREMELY important part of science. your theory is pseudoscience for its unfalsifiability

If you think there's any science at all behind what happened in Genesis 1, then I double-dare you to take my Apple Challenge.
 
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gamespotter10

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If you think there's any science at all behind what happened in Genesis 1, then I double-dare you to take my Apple Challenge.
your apple challenge is simply some sort of what-if scenario trying to explain away your inability to make a case for a literal creation
 
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AV1611VET

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Molal

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You need a Defender's Study Bible. Henry Morris attributes many Theological errors to a wrong interpretation of Genesis 1. So does Ken Ham. In fact, that's why my wife and I stopped watching James Dobson's stuff early in our Christian lives. We found out he believed the first 11 chapters of Genesis to be an allegory.
Thank you for your suggestion AV; however, after lots of research on the subject I will stick to the fundamental Jewish interpretation.

It appears that creationism is a recent phenomena based upon the worry that accompanies trying to interpret bibilical text; therefore, literality enables one to completely ignore interpretation.
 
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AV1611VET

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your apple challenge is simply some sort of what-if scenario trying to explain away your inability to make a case for a literal creation

Then answer it --- show me I'm wrong. I'm not interested in what you think of it, or what you think why I made it up. I just want someone to answer it.

(I don't know if you realize this or not; but it actually agrees with you that creation is unscientific.)
 
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AV1611VET

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did you even read the [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] link?

Actually no --- I didn't read the wash-your-mouth link. I did go there though, and saw Genesis 1 vs Science, and that was all I cared to see.
 
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gamespotter10

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Then answer it --- show me I'm wrong. I'm not interested in what you think of it, or what you think why I made it up. I just want someone to answer it.

(I don't know if you realize this or not; but it actually agrees with you that creation is unscientific.)
your "challenge" is not valid because ex nihilo creations make no predictions. in order for your theory to be accepted as a valid scientific theory, it must have evidence, it needs to make predictions. creationism makes no predictions, and it has no evidence. IT IS NOT SCIENCE, so stop pretending that it is.
 
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AV1611VET

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Thank you for your suggestion AV; however, after lots of research on the subject I will stick to the fundamental Jewish interpretation.

How non-denominational of you.
 
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AV1611VET

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your "challenge" is not valid because ex nihilo creations make no predictions. in order for your theory to be accepted as a valid scientific theory, it must have evidence, it needs to make predictions. creationism makes no predictions, and it has no evidence. IT IS NOT SCIENCE, so stop pretending that it is.

I guarantee you, Gamspotter, you're preaching to the choir here. I have always contended that Creation Science is a contradiction in terms; and my Apple Challenge proves it.
 
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