No Physical Difference Between the Geocentric Model and the Modern Heliocentric View

[RichardT]

(or satan, that is the Islamic view of nasty bits in the Koran)

Lol. You serious? Do you know where I can find people who believe this? (link?)

 

[NailsII]

Lol. You serious? Do you know where I can find people who believe this? (link?)

i read it in 'god is not great' by christopher hitchens. He states that there are verses in the koran out of context with the rest, and islamic scholars belive that muhammed may have been talking to satan masquarding as god.
This is also part of the premise behind salman rushdies' contoversial book 'satanic verses' that caused outrage a few years ago. I havn't read it though, so i cannot back that claim up with any authority.

 

[RichardT]

i read it in 'god is not great' by christopher hitchens. He states that there are verses in the koran out of context with the rest, and islamic scholars belive that muhammed may have been talking to satan masquarding as god.
This is also part of the premise behind salman rushdies' contoversial book 'satanic verses' that caused outrage a few years ago. I havn't read it though, so i cannot back that claim up with any authority.

Well, OK. Rushdies is seen as a heretic from non liberal muslims.


His fourth novel, The Satanic Verses (1988), provoked violent reactions from Muslims in several countries.[citation needed] Faced with death threats and a fatwa (religious edict) issued by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, then Supreme Leader of Iran, which called for him to be killed, he spent nearly a decade largely underground, appearing in public only sporadically. In June 2007, he was appointed a Knight Bachelor for "services to literature"[1], which "thrilled and humbled" him.[2] The announcement met with disapproval from some Muslim nations and communities,[3] with some claiming that it "may spark terrorism".[4] In 2007, he began a five-year term as Distinguished Writer in Residence at Emory University.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie

 

[lemmings]

Stellar parallax has not been solved, RichardT. The following 4 pictures represent the differences between a geocentric and heliocentric universe after 6 months. In the geocentric Universe the stars’ relative positions to each other have not changed and will not produce a parallax.

Image not to scale.
Blue dot = the Earth
Yellow dot = the Sun
Red dot = the Star that we are measuring
Green and purple dots= extremely distant stars which have smaller parallaxes.
Black circle is around the center of the Universe.

 

[NailsII]

Well, OK. Rushdies is seen as a heretic from non liberal muslims.

The interesting thing in the book is about the fatwa, it claims that the ayatolla was under pressure for strong leadership after having to accept a UN intervention in the war with Iraq, despite pledging some months earlier he would rather drink poison.
Also, a small african state threatened to kill Rushdie if he attended a book conference.
Iran just went one better, by offering anyone who did kill him eternal salvation.

 

[Maxwell511]

Having to admit defeat and state that earth centered system is simply some useless non-inertial reference frame, where the earth would still orbit the sun would make me feel like a biblical skeptic, that is off limits to me. I believe the bible.

Can you at least admit that the earth rotates around its own axis?

 

[LeeC]

Having to admit defeat and state that earth centered system is simply some useless non-inertial reference frame, where the earth would still orbit the sun would make me feel like a biblical skeptic, that is off limits to me. I believe the bible.

Why do you believe the bible? If what it describes (certainly in the physical sense for the Earth and Sun) is WRONG?

Could you just not accept this part of the bible as "myth"? Maybe not inspired by God - just a few men around a campfire talking about the world?

Or maybe, this part of the bible was just “misunderstood” when God spoke to them? Actually – where in Genesis does it say God spoke to the writer of this bible book at all? It is not described is it? So the writer could just be making it up?

So, give up Genesis 1 and you could still believe the rest of it if you like?

Lee
PS
So what would make you stop believing in the bible?

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

I want to state that I haven't rejected Geocentricity, I will try to work around the difficulties. I have also not rejected creationism (don't plan on anytime soon). We share multitudes of ERVs with chimpanzees (although not in PtERV1 and PtERV2, which contain hundreds of insertion points that are specific only to chimpanzees). I will work around the difficulties and try to figure (or read about and understand) working mechanisms for what we observe (I've heard of the hot spots in the genome explanation, I haven't studied it much though). It is possible that I reject the Modified Tycho Brahe System.

Having to admit defeat and state that earth centered system is simply some useless non-inertial reference frame, where the earth would still orbit the sun would make me feel like a biblical skeptic, that is off limits to me. I believe the bible.

What you believe in when you read the bible is not the word of god, but the word of men. Men who knew very little of the natural world compared to what we know today.

It’s interesting you will believe men from two millennia ago but not well educated people of today, I mean you have an easy get out clause, god is speaking through scientists, because for the human race to survive we need science.

The world is not the centre of the universe just as a ship at sea is not at the centre of the ocean, even though it always looks that way from an observer on the ship, i.e. the horizon is always the same distance in every direction.

 

[theFijian]

Having to admit defeat and state that earth centered system is simply some useless non-inertial reference frame, where the earth would still orbit the sun would make me feel like a biblical skeptic, that is off limits to me. I believe the bible.

Or you could wake up and realise that the Bible wasn't intended as a modern astronomy textbook. (this doesn't make you a skeptic)

 

[Brennin]

Papers Proving that there is no Physical Difference Between the Geocentric Model and the Modern Heliocentric View

1. Barbour and Bertotti, 1977. Il Nuovo Cimento B, 38:1.
2. Brown, G. B., 1955. Proceedings of the Phys. Soc. B, 68:672.
3. Thirring, H., 1916. Phys. Z. 19:33.
4. Lense, J. & Thirring, H., 1918, Ibid. 22:29.
5. Gerber, P., 1898. Zeitschr. f. Math. u. Physik, 43:93.
6. Møller, C., 1952. The Theory of Relativity, (Oxford: Clarendon Press), pp. 318-321.
7. Moon, P. & Spencer, D. E., 1959. Philos. of Science, 26:125.
8. Rosser, W. G. V., 1964. An Intro. to the Theory of Relativity, (London: Butterworths), p. 460.

For rotation see: P. F. Browne, 1977. "Relativity of Rotation," Jrnl. of Physics A: Math. & Gen. Relativity, 10:727.​

These papers just scratch the surface. They led Sir Fred Hoyle, who was knighted for his cosmological expertise, to proclaim: "We know that the difference between a heliocentric theory and a geocentric theory is one of relative motion only, and that such a difference has no physical significance."
— Sir Fred Hoyle in Astronomy and Cosmology, 1975, p. 416.



http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/refs.html

I realize fundamentalism entails going back to the halcyon days of yore; I just would not have pegged them as the 15th century.

 

[Gracchus]

I think RichardT is a troll. I hope he's a troll. If RichardT is not a troll, then the average IQ of Americans has been overestimated by about 40 points.

In any case, the geocentric model of the universe is physically different from the universe recognized by mainstream science. RichardT's model has the stars and galaxies orbiting the sun. Despite their differing distances, they all complete their orbits every 24 hours. They are accelerated by an unknown force to superluminal speeds, operating through an undemonstrated medium, "ether".

 

[Nathan Poe]

Having to admit defeat and state that earth centered system is simply some useless non-inertial reference frame, where the earth would still orbit the sun would make me feel like a biblical skeptic, that is off limits to me. I believe the bible.

There you have it -- facts and truth are irrelevent to you. You must believe Geocentricism because you're afraid God will smite you if you don't.

 

[theFijian]

There you have it -- facts and truth are irrelevent to you. You must believe Geocentricism because you're afraid God will smite you if you don't.

What is near impossible to get through to some Creationists is that while they are a product of the 20th/21st century, the Bible and those who first read it were not.

 

[RichardT]

I think RichardT is a troll. I hope he's a troll. If RichardT is not a troll, then the average IQ of Americans has been overestimated by about 40 points.

In any case, the geocentric model of the universe is physically different from the universe recognized by mainstream science. RichardT's model has the stars and galaxies orbiting the sun. Despite their differing distances, they all complete their orbits every 24 hours. They are accelerated by an unknown force to superluminal speeds, operating through an undemonstrated medium, "ether".

Go away.

 

[Atheuz]

Go away.

Well you better have something to back up insane ideas like 'Plenum Ether' pulling stars at superliminal speeds before you start seeing them as viable theories.

 

[RichardT]

Well you better have something to back up insane ideas like 'Plenum Ether' pulling stars at superliminal speeds before you start seeing them as viable theories.

http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/ft.html

Quantum grains seen as planck particles. I haven't studied this much though, but I trust Dr. Bouw. When LoudMouth told me that Stellar Parallax was impossible in any Geocentric coordinate system, It turned out that he was wrong.

 

[Atheuz]

http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/ft.html

Quantum grains seen as planck particles. I haven't studied this much though, but I trust Dr. Bouw. When LoudMouth told me that Stellar Parallax was impossible in any Geocentric coordinate system, It turned out that he was wrong.

How fun, I trust Einstein more.

 

[Gracchus]

I think RichardT is a troll. I hope he's a troll. If RichardT is not a troll, then the average IQ of Americans has been overestimated by about 40 points.

In any case, the geocentric model of the universe is physically different from the universe recognized by mainstream science. RichardT's model has the stars and galaxies orbiting the sun. Despite their differing distances, they all complete their orbits every 24 hours. They are accelerated by an unknown force to superluminal speeds, operating through an undemonstrated medium, "ether".

Go away.

That has to be the most flattering thing you have said to anyone on this forum!

 

[Loudmouth]

http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/ft.html

Quantum grains seen as planck particles. I haven't studied this much though, but I trust Dr. Bouw. When LoudMouth told me that Stellar Parallax was impossible in any Geocentric coordinate system, It turned out that he was wrong.

I meant that the observed stellar parallax is impossible in any geocentric coordinate system that does not invent ad hoc and unevidenced ethers to explain away it's shortcomings.

 

[Phred]

http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/ft.html

Quantum grains seen as planck particles. I haven't studied this much though, but I trust Dr. Bouw. When LoudMouth told me that Stellar Parallax was impossible in any Geocentric coordinate system, It turned out that he was wrong.

So we launch satellites into space and they come to a sudden halt in order to be geostationary? Gravity ceases to have any effect upon them? They just hang there? You're truly a great creationist.

The earth orbits around the sun just like the other planets that we can SEE orbiting the sun. The sun orbits the center of the galaxy and other galaxies do NOT orbit the earth. This fanciful nonsense is beyond reason and beyond stupidity. I find it hard to believe that 278... now 279 posts have been placed in this thread. The ramblings of ancient nomads do NOT overrule Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler or the host of others that came after them.

You trust Dr. Bowwow... who cares?